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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I been unreasonable? Child access

421 replies

pj722 · 23/08/2020 15:48

So, dad here

I have been separated from my wife for a year and a half. We have a 3 year old. We was together 10 years and married. She is 30 and I am 35.

The marital home is now sold, in the last few months and completed. I am still at my mums pending my new house being ready. My ex has now got a shared ownership 4 bedroom house on the same new estate as we lived on before, and as a father I always wanted her and my son to be sorted first. In order to do this, out about £27,000 equity, I ended up with 4k as we paid her car loan, PERSONAL loan, part of her credit card and enough for her a deposit for a new house. It was more than fair on her behalf and a year later until house was sold ive been with my mum. Not easy. I also took majority of credit card debt.

She works as a teacher, 3 days a week, earns about £1340 a month for that. She gets £300 CSA from me, and £86 child allowance, oh and she got some universal credit on top for nursery, but I still paid more than half of nursery on top of CSA. Thankfully our son is now 3 and from 7th sept he gets 30 hours free.

She regularly complains that she cannot manage financially, reasons such as smoking etc are a factor But anyway, that isn’t the point of this.

I work shifts. 6 days on, 4 day off, this is 2 earlies, 2 lates and 2 nights.

Since we split I have my son on 3 of my days off and sometimes after my second early and into the late shift.
So usually out of 10 days I have him overnight 3- 4, mostly 4. It has always worked well.

All of a sudden she has now decided that me working shifts doesn’t provide stability for our son. It would be nice to have more consistency, however he is a very happy boy and knows he gets 3 good days with his dad on his days off.

She doesn’t seem to accept this all of a sudden but maybe it could be because she has met someone new.
I have done a lot of research and it seems the amount of days that a) don’t see their children, b) see them one every 2 weeks is astounding. And I’m getting it in the neck for having him technically 4 in 10?

I would love to see my son more, however due to giving her most of the money from the divorce and having bigger debts I have no choice to carry on working what I do and what I earn. I also need a house now for me and my son too.

I think the question is, what can I do? I don’t think I’m been unreasonable.

The thing is, if she didn’t get the £300 a month CSA she would struggle, but if it came to the point it was half and half she wouldn’t get any CSA and I wonder if she should even get what she gets if I’m already having him 4 nights in 10.

I know this may sound ridiculous bit if I had to have him more and most of the time, then I would consider an aupair and give them £300 a month!

I have to work and do the job I do. I have no choice in the current climate to take pay cuts, change jobs. I did say to her we both need to be thankful we have jobs, and that I am very much part of my little boys life.

All he cares about is being happy, and he gets 4 days off with me so its great.

I don’t want to go to court, because I have never known people go to court because one parent in other parents opinion doesn’t have their child enough, It’s just ridiculous. Surely a judge would accept I’ve done what I’ve done to make sure she and my son are okay.

She isn’t the best communicator most of the time.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 23/08/2020 18:49

No, it isn’t - the main point of his OP is how much he pays his ex. He would pay less if he got 50% access. His child would be under his control 50% of the time - he’d also get 50% of the nursery free hours, which he complained his ex was getting. It’s win/win!

vdbfamily · 23/08/2020 18:49

Are you not able to fix a regular pattern and if he is with you whilst you are on nights, your mother will be the responsible adult is he wakes up? Is your mum fit and well. How much is she willing to do?

Minimumstandard · 23/08/2020 18:50

He's not a Disney dad but he does expect his ex to facilitate his life.

Bollss · 23/08/2020 18:50

@Pumperthepumper

No, it isn’t - the main point of his OP is how much he pays his ex. He would pay less if he got 50% access. His child would be under his control 50% of the time - he’d also get 50% of the nursery free hours, which he complained his ex was getting. It’s win/win!
Would he? I'm not sure the 30 hours van be split between two parents actually. Can they?

The main point is clearly not the money. Read the title for a start off.

Bollss · 23/08/2020 18:51

@Minimumstandard

He's not a Disney dad but he does expect his ex to facilitate his life.
Yeah cos he's not facilitated hers at all has he! Blimey.
YoBeaches · 23/08/2020 18:52

Is it feasible to discuss with your employer that fixed hours would be really helpful due to childcare? The same pattern every week?

Pumperthepumper · 23/08/2020 18:53

I read the title, then I read the Op, where access wasn’t mentioned until wading through this essay:

So, dad here

I have been separated from my wife for a year and a half. We have a 3 year old. We was together 10 years and married. She is 30 and I am 35.

