Child coming home from father filthy.

[darrenlacey]

Child’s father has form for being a crap parent in numerous ways.

My two daughters were with him at his bedsit for 24hours this weekend. Youngest daughter, 7, has come home in the same clothes I sent her in. She confirms she hasn’t changed once, not even for sleep. Her dress is covered In filth and her hair matted.

They never brush their hair or teeth when with him. My oldest is 11 so changed her clothes herself (I provide rucksack with clothes and toiletries for both of them).

In addition, (and yes I know that unpaid maintenance would have no bearing on a child contact arrangement in court) he doesn’t pay maintenance (at the moment he is doing a shady cash in hand job so can’t go through CMS) , and myself and my partner have just forked £300 out for my eldest dd’s secondary school uniform and have asked for a contribution towards both dd’s school shoes and a couple of bras for eldest dd.

He has responded “I have fucking bills to pay wtf.”

AIBU to put a halt on contact?

Ahh...X post...ignore me!

Being ok most of the time isn't good enough. What if he actually hit one of your children? Would you still say 'but most of the time he is ok'? Good behaviour doesn't excuse bad behaviour. You should be doing everything in your power to ensure contact is supervised

@GlummyMcGlummerson thank you 🙏🏻 it sucks

Also totally gobsmacked to see that people think that it's ok to be neglectful because he has a penis and they love him. WTAF. WHY do we set SUCH a low standard for men when it comes to parenting?! I bet all you simpering "it would be mean to keep them from their dad, they're supposed to eat crap and stay up late" types, you enablers, soon moan when your Nigel doesn't shift his weight.

@Forevercurious

I also think it’s crazy how fathers aren’t held responsible for ensuring their children are clean, changing clothes, showering, having a decent bedtime etc. If a mother was the one doing these things people would be advocating calling social services.

This is not about fathers and mothers being held to different standards, it is about the bar for decent parenting and the bar for neglect being in very different places. Social services would not remove children for lax hygiene or late bedtimes, particularly not if this was happening once a week. It would need to be a pattern of consistent neglect where the child/ren are harmed, because removing children from parents and placing them with strangers (even kind, caring strangers) with a chance they may not return, is traumatic and therefore harmful in itself, and it has to be proved that the harm being caused to the children by being in their parents' care is greater than the harm that would be caused by that trauma and disrupting that relationship, even temporarily.

It is also very difficult to neglect an older (and therefore somewhat independent) child in a short space of time. It's likely that this kind of "parenting" if it continued over an extended period of time would constitute neglect, but as a picture of a single 24 hours, it does not. Unfortunately for courts etc it doesn't really seem to matter whether it's the same every 24 hours that they are with a parent like this, nor the cumulative effect of such things week after week. As long as the other parent is competent enough to pick up the pieces no harm is caused and therefore it's not neglect.

It is very very difficult and painful as a conscientious parent to simply allow your children to go off and spend time with somebody who you are aware does not share your standards, and it doesn't matter if these are small differences like giving a toddler food you disapprove of or letting a teenager watch TV you disapprove of (etc), or massive lifestyle differences, it is just as hard. The difficulty is in others' reactions I find, because when it's a small difference the reactions are scathing, and when it's a large difference the reactions assume that you are in a position to do something about it. In reality, acting like a more responsible parent does not bestow you with any actual extra weight of responsibility, which is maddening. The responsibility and therefore ability to make decisions about the children's care is assumed to be exactly 50:50 unless proven otherwise.

@coldwarenigma I completely agree with you regarding a hell of a lot of single dads not being able to afford rent on a 2/3 bed flat/house plus maintenance and the high cost of living.

I have often commiserated with him on this front and for the majority of years since our split not asked for maintenance.

However, I reached my limits a couple of years ago.

And yes I haven't made the best decisions. I was 21 when we had our first DD then I was stupid enough to go back to him and have a second DD after violence and fecklessness.

Luckily 6 years ago I met a wonderful man and we are very happy.

@BertieBotts this also ties in with what I often think - it would probably be more harmful to stop contact than allow it. And this is why I have allowed it all these years despite his utter crapness. Also very aware courts take this view.

I just saw where he's violent towards his girlfriend. Do you want your daughters to witness that? It must be terrifying for them.

OP without getting into whether or not the contact is good for the children, if it continues I would be doing a few things to make it more comfortable. Such as maybe buy those all in one sleeping bag/air bed things and pillows to keep at their dads and a toiletries bag each when they go. Try work out and practice a very simple routine for brushing teeth/hair.

Your eldest was able to speak up when things were bad and she was listened to so hopefully she would again if things were bad. It sounds like you are worried she has started keeping things from you, is there another adult she trusts and could talk to if she needed to, aunt, grandparent, teacher etc.

OP, as your DD is on the spectrum, have you considered their father may also not be neurotypical? When you say he has a considerable history of difficulties in relationships etc...
It still doesn't change the problems you are having though.

