Child coming home from father filthy.

[darrenlacey]

Child’s father has form for being a crap parent in numerous ways.

My two daughters were with him at his bedsit for 24hours this weekend. Youngest daughter, 7, has come home in the same clothes I sent her in. She confirms she hasn’t changed once, not even for sleep. Her dress is covered In filth and her hair matted.

They never brush their hair or teeth when with him. My oldest is 11 so changed her clothes herself (I provide rucksack with clothes and toiletries for both of them).

In addition, (and yes I know that unpaid maintenance would have no bearing on a child contact arrangement in court) he doesn’t pay maintenance (at the moment he is doing a shady cash in hand job so can’t go through CMS) , and myself and my partner have just forked £300 out for my eldest dd’s secondary school uniform and have asked for a contribution towards both dd’s school shoes and a couple of bras for eldest dd.

He has responded “I have fucking bills to pay wtf.”

AIBU to put a halt on contact?

How can your clothes get "covered in filth" and your hair matted in 24 hours? That's just one day of waking hours?

@Bourbonbiccy yes he still does the punching/breaking stuff sometimes when he has them.

After Christmas when he really exhibited terrible behaviour when at the latest girlfriends house, DD11 stopped seeing him for a few months. During which time, she started being honest with me about his aggressive behaviour, driving aggressively when DD7 was whining and making him angry etc

She isn't entirely honest with me now, again, because she knows what I think of him and she wants to protect their time together.

No, none of this is acceptable. Of course they love him, hes their father, that doesn't mean they should see him.
Plenty of neglected children love their parents it doesn't mean they should stay with them.
You have to be the adult here and make the adult choice.

He's crap, he's a rubbish parent and it's not fair that he can just do the fun bits and not contribute financially. But, he's their dad and they love him and want to see him.

Not brushing their teeth or changing their clothes is rubbish, but not harmful for 24 hours and not reason to stop contact.

However, the violence and alcoholism is an issue and if you think they are in any danger, then they shouldn't be seeing him unsupervised.

@darrenlacey. Hmm, well that's a trickier one... Truth is, kids enjoy lots of stuff that seems quite odd to us... Being held upside down, poked in the tummy, rolling in mud, hiding under tables for hours, eating dirt. If DD11 enjoys it and isn't afraid of her dad, I'd let her continue going but maybe suggest DD7 comes back in the evening since it sounds like too much for both her and her dad.

My mum used to make me go to my dads - I fucking hated it, he left me to my own devices and once he CBA to get my overnight bag from his car and told me to sleep in my top and jeans - that was almost 20 years ago and I still remember how I felt in that bedroom that night.

He's not a good father. Good fathers do not leave their children dirty, to sleep in their day clothes. It's fucking disgusting, I wouldn't send them back to him.

So a dad should be held to lower standards than a mum?

They already are. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is.

Op its unreasonable to withhold contact unless you can prove that all that you’ve mentioned is having a detrimental impact on your dc. It’s unfortunate how the system is but feckless NRP are allowed to continue being so, because it’s deemed more beneficial to have contact than not.
In our case, I’m consistently dealing with hair matted so bad that the only option has been to cut it into a very very short bob after every extended break. Each time we gain some length we’re back to square one.

The only way round the maintenance issue, in our case out of principal, I’ve refused to share transporting the dc back and forth. I’m not subsidising a parent who refuses to adequately provide for his own children.

Sorry, just read your update about DD11 protecting him and "covering for" him. That sounds like quite an unhealthy dynamic developing...

@ScorpioSphinxInACalicoDress

24 hours without changing clothes is fine. At 7 your daughter should know she has to wash and brush her teeth surely? And the whole point of going to stay with dad, or gran has, since time immemorial been to eat crap and stay up late. He may be a shit father in other ways. What you've described doesn't make it sound like he is particularly.

Eh?! I'm astonished anyone is defending this.

Only on MN would it be "fine" for a 7 year old to stay in the same clothes for 24 hours, not changing even to sleep, eating crap, and staying up until 4am

Tomorrow, no doubt, the tide will turn and there'll be 100s of posters on a "how often do you wash your towels" thread insisting one must boil wash a towel in Dettol after a single use.

YANBU OP. He isn't fulfilling the basics of care towards your vulnerable SEN child, I'm not saying stop them seeing him, but I would be limiting contact to McDonald's and the duck pond tbh, no more overnights

@amijustparanoidorjuststoned, it's hardly fair to accuse posters on this thread of shit parenting, if I've read you correctly. If you just mean this pathetic excuse for a father, then fair enough, he sounds awful.

I think a lot of us have read cases on mumsnet that would make your jaw drop (or, sadly, have direct experience), and are being realistic that a court would be extremely unlikely to order that contact be stopped.

There may be ways to ameliorate the situation though, like requesting through the courts that contact be supervised, at a contact centre, at his parents etc.

It's not that people are minimising the situation- they are being realistic.

@Thisismytimetoshine

He collected them at 3pm on Saturday and brought them back at 5.30pm today. She was wearing the same clothes. Wore them Saturday. Slept in them. Then spent all day in them today.

DD7 clothes were visibly dirty. Lots of brown marks all over, her hair was extremely knotty (it's fine so does get knotty if not brushed every day).

They never brush teeth or hair when with him.

It was the visibly dirty clothes I was a bit chocked by.

[quote darrenlacey]@Bourbonbiccy

I have no evidence to suggest that he is binge drinking currently, but all I have is my 11 year old daughters assessment to go on.

He has a 15 year history of alcoholism and violent behaviour.

He regularly punches walls and breaks things when he gets angry (which is a lot).

However, I have always come down on the side of "they love him, he loves them, better they see him than not".

He has had ups and downs in his care of them since we split in 2014. A lot of neglect, drinking etc but he does love them. [/quote]
OP, I think some posters are being ridiculous im defending his behaviour however...that is one hell of a drip feed. Why is the thread about the clothes when this is going on too?

@godsowncountry thank you for sharing your experience.

Dd11 did seem to feel that way after the Christmas debacle. Described him as lazy and not parenting them at all, too. But now, since he has been single and slightly better behaved, she is back to being protective of him and wants to spend time there because he is a 'best mate' not a nagging parent. It's fun.

She sees me and my partner as the boring nags.

And the whole point of going to stay with dad, or gran has, since time immemorial been to eat crap and stay up late.

It's very easy to let children eat crap and stay up late. Much easier than feeding them something decent and looking after their well being. Fathers have the same responsibility as mothers, not less.

Did I read correctly that previously they have stayed over at the houses of his various girlfriends?
I think I would be more concerned about that.
Do you know who these women are and where your children are staying?

@Barrowmanfan22

I guess because it is secondary at the moment...because as far as I am aware the aggressive behaviour is not being exhibited/at a minimum for now.

His aggression has always been a part of him. Maybe I am a bit blind to it now.

My partner / father tend to think I over react a lot and should let him see them.

The thing is, if he takes you to court you would not have a leg to stand on - of course in the real world these things are basic care to be expected, but the gap between basic expected care and actual neglect is absolutely enormous. In 24 hours there's probably nothing he could actually do which would constitute neglect, short of leaving them totally alone anyway, maybe not feeding them at all.

Hygeine and bedtimes and so on - yes, he should do these things, but not doing them in 24 hours is not causing harm. And therefore it's not grounds to stop contact.

If you think he wouldn't bother to go to court then do whatever you think is best, but at the moment you're in an OK position having a verbal arrangement rather than a court order. Meaning that if you think he is drunk or inappropriate you can make an excuse and keep them home. Meaning you can perhaps give your eldest a phone and if you want to, just go and collect them early from contact. If there was a court order in place you can't do these things as you MUST make the girls available for contact when agreed.

Realistically although being drunk and abusive and violent is harmful towards them, if it's a minority of the time and aimed at objects rather than people, you won't have any proof and it won't mean anything in court. It's not fit for purpose. But you have to work with it how it is.

In your shoes, I would not be spending my children to spend any time with their father. It’s clearly neglect and an abusive environment!

It doesn’t sound safe and stable at all. Sad for them as they love their dad but I would be looking for another way to let them see him.

@BowowMttt I completely agree. He’s being neglectful, albeit low level neglect.

@kikilo yes. Last year he had six different girlfriends in quick succession, all of which were host to him and our DD on his weekends with them. All of which had their own children too.

The first few I let him take them...then he repeatedly ignored my demands to not take them to the subsequent girlfriends'.

After what happened at Christmas (he was binge drinking, he and the girlfriend made DD11 feel awful and uncomfortable and unsafe, he parents them even less/leaves it all to the girlfriend/is violent with girlfriend) I have told him if he introduces another girlfriend he will never see them again as long as they live with me.

I also think it’s crazy how fathers aren’t held responsible for ensuring their children are clean, changing clothes, showering, having a decent bedtime etc. If a mother was the one doing these things people would be advocating calling social services.

The clothes are the least of the worries and shouldn't really be the starting if your thread,

Your children need protecting from his behaviour, set up and protect them.

Maybe day time contact online?

I think your reasoning has to be his total inability to care for them whether you stop contact or just stop overnights though. Be very clear it’s about this and not the maintenance as otherwise you’ll undermine yourself.