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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

MIL feels attacked

335 replies

Rennlau · 24/08/2020 15:11

My OH and I are in a bit of predicament with my OH's mum/my MIL.

I could go on and on in regard to backstory, but I'll try and keep it brief and then on to the most recent issues.

Our DS is 6m old, he is our first and was born 6 weeks before lockdown, we have been getting pressured by MIL since I was a few days postpartum to have him overnight, this has not and will not be happening anytime soon, covid or not, but I was pretty distressed by her doing this when I had only had him days earlier and was just getting to know him aswell as myself in my new role as a mother ~BUT~ I did not assert myself and just kinda white-noised her then cried once she had left. She has not let the issue of having DS overnight or on her own (what is the obsession of separating mother from child?) even though this isn't an option due to covid and also neither my ds or I are ready for that. She is also pretty relentless telling us what to do and trying to get us to raise our DS the way she did my OH again white-noise, smile and nod. My partner and I are very much on the same page and have been trying to be as diplomatic as possible whilst walking on eggshells so as not to rock the boat - his parents are the only grandparents and we have both not wanted to do anything that could result in our son being isolated from them, but his mum is incredibly domineering and can be volatile.

In regard to lockdown it actually done my partner and I a world of good in the sense of allowing us some distance, relieving us of MIL pressure. We have become a pretty solid and harmonious family unit and have really got to find our feet as parents, we know how we wish to raise our son and even though he is a lockdown baby he is a pretty self assured and confident baby.

As lockdown rules have began to ease, my MIL has been able to now visit our DS and to hold him (she requested to see him in person countless times during lockdown, but had not been socially distancing so we did not want to risk it) and this is where things have went awry. She put my child's hand in her mouth, like full on in her mouth. It was just her and I in the room when she done it the first time, I was totally aghast and taken disgusted, regardless if there was a pandemic going on or not, I am not okay with her doing this. I have struggled to assert myself with MIL, but thankfully in this instance my motherly instincts took over and I told her to stop and I then took DS to washed his hands, I thought that would be that. It wasn't she has done it a further three times, the second time was the next time she visited and she done it when I left the room in front of my OH who had the same reaction as had previously. The final time she did it we were in her shop and in front of one of her employees, I instinctively said no hands in mouths and my partner took DS away to wash his hands. This was also the same day she allowed said employee to touch my DS's face and then asked if she would like to hold my son!! Again, my partner was not present (in bathroom) and I had to pipe up and say no, my MIL then started laughing. To clarify, covid is not the sole reason I am uncomfortable with having my son passed around. My oh and I both feel it's important to respect his personal space/autonomy and to teach consent as second nature, but I didn't feel that that was the time or place to get into it, however we have tried to be as informative as possible prior to this instance (whilst walking on eggshells) about our parenting style/choices while giving some grace for people (MIL) to acclimate, she has ignored everything to date.

After the last incident, my partner I decided our eggshell tactic was not working and we had to advocate for DS and set some clear boundaries. We decided to start with one boundary at a time and address what happened with DS's personal space, then if/when she oversteps other boundaries in the future clearly address it then and there rather than rehash/bring up everything in a one(y). I should probably note my MIL has zero regard for anyone's boundaries and it's something my OH has struggled with inti adulthood.

MIL visited us last Sunday and nearing the end of the visit we brought up what happened when I stopped her employee from holding my son, we explained it was not covid alone that prevented this from happening that we were not okay with our DS being passed around in any circumstances and tried to explain why, we were sensitive about our wording to make sure she did not feel attacked. To put it simply she went off her head. She began by being very patronising, tried to turn it around on me (just me) and then began yelling (at me) but I'm front of DS (OH and I have never yelled in front of him) so I finally asserted myself and told her to either stop yelling in front of my child or she had leave my home, my partner also stepped in and she left, yelling as she went.

She messaged my partner a couple of days later saying I attacked her, he defended me, reiterating the situation and I think gave her some home truths which probably didn't help, but on the other hand was probably needed. We have heard nothing since and honestly I have no desire to see or speak to her, but worry I am doing a disservice to my son, but don't know what to do if she won't respect us or our wishes as his parents, I fell that would be a bigger disservice to DS? I also have zero desire to come between my partner and his mother and I have told him that.

The worst part is, if she has an issue with us, which now does then she will go out her way for the full family to also have an issue.

I really don't know what to do going forward.