The marital home is now sold, in the last few months and completed. I am still at my mums pending my new house being ready. My ex has now got a shared ownership 4 bedroom house on the same new estate as we lived on before, and as a father I always wanted her and my son to be sorted first. In order to do this, out about £27,000 equity, I ended up with 4k as we paid her car loan, PERSONAL loan, part of her credit card and enough for her a deposit for a new house. It was more than fair on her behalf and a year later until house was sold ive been with my mum. Not easy. I also took majority of credit card debt.

She works as a teacher, 3 days a week, earns about £1340 a month for that. She gets £300 CSA from me, and £86 child allowance, oh and she got some universal credit on top for nursery, but I still paid more than half of nursery on top of CSA.
Thankfully our son is now 3 and from 7th sept he gets 30 hours free.

She regularly complains that she cannot manage financially, reasons such as smoking etc are a factor

No access so far, just all about money. I think it’s clear where his priorities are.

So, 50/50 access and an au pair. Equal parenting. Done.

AnyOldPrion · 23/08/2020 18:53

This is a weird comment!
'Do you see the problem? She has arranged her life around the fact she has a child. You are not willing to. You want her to arrange her life and your child’s life around yours which changes every two weeks.'

The OP has his child when he is not working so all his free time. He has to work to live. She has set working hours as a teacher and will get free childcare for 30 hours per week soon. OP seems very fair and has his child lots.

Someone earlier said we didn’t need to know how many bedrooms she has, but I disagree. She’s a single woman with one child and a part time job. She does not need a four bedroom house. Had she invested sensibly, perhaps she could have afforded better childcare...

Menora · 23/08/2020 18:54

He’s resentful about money, she’s resentful about his shifts. Not really many winners here

DumplingsAndStew · 23/08/2020 18:55

What do you mean by this?

Like the other person said she has come out of this very well, im doing my best to spend quality time with the father of my child.

at 4.04pm

Barbie222 · 23/08/2020 18:56

Ok suggest some childcare for a night shift then?

People always say this, when the question should have been "suggest a job I can do that fits around my child, now that I am a single parent for much of the week." OP has been in this position for three years but it's only now occurring to him that it's only down to the goodwill and flexibility of others that he's been able to carry on just carrying on, instead of understanding that the split was going to massively impact his life and he would need to look ahead and make some adjustments so that he wasn't relying on the ex any more.

Most people with young children and no childcare accept they can't work in that sector of the job market, and just because you always assumed you would be able to, it doesn't mean that you always can.

Pogmella · 23/08/2020 18:56

He doesn’t work to live if he’s getting £800 extra in shifts his Exw is kindly facilitating. He either uses this slush fund for overnight care or arranges not to work nights somehow

Dominicgoings · 23/08/2020 18:56

Something else to consider.
Say in 6 months time you or your Ex lose your current job/change jobs/get promoted/meet a new partner and move away/meet a new partner who works shifts that they arranges around their own kids etc etc etc.
What happens then?
You go through this whole saga again?
You have an acrimonious relationship.
But in the middle there is a small child.
You have around 12 or 13 years of this ahead.
Compromise is key. And you can have 200 disgruntled blokes and second wives ( and before anyone starts I’m ALSO a second wife 😉) that YANBU.
But you very clearly are if you expect your childs other parent to do all the compromising.

Minimumstandard · 23/08/2020 18:58

His ex being on-call for childcare 24/7 is facilitating the OP's life to a much greater extent than the £300 he gives her a month in child maintenance.

Dominicgoings · 23/08/2020 18:58

Another question OP.
Is the maintenance you pay a private arrangement between the two of you or did she have to apply to the CMS?

Original poster
pj722 · 23/08/2020 18:59

@Pumperthepumper

I read the title, then I read the Op, where access wasn’t mentioned until wading through this essay:

So, dad here

I have been separated from my wife for a year and a half. We have a 3 year old. We was together 10 years and married. She is 30 and I am 35.

The marital home is now sold, in the last few months and completed. I am still at my mums pending my new house being ready. My ex has now got a shared ownership 4 bedroom house on the same new estate as we lived on before, and as a father I always wanted her and my son to be sorted first. In order to do this, out about £27,000 equity, I ended up with 4k as we paid her car loan, PERSONAL loan, part of her credit card and enough for her a deposit for a new house. It was more than fair on her behalf and a year later until house was sold ive been with my mum. Not easy. I also took majority of credit card debt.

She works as a teacher, 3 days a week, earns about £1340 a month for that. She gets £300 CSA from me, and £86 child allowance, oh and she got some universal credit on top for nursery, but I still paid more than half of nursery on top of CSA.
Thankfully our son is now 3 and from 7th sept he gets 30 hours free.

She regularly complains that she cannot manage financially, reasons such as smoking etc are a factor

No access so far, just all about money. I think it’s clear where his priorities are.

So, 50/50 access and an au pair. Equal parenting. Done.

Don’t you get it???

The money is relevant because i gave her everything. I ended up with very little. I gave her all the furniture. Because I ended up with nothing, and took the credit cards then that’s why I can’t afford to work days! Monday to Friday! And if I didn’t earn what I earn then she wouldn’t get the CSA she gets: so sorry, money is very relevant. Like someone has clearly pointed out. I work 6 days, I then have my son. I don’t see what I’m doing wrong.

OP posts:
Tyersal · 23/08/2020 18:59

I think what a lot of people are missing us that if op changes job to something more child hours friendly he will
A - earn less so if not doing 50/50 will still pay less so the mother will be worse off

B - could potentially them have his son 50/50 and not pay and maintenance and so the mother will be worse off

Mrsmadevans · 23/08/2020 18:59

Why did you split OP?

Original poster
pj722 · 23/08/2020 18:59

@Dominicgoings

Another question OP. Is the maintenance you pay a private arrangement between the two of you or did she have to apply to the CMS?
I did the calculator myself. I paid it even before house was sold. I paid half mortgage half of her car, and CSA.
OP posts:
BeeTrees · 23/08/2020 18:59

I can guess your job from Your shift patterns, She knew what you did going into this and of course you can’t change now! You have a stable job and that’s lucky. Not everyone has teachers hours and holidays to fit around kids. You know your rota months/years in advance and can do all drop offs and pick ups a lot of the time as your days off often fall midweek, and that is only an advantage. He gets your full attention straight form school and in the morning.

People work with 2 shift workers. nursery and child cares have sessions that work around shift workers, it can work.

Dominicgoings · 23/08/2020 19:03

‘ I did the calculator myself’

Does she have any say in this?

I sense a theme emerging....

LittleRa · 23/08/2020 19:05

OP says If I stopped working shifts I’d earn £800 less a month
How much less a month did your wife have to earn to drop down from 5 days to 3 days? Maybe not as much as 800 but it’s a big dent in earnings. That she has taken due to having a child, spending time with her child and not needing to arrange childcare on those 2 non-working days.
Ok, the DS will now be in receipt of 30 hours free, that is only just kicking in now. However, even if she goes back full time 5 days, the 30 hours free nursery is still only 6 hours a day- 9-3pm ish (school hours) Do you think a teacher can collect their own child from school at the end of the school day? Obviously not, so then she either needs to arrange more childcare or if she keeps her 3 working days a week she will have 2 days when she can take him to nursery and collect him. Remember, she will be earning less to be able to do this.
Also, the set days thing is needed for arranging before and after school care. For example, if a person works set days and is off on set days then you can arrange eg. a wraparound service or before/after school club for the days needed. However, you can’t chop and change each week. They need to know for their staffing and ratios etc which days they will be collecting your child and which days they won’t. Same with a childminder I’d have thought.

Pumperthepumper · 23/08/2020 19:06

The money is relevant because i gave her everything. I ended up with very little. I gave her all the furniture. Because I ended up with nothing, and took the credit cards then that’s why I can’t afford to work days! Monday to Friday! And if I didn’t earn what I earn then she wouldn’t get the CSA she gets: so sorry, money is very relevant. Like someone has clearly pointed out. I work 6 days, I then have my son. I don’t see what I’m doing wrong.

Why not 50/50 access and an au pair?

Barbie222 · 23/08/2020 19:06

*Don’t you get it???

*The money is relevant because i gave her everything. I ended up with very little.

I've got to ask, why would you pay for her credit card and bills in the divorce, and agree to a situation where you felt so badly done by? Isn't that the point of divorce law? We've only got your side of the story to go on re the debt and credit cards, too, and what they were used to pay for. If you came out of the divorce feeling hard done by, that's a matter between you and your divorce lawyer and going forward 50% of the time would stop you being resentful about the 300 a month.

I work 6 days, I then have my son. I don’t see what I’m doing wrong.

You have it backwards, because first you have your son to look after, and then you need to earn a living around that. That's what's wrong.

Coldilox · 23/08/2020 19:07

You and I are in the same profession, I recognise that shift pattern! (Albeit I don’t do it as I’m in another role)

I know of colleagues who have been to court over child access because the non shift working parent wanted access to be based on set days rather than around the shift pattern. Two cases I’m aware of, in both cases the court decided access should be around shift patterns, because that’s what hours they have to work in order to be able to provide for them and their child.

So YANBU

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