To think specialist schools can't always offer more than mainstream?

[BKCRMP]

My DD is in the naming schools stage of her EHCP. Mine of the specialist schools are particularily appropriate. Not ASD enough for the ASD schools, the SEMH schools not appropriate, doesn't have a learning disability for the generic schools. Wouldn't receive 1-1 within specialist. Would be expected to follow the class within specialist.

Or she can stay in mainstream with her dedicated 1-1 who can entirely differentiate her learning. Can keep her safe. OT and SALT support provided within school. She actually seems to be able to receive the more individualized, adaptive support that she needs within mainstream.

AIBU that specialists can't always provide more and for some children mainstream can actually give them more?

I think you're right. There is no one solution for children with complex needs. However, from the perspective of having a 'runner', DD1 went from preschool with 1:1 support, often running, to Special School without exclusive support. The reason they could do that is that the school had CCTV and radios. They could afford to let DD1 run, because she was on a secure site with nowhere to go. So she gradually learned that running didn't actually mean anything.

Similarly, now she's at secondary, the site is secure (well, except when she climbed the fence, but there were staff to notice it), there is CCTV, and at break time they have staff manning the playground.

You do need to find the right environment, and generally the special school population tends to be 75% boys, although DD1 is in a 50/50 mix in her current class.

Whuch county are you?
She s year o ne with 3 to 1 support at times...doesnt seem like she accessing much efucation ?
Depends on child and school.
Lookkng ahead maybe something like
www.macintyrecharity.org/for-children/macintyre-school/

@itsgettingweird sendiass sent a list which I think included both. Certainly haven't found any others through asking on the local send groups that aren't in the list.

Primary need is SLC as she has a severe speech disorder. The secondary is both ASD and SEMH. Third/Fourth is multi-sensory impairment.

Our LA has only just branched into units being attached to mainstreams. The ideal would be a SLC one but our nearest is 3 hours away.

It's very soul destroying :( We don't actually know if she is academically capable or not and I'm very conscious of her speech being deceptive for her ability and not wanting to write her off. She couldn't tolerate any form of testing by the ed psych.

I'm nervous to rock the boat. I know her school has the right attitude and the right nurture and I know they will keep her safe and not use restraint or isolation rooms but she isn't accessing learning :(

Have you had independent assessments made? I think you would find that an independent assessment by an ed psych at least would give you a better assessment of needs and so a better idea of what placement is required. There was no comparison between LA Ed Psych (we got the most senior one because I'm known to be difficult ) report and the independent one we commissioned.

School has to be about learning, developing, thriving and meeting potential for the school to be meeting needs. If it's just survival of each day...they aren't meeting needs. It's really tough. Things may get better or they may get worse. We're year 5 now and things are so much clearer but doesn't make it any easier.

If she is often 2:1 or 3:1 then sorry to say but she won't last long in mainstream and she will be more suited to a SEN school

Google section 41 schools in your area. Check the schools that come up are on your list.

If SCL is primary need I'd be looking for schools that have onsite speech therapists. Because realistically until this skill can be worked in for her and a good assessment of where she is the academic side of it will always be an issue.

Have you had assessment for alternative and augmentative communication (AAC). Look and see if your la has specialist teacher advisors for this. They should be assessing her. Perhaps if she can communicate her needs she won't need to run.

It's so hard and isn't easy but I've found by working on one area at a time or the main need then the others seem to fall into place easier.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/independent-special-schools-and-colleges

How much speech therapy does your dd receive in school? Who delivers it? Do you think it's enough? In special school dd would have seen the SALT once each half term and therapy would have been delivered by TAs. In specialist the SALTs are in her class twice a week for the full day so a huge difference in what is available depending on placement.

Her mainstream have been amazing with her but it's taking huge amounts of resources and I've been told they would be within their rights to say they can no longer meet need but they also agree that there is nowhere else really suitable for her.

Section F of her EHCP should be very specific and quantified. No fluffy comments like “would benefit from “ or “small group work” etc. If she needs 1:1 for the Whole school day it should state 1:1. The provision in section F should reflect the outcomes in section B.

Whatever is written in section the school should provide and the LA should fund.

Can you move house to be nearer the scl school? Would you consider weekly boarding?
Does she have speech?
Is her behaviour her only communication?
Have you looked at ABA?

written in section F

http://search3.openobjects.com/kb5/lincs/fsd/results.page?services=7&supporting=6&familychannel=120544_3

My own son has a very robust EHCP. Loads of therapies written in. Speech therapy, music therapy, OT etc. His placement is ridiculously expensive, over £150k a year but the difference in him after one year there is unbelievable.

@hiredandsqueak. She gets half termly reviews by NHS SALT. Daily input by her 1-1. Her school also hire their own private SALT who she sees alternate weeks.

The EP and SALT have both specified those working closest need to have experience and qualifications in children with her speech difficulties. I think her senco suggested asking for a PB if she stays there to fund more sessions with their private SALT.

Her EP report is actually surprisingly good, the LA had to commission a private EP to meet timescale and it shows in the report compared to other LA ones I've seen locally recently.