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 25/08/2020 16:31

What point would that be?

peachgreen · 25/08/2020 17:00

Well, I'm going to eat my words and apologise OP because I've just gone and actually read about RIE parenting and not only does it make a lot of sense, I've actually unconsciously been following their principles myself! I think people read that someone is following a particular "school" of parenting and instantly getting a particular idea in their head but actually many of them may well be parenting on a similar way without realising it. I suspect a lot of the detractors on this thread - myself included - have no idea what RIE parenting even is and would actually support a lot of its principles if they did know. So I apologise OP for calling your ideas daft. I should have done some research first and not jumped to conclusions. Learning about RIE parenting has actually been a very interesting and validating experience for me as it has backed up a lot of my own instinctive parenting techniques.

BruceAndNosh · 25/08/2020 17:22

I think all the people who think it's absolutely fine to put your saliva over the hands of a baby who is not a member of your household during a pandemic are the batshit ones.
Not the OP

Newfornow · 25/08/2020 18:07

Yanbu about overnight visits, however, I think you will change your mind in the future when a night away Is a much deserved treat once in a while. Keep an open mind.
I agree on the hand in mouth too. That’s just plain weird.
Passing baby round is a personal choice. Some parents don’t mind. In some cultures it is weird to be so possessive. However I get that covid changes things.
Finally I can tell this is your first born. Relax. Enjoy.
I did eye roll at teaching personal space and consent. If I heard that in RL about a newborn I couldn’t keep a straight face, it sounds so aloof and quote ridiculous.

Newfornow · 25/08/2020 18:11

RIE principles only work If your child is motivated . Many need guidance and encouragement.
I could also call this lazy actually.

Kid wants to explore the wonders of tv and gaming all week. I m following RIE principles so won’t impede their efforts. BS

LuaDipa · 25/08/2020 18:30

Op, it doesn’t matter what anyone, including mil, thinks of your parenting choices. As long as your baby is safe, happy, fed and warm you get to bring dc up however you like.

My instinct is that you might be a tiny bit pfb (not a criticism, we have all been there) but mil is completely batshit and puts you and oh completely on the defensive with her ridiculous ideas of newborn sleepovers and slobbering all over the child’s hands. Luckily both you and oh are on the same side, and yours are the only opinions that matter. Stand your ground now. It will only get worse if you don’t.

GhostCurry · 25/08/2020 18:49

You’re a class act peachgreen!

Yes it’s a very instinctive way of parenting, some of the concepts just need pointing out as they might not occur to everyone, but once you are aware of it, it’s really easy to incorporate into daily life.

And I disagree with other posters. You can get a nappy change wrong. Super speedy “efficient” changes where the kid is manhandled are the reason why so many babies and toddlers hate having their nappies changed. I used to like taking our time, it also meant that the nappy area got air to it for more than 30 seconds a day.

peachgreen · 25/08/2020 19:13

@Newfornow Considering RIE principles ban screens for the first two years at least I suspect kids raised this way are less likely to be screen obsessed (I definitely didn't follow this particular principle myself - DD is a CBeebies fan!) but I agree as kids get older it might need adjusting to ensure they're exposed to a range of activities. I don't think it's fair to call it lazy though - it's not about leaving them to it, it's about actively following their lead rather than directing play. Although there is an element of allowing children to play independently but in my opinion, we could all do with being given permission to do this more often. There's so much pressure on parents these days to provide constant stimulation to our children and it's not sustainable.

@GhostCurry Classier would have been not jumping to conclusions in the first place but hopefully I've learnt my lesson on that one!

Nanny0gg · 25/08/2020 22:52

Although there is an element of allowing children to play independently but in my opinion, we could all do with being given permission to do this more often.

Blimey, I must have got it right 40 years ago as I thought that was 'normal' parenting.

I always made sure my DC could manage to entertain themselves without needing me hovering over or directing what they did.

God, I hate all these bloody labels!

macaroniinapot · 25/08/2020 23:14

1 in 20 kids are abused in the UK, I hope by doing what I am doing now that it somehow protects him

He's 6 months old. At what point do you think the strong understanding of consent you've instilled in him will protect him from a sex offender, who by definition will be at least 18, statistically older?

Are children who were passed around a lot as babies more likely to be the victim of a sex crime in later life?

Listen to yourself. On the off chance this isn't a wind up, you really need to stop being so idealistic and just parent. You're a new parent to a 6 month old, you don't need to be lecturing anyone on your 'style' of parenting.

Your MIL is bang out of order and I was in complete agreement with you until the paragraph about not wanting him held. COVID is reason enough. But coming out with that spiel will have scuppered any chance of your MIL understanding your point of view.

peachgreen · 26/08/2020 00:05

@Nanny0gg That's my point exactly - a lot of it is just common sense given a label.

alexdgr8 · 26/08/2020 00:55

your MIL doesn't need to understand your point of view.
you are busy bringing up baby, not running a seminar.
if she was interested, she'd find out.
just stand up for yourself. don't waste energy attention on MIL.
i wonder why some pp are going on at you so much, sounds defensive to me. doesn't matter. ignore detractors, at home or on here.
good luck to you n yours.
give the little fellow a kiss from me, on top of head, and no hands of course.

