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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I been unreasonable? Child access

421 replies

pj722 · 23/08/2020 15:48

So, dad here

I have been separated from my wife for a year and a half. We have a 3 year old. We was together 10 years and married. She is 30 and I am 35.

The marital home is now sold, in the last few months and completed. I am still at my mums pending my new house being ready. My ex has now got a shared ownership 4 bedroom house on the same new estate as we lived on before, and as a father I always wanted her and my son to be sorted first. In order to do this, out about £27,000 equity, I ended up with 4k as we paid her car loan, PERSONAL loan, part of her credit card and enough for her a deposit for a new house. It was more than fair on her behalf and a year later until house was sold ive been with my mum. Not easy. I also took majority of credit card debt.

She works as a teacher, 3 days a week, earns about £1340 a month for that. She gets £300 CSA from me, and £86 child allowance, oh and she got some universal credit on top for nursery, but I still paid more than half of nursery on top of CSA. Thankfully our son is now 3 and from 7th sept he gets 30 hours free.

She regularly complains that she cannot manage financially, reasons such as smoking etc are a factor But anyway, that isn’t the point of this.

I work shifts. 6 days on, 4 day off, this is 2 earlies, 2 lates and 2 nights.

Since we split I have my son on 3 of my days off and sometimes after my second early and into the late shift.
So usually out of 10 days I have him overnight 3- 4, mostly 4. It has always worked well.

All of a sudden she has now decided that me working shifts doesn’t provide stability for our son. It would be nice to have more consistency, however he is a very happy boy and knows he gets 3 good days with his dad on his days off.

She doesn’t seem to accept this all of a sudden but maybe it could be because she has met someone new.
I have done a lot of research and it seems the amount of days that a) don’t see their children, b) see them one every 2 weeks is astounding. And I’m getting it in the neck for having him technically 4 in 10?

I would love to see my son more, however due to giving her most of the money from the divorce and having bigger debts I have no choice to carry on working what I do and what I earn. I also need a house now for me and my son too.

I think the question is, what can I do? I don’t think I’m been unreasonable.

The thing is, if she didn’t get the £300 a month CSA she would struggle, but if it came to the point it was half and half she wouldn’t get any CSA and I wonder if she should even get what she gets if I’m already having him 4 nights in 10.

I know this may sound ridiculous bit if I had to have him more and most of the time, then I would consider an aupair and give them £300 a month!

I have to work and do the job I do. I have no choice in the current climate to take pay cuts, change jobs. I did say to her we both need to be thankful we have jobs, and that I am very much part of my little boys life.

All he cares about is being happy, and he gets 4 days off with me so its great.

I don’t want to go to court, because I have never known people go to court because one parent in other parents opinion doesn’t have their child enough, It’s just ridiculous. Surely a judge would accept I’ve done what I’ve done to make sure she and my son are okay.

She isn’t the best communicator most of the time.

OP posts:
GruffaIo · 23/08/2020 19:27

I haven't read all of the replies but I wanted to say that, depending on all of the circumstances, a court may well make an order based around shift work. OP, if your shift dates are known, say, 4 or 5 weeks in advance, this would be seen as providing sufficient certainty for the child if there were no alternative. For even more certainty, these dates can be written on a calendar for the child to see and understand as they approach, etc. This is particularly useful for younger children or children with SEN. You'd also often be expected to (want to) take some annual leave to provide child care during the holidays.

Bollss · 23/08/2020 19:27

[quote Minimumstandard]@TrustTheGeneGenie. But surely the ex is the main carer then? I.e. the default parent?[/quote]
Well if she has a bigger % then yes?

supersonicginandtonic · 23/08/2020 19:27

@Barbie222 but the mother in this case is just being awkward for being awkward sake. She knew her child's dads shift pattern and it hasn't been an issue up until now.
My ex and I have been seperated for 7 years, he's always had them every weekend and half of the school holidays. He works away Monday to Friday. I wouldn't try and change it now, it's the routine the kids are used too and it's what they're used too.
The kids are as much his as they are mine.

Original poster
pj722 · 23/08/2020 19:28

@cakewench

“Disgruntled women” lovely

The credit cards you’re so graciously paying off, was that debt all of her own making? If so, why are you paying them off?

Same with the aforementioned loan, you say she had a personal loan, was this for buying a handbag or something?

I’m no disgruntled woman. However, I’ve watched parents really struggle when it comes to trying to fit their lives around an ex who works shift work. One is a professional in a medical field (I mention this only because you seem fixated on the monetary aspect of all of this), she had a very amicable relationship with her ex and still she struggled with his shift pattern. Because it IS a struggle to organise childcare/ pickups etc when someone is x days on/ y days off (so she can’t just arrange to have someone do school pickups on certain days all the time for example) and even more difficult when you start a new relationship and just want a normal schedule.