The big question not answered is she's not very specific over environment but the EP has said that it's because she is so sensitive to her environment I need to work out what school/environment would be most suitable and she will amend.

We did a private OT report which has been a massive help.

I want to look into therapies to help with anxiety.

I think the reason the school have been so good with her is because it's clear as day that her behaviours are communication that she can't express rather than pushing boundaries.

I'd definitely be asking about aac.

Have a look yourself at things like PODD books, pecs, makaton signing, and prologue and other speech systems on iPads.

Our toughest period for DS came when he was in year 3, because of his complex needs he had a complicated daily timetable to specialist support meaning he was out of the classroom for large chunks of the day - a lot of time in the afternoon during “fun” lessons.

It transpired that this was all too much for him. Although we where doing all the bits of therapy various agencies asked for we realised that for his development we needed to take a step back and let him spend more time in the classroom with his peers (with 1-1) rather than keeping taking him out for various interventions.

DC1 was happily mainstream schooled until he was 7. Then it all went downhill, very very quickly.

He is now 11, in a specialist school for 3 years.

I regret insisting he was mainstream schooled for so long, because they just didn't have the specialist training he needed, despite the best will in the world of the staff.

As a teacher myself, I know it does have a big impact.

The transition from EYFS to Year 1 can be a very big one. Does the school go straight to formal learning? If it does, or even if more formal elements are integrated in, this can be tricky for children with SLC needs. At the mainstream school I teach at this happened with a child who we were able to support well through nursery and reception with 1:1 or 2:1 support.

whilst SS are saying she's too academic it's rather a moot point as right now she isn't accessing education.
Which is all very well but in a generic LD school she'd be accessing education that she possibly already knew, and they often "don't do behaviour", and if she's likely to feel even less safe in the SEMH boy-heavy school that's no help either.

I think you are absolutely right that "special" does not automatically mean "right" for your dd. What you have to look for is a school that can meet BOTH academic and social & behavioural needs for your child. For ds1 this meant an independent specialist school because there was no local authority provision that could cope both with his academic needs (he is bright) and behavioural needs (high anxiety and a lamentable tendency to throw chairs in the classroom at a young age - luckily no longer). Because he was lucky enough to get the support when he needed it he has been able to rejoin mainstream school for sixth form and has a good future. Don't dismiss special school as an option just make sure it is the right special school - they are definitely not all equally as good for a child with your dd's profile.

I really regret my daughter’s mainstream primary experience. She’s totally damaged by it.

If there are doubts about mainstream as early as year one, you need to give serious consideration to the special and specialist options. Or maybe a bespoke package of education ‘out of school’.

OP, I think you're doing the right thing casting a wider net before making a decision just in case you've missed somewhere that would be perfect for her.

For example, my disabled DC are much older (mid-late teens) and the mainstream college I've named for DD for this Sept would never in a million years have been on my radar as a good option for her SEN. It was only because DS, who's a year older (also with SEN and an EHCP), has spent a year there and I've had first-hand experience of how inclusive, supportive and knowledgeable the staff (including regular teaching staff) are about ASD, sensory issues, disability, etc.

What actually happened was that the SENCO from the college (who knew DD was struggling and her current awful school were trying to off-roll her) called me a few months ago to ask whether we'd thought about September and whether they might be able to support her. I had actually made the decision at that point to withdraw her and homeschool her this Sept because her current school were working so hard to off-roll her and it had become so unpleasant that I was ready to give up the legal fight so as not to damage her self-esteem any further (she knew they didn't want her there and every communication from them felt hostile, which was obviously awful for her). So I had a loooong talk with this college SENCO about her needs and the problems she was having at her current school, and the flexibility of this college (and all the things that weren't obvious from their website/ofsted) made me realise I'd overlooked the perfect choice for her.

I've always found calling and having a chat with the SENCO is always hugely illuminating in terms of their reaction to your DC's needs and EHCP - I've been immediately reassured by the ones who say "oh, that's no problem, we have several students with similar needs and we have x provision for that and spaces set up if they need some time out, etc" and others often betray their views of what a ballache SEN support can be through their offhand comments when they're just making conversation. My three DC have been bumped around a lot because of their SEN and we've had some absolutely terrible SENCOs and two amazing ones.

I realise this has nothing to do with special schools but I just wonder whether there are any more suitable mainstream settings you might have overlooked like I did.

Most secondary schools follow a model of inclusion that does not support 1:1.

Your daughter will be entitled to support for the number of hours as set out in her EHCP but this will not be one dedicated person. It will be different Leaning Support Assistants/TA.

Independence is the main drive in secondary school and so if TA’s are sick then there is no budget to get a cover one in - and your daughter will just be expected to get on.

Secondary schools are brutal. In my opinion, if you have the choice either go for special first and then move to secondary later or go to a secondary with an ASD resource. Do not just go into mainstream. I ran an amazing Learning Support department with amazing staff but I couldn’t sheiks people against the budgets and staffing issues.

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