SBTLove · 26/08/2020 01:05

it's important to respect his personal space/autonomy and to teach consent as second nature
Ffs when you think you’ve laughed at everything 🙄
RIE parenting? aye ok dokey

Emeraldshamrock · 26/08/2020 01:26

Yanbu with your decision to avoid others to hold the baby if there wasn't a pandemic it would be okay. My DC are older I don't want anyone outside this home touching them or handing them sweets, I wouldn't hold a family members baby in these strange times.
Forget the sleepover too. Your MIL is very forceful.

seayork2020 · 26/08/2020 01:33

I have to admit to being a little confused people managed to successfully raise children well before parenting styles and I presume there are as many parenting styles as parents out there?

newmum2999 · 26/08/2020 01:40

Hmm, OP. I think you need to seriously think about the way you're behaving.

If anything, putting his hand in HER mouth is more a risk to her. Not your baby.

Come on OP. Build a bridge and get on with it. It's not fair on your husband.

newmum2999 · 26/08/2020 01:46

Also, precious has two meanings.

I suspect your MIL refers to your DH in the good way. Whilst precious for you may be the other term Confused

Emeraldshamrock · 26/08/2020 01:54

If anything, putting his hand in HER mouth is more a risk to her. Not your baby How ridiculous ofcourse it is a risk to the baby, they are always placing their hands in their mouth MIL should know better.

Oncemorewithfeelin · 26/08/2020 02:10

I have not read the full thread, but read all the OPs posts.

The first page I read you seemed to get a lot of flack about your parenting choices, but you have explained yourself very well.
I’m someone who is fairly passive in a lot of ways, so understand the initial difficulty of just saying no.
You know you have done nothing wrong and have set boundaries. Hopefully it will be easier for you to assert them now( if the MIL ever starts speaking to you)
I wouldn’t worry about her bad mouthing you to the rest of the family. I imagine it would be hard to blame others if 2 DIL are non contact.

Linning · 26/08/2020 07:48

As a nanny I went to a baby group that was organized in an indoor playground with my then 10 months-old, it was not ever advertised as a RIE baby/playgroup, but the lady leading the group who only had adult kids was a big RIE advocate, she was the most annoying lady I have ever met.

So many first-time moms going there and gosh did she make them feel like shit, always trying to tell us what to do and how to interact with the little ones or how not to interact with their babies and toddlers, a fucking pain in the butt she was if she asked me.

Her goal '' do NOT touch a baby or toddler without their consent.'' which mean if I helped my little guy climb up on a toy truck or caught him from tripping she would be on my back telling me I am not supposed to help him, I lost it when I was playing with him and tickling him and grabbing his hands to cover his face and play peek-a-boo made him giggle and she literally called out to me from across the room to tell me off for grabbing his hand and tickling him as I ''wasn't respecting his body autonomy'' I raged honestly.

It's your baby your choice OP, but RIE people are some of the worst kind of people I have ever met, making everybody feel like weird fucked up abusers who don't respect their kids body autonomy and force physical contact upon them. I feel so sorry for the kids who live under parents like that, and even more so for the moms who were made to feel shitty attending what they thought was a normal playgroup by this crazy lady. So if you spoke to your MIL in the same terms the lady at the playgroups and people who adhered to the doctrines did, I don't blame her one bit (though she seems slightly unhinged as well).

As someone who WAS sexually abused as a kid, RIE people are among the worst kind of people I have come across in terms of type parents I hate to bump into at the playground or in life because RIE teachings wouldn't have saved me from sexual abuse (and the fact they genuinely think they would have is quite laughable honestly if you understand the dynamic of child sexual abuse). The worst part to me is that they (the vocal ones who can't help but preach to others) manage to make people like me feel like sexual molesters and their own abusers for playing with a child in the most inocious ways.

All I have learned from their teaching is that if as a kid my parents had taught me that people needed to ask me for consent for every single physical interaction, I would have lived my assaults as a much bigger trauma than it already was, I would have also found a lot of normal and acceptable physical interactions outside of my nuclear family as inappropriate or invasive. I don't think it would have protected me from being assaulted at all (in fact I know it wouldn't have), it would have just made me a much more sensitive kid who would probably be over aware of every physical contact which, naturally happens after sexual assault and is NOT a good place to be.