Firstly, sorry you're going through this.
If I were in your shoes I wouldn't be allowing overnight stays, if any.
Love on its own isn't enough and what children want isn't always what's good for them. I say this as the child of an alcoholic. Yes, he loved me, and I loved him too in a way, still enjoying spending time with him after parents separated. If I'd been asked whether I wanted to keep seeing him I'd have said yes. At the time I thought it was great that he let me to buy the biggest ice cream possible and never nagged me to do anything "sensible" like homework.
But looking back I wish my mum had left sooner and gone no contact.
He too would get aggressive, would say horrible things to me, frequently left me on my own to go the pub, or brought me to the pub (not a child friendly one), introduced me to his dodgy alcoholic friends and on a few occasions I had to look after him while he was passed out on the kitchen floor. My mum didn't know most of this because she was at work all day and didn't see it, and I wouldn't have thought to tell her as it was normal to me at the time. In my adult life I've struggled with anxiety and depression, and trusting my own judgement about what's normal/appropriate. Please don't let that be your children. It's perfectly fine for kids to have one good parent, as opposed to two parents but one of them terrible.

And Lazysundaymorning has made good suggestions

So the Dc still want to go and stay with him and love him even though the one sleeps on the floor & they haven't got proper bedrooms . Well sounds to me like he is doing something right.

I don't think that it's fair to send your seven year old there if she has a mental age of four and requires extra patience/care. I also wouldn't allow him to host them at girl friends houses. His behaviour seems pretty unstable. Even if he only punches things 10% of the time, that is too much and it will stick in your kid's minds. Your eldest sounds almost like she's trying to protect/cover for him. Be very careful that she doesn't start to assume some kind of responsibility for him. She might enjoy the staying up late etc, but as she gets older, her opinion will quite possibly change and she may experience pity/resentment/anger and a whole mix of emotions. I don't think that it's at all unreasonable to insist that his parents host. In another year or so, your eldest may want more privacy and a bedsit is far from ideal. I think that until he starts to put them first, moves closer and tries to get a one bed flat, then he should ask his parents or another relative to host, otherwise forgoe overnight visits. He clearly lacks the basic skills or responsibility to look after them.

What is wrong with people, if they think that this is in any way ok?! It bloody isn’t!! Unbrushed hair would be ok imo; my own girls sometimes don’t bother every day in school hols (though it doesn’t get matted) 🤷🏻‍♀️ but ffs, same clothes for 24 hours, staying up til 4 eating crap, and unbrushed teeth is neglect.

@Lazysundaymorning I have only just found out about their hideously lacking sleeping situation and will be buying pillows and blankets if they stay with him again. It's just absolutely infuriating that he hasn't done this himself. I just cannot imagine not buying bedding for my children to sleep on for so long.

@Singinginshower Yes, he is definitely NOT neurotypical. He is also one of the most selfish arse holes under the sun.

It's just absolutely infuriating that he hasn't done this himself. I just cannot imagine not buying bedding for my children to sleep on for so long. I completely agree. It must be infuriating and really sad to think of the lack of care.

@Arthersleep I know that my eldest will end up feeling responsible for him.

He has perfected being repeatedly enabled/ cocklodging/playing the victim/little boy lost with woman after woman, his parents/siblings. He expects people to help/loan/give him things, nothing is ever his fault or his responsibility.

I had to take anti anxiety medication because he made me worry about him so much when we split. Made out he was suicidal, penniless, adrift etc. All the time he was cocklodging with a secret girlfriend and was absolutely fine.

My DD's are doomed to end up feeling responsible for him for sure.

That's lazy of him and disgusting. I would stop contact for one weekend and tell him, he can only have them if they change into pjs/fresh clothes and brush teeth/wash every night and morning they're with him or he cannot have them.

I would be working at stopping my kids going there. If he upset your eldest daughter when at his girlfriends house and has all this change and instability going on, and now lack of care when staying with him, no it’s not safe. And what are they learning from him about being an adult and being in relationships. Gosh this sounds sad. Sorry I couldn’t keep doing it.

And yes, DD11 has already started her period. Surely soon she will want to at least have her own room to stay in when with him.

Also, although a totally different scenario, I was groomed by a paedophile as a teenager. I thought he was funny, charming, a friend and I defended him. I failed to see his behaviour as wrong because I was a child. I didn't know what was right or wrong. It never occurred to me to mention to anyone that he bought me and my friends soap on the roap willies and other specialized stuff. Unfortunately no child has the ability to make the best decisions re their own welfare on account of the fact that they were children. I also had a father who struggled with drink and I would cover for him or simply not think to mention things to others as being of concern (namely driving with me in the car whilst over the limit etc). My point is that children need protecting because they are too inexperienced/young to identify risks/share information/make decisions for themselves. That's your job as a parent.

I think you're focused on the wrong thing OP to be honest. Binge-drinking, extremely unsettled lifestyle and abusive behaviour is much more worrying than a slightly slapdash approach to hygiene. Going 24 hours without washing or changing clothes is non-optimal but not a disaster. But he sounds semi itinerant, alcoholic and abusive. That's a much greater concern imho.

Sensible for him to spend the day with them. He only need to drive 4 hours total. He can take them to the park, for a walk, picnic, film, McDonald’s or whatever