FWIW? I do think your ex needs to pick up some slack and work more hours. She’s forever going to have you lording £300 over her head and having to deal with your shift work pattern otherwise. And presumably you will be happier as well. Win win.

Because I was daft enough to use them in my name, so that she could afford her new house and me working shifts I was in a better position to pay debts down..
OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 23/08/2020 19:30

Why so reluctant to get 50/50 access though?

Namechange2021 · 23/08/2020 19:30

OP YANBU.

Plenty of parents work shifts and with different shift times, school etc wouldn't see their dc on certains days they were working even when living with them, why is it suddenly an issue according to some people on here, now that you are separated? You can't change your whole career at a drop of a hat and especially if you have based the financial decisions you have made to help your ex on your current working arrangements.

Has your ex asked to return to work full time if she is struggling and now that your son gets 30 hours childcare? I ask that in response to the poster that suggests your ex has dropped to part time work to purely facilitate you (perhaps the op is facilitating her having some extra time with her preschooler?).

Your son will also gain stability from you sorting yourself financially and getting the house you are working towards. As long as you are seeings your son regularly and getting quality time with him, I think you are quite reasonable to want go get your own life in order too.

AlwaysCheddar · 23/08/2020 19:33

Your kid will be fine with you doing shifts and it won’t affect him. Honestly! Your ex needs to sort herself out and not be so selfish.

Dominicgoings · 23/08/2020 19:33

‘She knew her child's dads shift pattern and it hasn't been an issue up until now’

Sometimes it takes a while for the trauma of separation and divorce to settle and for people to have the courage to be able to say that the status quo set by the other party doesn’t suit. The OP is very open about the fact that he controls the finances. The OP has refused to take on board any of the reasonable suggestions made by many people who have been through similar. ( flexible working/family support/paid childcare)
I’d be prepared to hazard a guess as to why the Ex has been slow to have her voice heard up until now.

Minimumstandard · 23/08/2020 19:34

@TrustTheGeneGenie. But she is on call. She can't increase her hours or plan anything because she doesn't know when the ex might need her for childcare. Yes, she cares for the child 6 days in 10 but she's on call 100% of the time, except when they're at nursery.

Bollss · 23/08/2020 19:35

[quote Minimumstandard]@TrustTheGeneGenie. But she is on call. She can't increase her hours or plan anything because she doesn't know when the ex might need her for childcare. Yes, she cares for the child 6 days in 10 but she's on call 100% of the time, except when they're at nursery.[/quote]
She works days, she can increase her days to whatever she likes, she just pays nursery like everyone else. She's not "on call" at all. How ridiculous.

boysnamehelpplease · 23/08/2020 19:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
pj722 · 23/08/2020 19:35

[quote Minimumstandard]@TrustTheGeneGenie. But she is on call. She can't increase her hours or plan anything because she doesn't know when the ex might need her for childcare. Yes, she cares for the child 6 days in 10 but she's on call 100% of the time, except when they're at nursery.[/quote]
How the hell is she on call???

If I have my son he’s my responsibility. If I don’t have my son he’s my responsibility under certain circumstances. What a ridiculous comment

OP posts:
Minimumstandard · 23/08/2020 19:37

But the OP can do whatever shifts he likes without worrying about all that because she's doing it for him. His fallback is her, she has to organise childcare and can't rely on him at all.

Pumperthepumper · 23/08/2020 19:37

She works days, she can increase her days to whatever she likes, she just pays nursery like everyone else. She's not "on call" at all. How ridiculous.

The kid is permanently under her care until the OP is free to take over. That’s what irregular days and working to shift patterns means.

Of course, that could be solved by 50/50 access.

Original poster
pj722 · 23/08/2020 19:38

[quote Minimumstandard]@TrustTheGeneGenie. But she is on call. She can't increase her hours or plan anything because she doesn't know when the ex might need her for childcare. Yes, she cares for the child 6 days in 10 but she's on call 100% of the time, except when they're at nursery.[/quote]
On call? She can work full time for me. No reason not to

OP posts:
Original poster
pj722 · 23/08/2020 19:40

@Minimumstandard

But the OP can do whatever shifts he likes without worrying about all that because she's doing it for him. His fallback is her, she has to organise childcare and can't rely on him at all.
She organised no childcare. She doesn’t need any. He goes to nursery the days she works. I have him 4 out of 10 (40% of time). She had a mum, a gran and a dad. I have a mum.
OP posts:
eeyore228 · 23/08/2020 19:41

I am literally creased up laughing. Christ knows what my kids think of me and their dad. We have worked shifts for their entire lives and trust me they are not frightened and bewildered children. Children adapt to many situations and are more than capable of being happy if presented in the right way. The most important thing is this lad sees his parents. It also makes me laugh how some people (assuming women based on the fact it’s mumsnet) believe OP can just magic up different shifts or new work and should do so in order to keep seeing his child. Should he do so his ex could end up out of pocket and I do think the fact he bent over backwards to make sure his ex had a house despite the cost to him should be acknowledged. Do people really think it’s all handed on a plate? He should give up any real equity and give her maintenance and now sort out his hours all so she can be appeased, presumably because whilst the split was being worked out it was in her benefit to say nothing. I assume OP has always worked like this, so it shouldn’t be a surprise. There are plenty of kids who don’t even see their dad, this is a disruption, not a rota based career. He has a job, wants to see his son and took on extra debt so his ex has a nice house and it’s still not enough. It’s just smacks of man hating tbh.

Pumperthepumper · 23/08/2020 19:42

She organised no childcare. She doesn’t need any. He goes to nursery the days she works. I have him 4 out of 10 (40% of time). She had a mum, a gran and a dad. I have a mum.

Nursery is childcare. Why not go for 50/50? Why so reluctant to say?

Minimumstandard · 23/08/2020 19:42

But the OP can work full time without having to worry his head about childcare. Because his ex has to cover that... That's what being "on call" is about. You're the one left with the mental load of piecing together 24 hour care for the kids (either you/someone else providing it) and, if it's breaks down, you're left to pick up the pieces, regardless of your work commitments or career progression. You're ridiculous if you can't understand the distinction.

IndecentFeminist · 23/08/2020 19:43

Why do you keep saying she doesn't need childcare? What do you think nursery is?

Bollss · 23/08/2020 19:44

@Minimumstandard

But the OP can do whatever shifts he likes without worrying about all that because she's doing it for him. His fallback is her, she has to organise childcare and can't rely on him at all.
She works days, she can book nursery. It's really, really simple.
Original poster
pj722 · 23/08/2020 19:44

@eeyore228

I am literally creased up laughing. Christ knows what my kids think of me and their dad. We have worked shifts for their entire lives and trust me they are not frightened and bewildered children. Children adapt to many situations and are more than capable of being happy if presented in the right way. The most important thing is this lad sees his parents. It also makes me laugh how some people (assuming women based on the fact it’s mumsnet) believe OP can just magic up different shifts or new work and should do so in order to keep seeing his child. Should he do so his ex could end up out of pocket and I do think the fact he bent over backwards to make sure his ex had a house despite the cost to him should be acknowledged. Do people really think it’s all handed on a plate? He should give up any real equity and give her maintenance and now sort out his hours all so she can be appeased, presumably because whilst the split was being worked out it was in her benefit to say nothing. I assume OP has always worked like this, so it shouldn’t be a surprise. There are plenty of kids who don’t even see their dad, this is a disruption, not a rota based career. He has a job, wants to see his son and took on extra debt so his ex has a nice house and it’s still not enough. It’s just smacks of man hating tbh.
Best comment all night. And I think this is the point people are missing. It’s not about money, but it is when you have given your everything. I’ve been at my mums a year now, slept on a sofa when my son comes to stay and pretended the spare roll is his room. It’s my time to get sorted now.
OP posts:
NYCDreaming · 23/08/2020 19:44

She organised no childcare. She doesn’t need any. He goes to nursery the days she works.

This is so confusing. Nursery is childcare. She has arranged childcare. What do you think organising childcare means?

Bollss · 23/08/2020 19:44

@Minimumstandard

But the OP can work full time without having to worry his head about childcare. Because his ex has to cover that... That's what being "on call" is about. You're the one left with the mental load of piecing together 24 hour care for the kids (either you/someone else providing it) and, if it's breaks down, you're left to pick up the pieces, regardless of your work commitments or career progression. You're ridiculous if you can't understand the distinction.
Clearly he can't because he's paying for it??
Bollss · 23/08/2020 19:45

@Minimumstandard

But the OP can work full time without having to worry his head about childcare. Because his ex has to cover that... That's what being "on call" is about. You're the one left with the mental load of piecing together 24 hour care for the kids (either you/someone else providing it) and, if it's breaks down, you're left to pick up the pieces, regardless of your work commitments or career progression. You're ridiculous if you can't understand the distinction.
I'm ridiculous?

Yeah or maybe I just live in the real world.