You want kids to learn about consent and body autonomy but it's much more important to teach them about intent the reality of assaults. Making a big deal out of physical touch from everyone in their surrounding isn't going to decrease their chances of being assaulted, it will only increase the odds of them developing problems with intimacy and physical touch and a distorted notion of appropriate boundaries.

As someone who was sexually abused as a kid, the last parenting technique I would use is RIE.

Anyway, YANBU to want your MIL to respect your wishes around your son, YABVU to act as if your wishes are those of your 6 months and that what you do will in anyway decrease his chances of being sexually abused, yes sheltering him and stopping him from having normal interactions with other humans will limit the situations in which he could be assaulted but it won't be because RIE works, you could lock your baby in your house and never let him out to ensure he doesn't ever get sexually abused, it wouldn't mean it's beneficial nor that the pros outweight the cons. Babies need genuine loving interactions, and healthy positive physical touch is a big part of teaching kids about healthy relationship, micro-managing and talking about consent all the time to a child is not healthy and I don't personally don't think it benefits anyone.

MockingJay27 · 26/08/2020 08:31

@Linning very well said

Rennlau · 26/08/2020 12:53

@peachgreen you are being hard on yourself, I didn't think you were being disparaging or in anyway mean towards me when you said some of my bounderies/RIE were "a bit daft". Overall, I found your comment supportive and I agree with @ghostcurry you're a class act, you have been from the first comment.

I was on a googling spree researching if what I was doing instinctively as a parent was wrong in any way when I happened upon RIE and I found (like you have) that it aligned with I had already been doing naturally - I too found that validating, it really helped me stop second guessing myself. Having a point of reference made it easier to start asserting myself rather than allow myself to be dismissed.

OP posts:
Delbelleber · 26/08/2020 13:11

I have a small baby so I can relate to some of the feelings you have. Sometimes I'm begging inside for someone to stop what they are doing but you also have to let people interact with your baby in the way they interact and it isn't always going to be the way you do things. My baby has been passed around "mil" (ex p mum) friends and he has also been licked on the hand and face by their dog which I hate but they don't see it as being as disgusting as I do!!!
I think you should try and relax abit with mil and let her have 20mins of interaction without jumping in. Your baby will grow up thinking she is the bees knees whether she is doing things your way or her way. They have their own special bond.

peachgreen · 26/08/2020 13:22

Och thanks @rennlau. Best of luck with it all. This parenting malarkey is tough going, good for your for sticking to your guns.

Rennlau · 26/08/2020 16:15

@Linning I am a survivor of child abuse too.

Do I think being brought up in a culture of consent alone would have prevented me from being a victim of abuse - no. Do I think it would have gave me an understanding that I was right to feel what was happening to me was wrong, uncomfortable, scary - maybe. Do I think I would have been able to verbalise to someone safe about what was going on a lot sooner - again, maybe. So, to clarify, I intend to teach my son about body safety in a multitude of ways, I was never under the impression that the knowledge of consent and consent alone would safeguard my son.

Do I think bringing my son up in a culture of consent will blur the lines and make him believe that people wishing to show him affection are being inappropriate or invasive? No, I don't, not at all. I think me demonstrating respect towards him physically through my words and actions rn means he will simply come to expect respect for his personal space as second bature and will also therefore respect others personal space, that does not equate to distorted bounderies.

Teaching consent also doesn't equate to literally asking for consent everytime you or anyone else touches your child or physically shows them affection. It's about us (the caregivers) giving them basic respective communication before we are about to do something to them. I also don't have a constant narrative everytime I show my son affection.

I have never prevented my MIL or anyone else outside our "bubble" from holding or showing my son physical affection. Nor have I ever asked that they ask for his consent to hold him etc, I have asked my MIL not offer him to be held by strangers.

It seems like you deeply misunderstand the RIE philosophy, understandable - by the example you have written about - but what you describe e.g micromanaging, sheltering, preventing interactions is more akin to helicopter style parenting which is at the opposite end of the spectrum. I would maybe do a little further research on RIE if you would like to be informed on what the philosophy is actually about.

I would also hazard a guess that you're triggered by RIE - again understandable due how this woman's actions in the past made you feel, but that doesn't make some of assertions you have made about me justified, at all - you're wrong and you're projecting your misconceptions onto me and you're way off base.

Finally, I think it's really shitty how the lady leading the playgroup made you and the mothers feel and I understand your outrage at her making first time mums feel like shit, but can I ask what exactly are you intentions in regard to my feelings (a first time mum) when you are saying "RIE people are amongst the worst kind of people I have come across in terms of types of parents" or the other countless things you have said about my parenting choices in regard to RIE/Consent and the statements you have made on how these choices will harm my child?

OP posts: