Am I been unreasonable? Child access

[pj722]

So, dad here

I have been separated from my wife for a year and a half. We have a 3 year old. We was together 10 years and married. She is 30 and I am 35.

The marital home is now sold, in the last few months and completed. I am still at my mums pending my new house being ready. My ex has now got a shared ownership 4 bedroom house on the same new estate as we lived on before, and as a father I always wanted her and my son to be sorted first. In order to do this, out about £27,000 equity, I ended up with 4k as we paid her car loan, PERSONAL loan, part of her credit card and enough for her a deposit for a new house. It was more than fair on her behalf and a year later until house was sold ive been with my mum. Not easy. I also took majority of credit card debt.

She works as a teacher, 3 days a week, earns about £1340 a month for that. She gets £300 CSA from me, and £86 child allowance, oh and she got some universal credit on top for nursery, but I still paid more than half of nursery on top of CSA. Thankfully our son is now 3 and from 7th sept he gets 30 hours free.

She regularly complains that she cannot manage financially, reasons such as smoking etc are a factor But anyway, that isn’t the point of this.

I work shifts. 6 days on, 4 day off, this is 2 earlies, 2 lates and 2 nights.

Since we split I have my son on 3 of my days off and sometimes after my second early and into the late shift.
So usually out of 10 days I have him overnight 3- 4, mostly 4. It has always worked well.

All of a sudden she has now decided that me working shifts doesn’t provide stability for our son. It would be nice to have more consistency, however he is a very happy boy and knows he gets 3 good days with his dad on his days off.

She doesn’t seem to accept this all of a sudden but maybe it could be because she has met someone new.
I have done a lot of research and it seems the amount of days that a) don’t see their children, b) see them one every 2 weeks is astounding. And I’m getting it in the neck for having him technically 4 in 10?

I would love to see my son more, however due to giving her most of the money from the divorce and having bigger debts I have no choice to carry on working what I do and what I earn. I also need a house now for me and my son too.

I think the question is, what can I do? I don’t think I’m been unreasonable.

The thing is, if she didn’t get the £300 a month CSA she would struggle, but if it came to the point it was half and half she wouldn’t get any CSA and I wonder if she should even get what she gets if I’m already having him 4 nights in 10.

I know this may sound ridiculous bit if I had to have him more and most of the time, then I would consider an aupair and give them £300 a month!

I have to work and do the job I do. I have no choice in the current climate to take pay cuts, change jobs. I did say to her we both need to be thankful we have jobs, and that I am very much part of my little boys life.

All he cares about is being happy, and he gets 4 days off with me so its great.

I don’t want to go to court, because I have never known people go to court because one parent in other parents opinion doesn’t have their child enough, It’s just ridiculous. Surely a judge would accept I’ve done what I’ve done to make sure she and my son are okay.

She isn’t the best communicator most of the time.

You need to separate out what his mum does and doesn’t do. It’s no longer your concern how many days she works or what her finances are - you’re no longer together.

You say you have a regular shift pattern of 6 on and then four off, so the days you see your child vary every week and sometimes you don’t see him for a week? I imagine what she is asking for is a predictable and reliable schedule that allows her to live her life too and not be the default parent. At the moment your son fits around you, I guess she’s asking you to prioritise your son. She can’t take a job with a shift pattern without making child care arrangements can she? She can’t do early starts or late nights unless she arranges and pays for someone to look after your son. I would imagine she’s looking for the same kind of commitment to your child that she is giving.

@pj722

So is an aupair a good idea? noone seems to have commented.

If you live with your mother why do you need an aupair?

Well OP didn't take you too long to show your true colours did it? Women don't feel they are entitled to everything we are not a homongeous group who all think alike. Perhaps it's YOUR entitled attitude that is enraging the ex wife so she is now being inflexible? I didn't think YWBU but I do think you are now.

In my opinion, you sound like a great dad! You have provided a nice home for your son & ExW and they've come out of it a lot better than you have. You are definitely one of the nicer ones.

I think you two need to sit down & talk face to face. Communication is better this way. Perhaps don't bring up finances or the possibility of her having a new guy on the scene. Just ask her what's changed. The routine you have with him now works for all of you, so it seemed. Would she rather you didn't work at all? That you were a shit dad?

Also OP, I’m afraid men are usually always in a better position than the women in these situations and I will explain why.

You have set her up to pay the debts off which was good of you. Her income is probably lower than yours and as tends to be how society works, as a man, you have more opportunities to earn more than her, as a man, AND also as a parent who has an ex wife who is able to have your child whilst you are at work. She relies on a nursery to have her child. The nursery won’t have the child if he is sick, so she might not be able to work if that happens.

She has taken time off to have a baby, and now has gone part time. It isn’t easy to leave the child you gave birth to, but also the period of maternity leave and being a parent (the one who has to collect them when they are sick - it will likely always be her who does it) will affect her career. It already will have. She’s earning less than you, has a gap in her career and will find it harder to push her way up the ladder. She has less freedom and more financial responsibilities if you are living at home with your mum, and she’s running a house on her own. I imagine you have saved a ton in rent and bills haven’t you?

I'm not sure what you mean by ' she doesn't have to arrange childcare while she works because he is at nursery'...what do you think childcare is? She has arranged childcare, called nursery, for when she is working.

An au pair requires a, really decent living space, not just a small spare room, otherwise they'll be in your living room all the time and you'd be lucky to pay less than £300 a month. They are brilliant wrap around care and if you get a good one, a really lovely part of the family but it can go wrong too.

Yes, not doing nights within your job would make your life much easier.

I know you feel very generous, but you have no idea what would have been court ordered anyway.

An au pair (even part time) is going to cost you a lot more than the £300 per month you're giving your ex. And is likely to want set hours too (although probably more flexible than a nursery).

If you can't commit to having your DS on particular days, then I think you need to pay 100% of the usual child maintenance to your ex because essentially she's your "back up" childcare. Believe me, she's the cheapest flexible 24/7 childcare you're going to get! I have to pay for my nursery place even if I take my son on holiday or keep him at home with me. You're not obliged to help with nursery costs though the result of not doing so might be that your ex and DS end up on benefits or in poverty if she has to give up her job or cut her hours.

The shift issue is different... Agree with pp that you can't be expected to reduce shifts or give up your job, especially in the current climate. She's got to be realistic. Though the result of this may be that your DS is unsettled and less time with him when he starts school. But these are decisions parents have to make all the time even when they're still together. You have to live.

Realistically, if your ex wife couldn't help out with childcare, you'd have to sort out your working patterns to have your son so yes an au pair or similar. I get that you have been generous, however she is facilitating your work which you shouldn't discount.

My ex works shifts and I didn't think it was much of an issue until I've started seeing the impact it's having on our son who actually does struggle not going over the same days and finds the transition difficult in general. My ex will never acknowledge this and says similar to you that our son knows we'll have him on his days off- yes, but because these days off are random from a child's POV then it does have an impact.

@IndecentFeminist

I'm not sure what you mean by ' she doesn't have to arrange childcare while she works because he is at nursery'...what do you think childcare is? She has arranged childcare, called nursery, for when she is working.

i have been paying joint credit cards down that I took responsibility for. People keep saying "its not about money" but the point is that I financially came out of this much worse, and have been living with my mum until the house sold.We couldn't live together.

This isnt about me been ridig with 50/50 and no CSA but she wouldnt manage if I didnt give her CSA, but then has a go at me about the set up. I do what I can, i dont know why peoplecant see that

If she doesn’t want to be flexible around your shifts II would go for 50/50 so no CSA due and I would stop helping her with child care fees.
Then each of you would be responsible for childcare on your 50% time so you could use the saved CSA payment and the top up childcare payment to pay for your own childcare whether it be a au pair, nanny or other arrangement.

Okay, so what if I say 50/50, carry on working shifts and get an aupair? I can have the regular days then. i can work at home too.

If I stop working shifts, I loose £800 a month. surely people can see the issue? when ive already made sure she has most of the money and credit cards to pay down!

@Waxonwaxoff0 well if dd didn't go then she wouldn't see her dad at all, or any of her other family. As her father choose to move 2 hours away he can't have her school nights, as she would have to be in the car for 4 hours a day. By her stepmum looking after her she still gets to see her ss and stepmums family that treat her better than her dads family do.
Her stepmum has given her stability where her father wouldn't.

I've just noticed the entitled comment- quite frankly it makes you sound like a misogynistic dick.

Well, why do you think you're entitled to pick and choose the days that work for you rather than change job/ working patterns which is what would happen if you're ex turns around and says she isn't willing to work around you anymore.

Dude, stop using the fact that you paid off her debts as a stick to beat her with. Your financial settlement has fuck all to do with your visitation schedule going forward.

Joint debts? If you had the higher income, you take the higher proportion.

Not sure why you quoted me but answered a different point, I was asking why you said she didn't have to arrange childcare when clearly she had done so.

There is a set schedule though..

Every 6th day he has his child for 4 nights.

Why does it matter at the moment which physical days they are? A 3 year old doesn't know the days of the week in order I'm sure....

If that is a consistent pattern then it's quite easy to plan months in advance. I work out my yearly schedule with my ex partner for our daughter and it's absolutely fine.

I think you are seeing him as and when you can around your job, and, like many people who have never had to do any different, can't see what is the problem.
If you went to court you would be given access on specific days, and you would have to work around those either by arranging childcare, or by (heaven forbid) getting a different kind of job which works around a family, like millions of men and women have to.

What you have paid for, and what you have had in the past is neither here nor there.

@OnceUponATimeInHollywood

I think you two need to sit down & talk face to face. Communication is better this way. Perhaps don't bring up finances or the possibility of her having a new guy on the scene. Just ask her what's changed. The routine you have with him now works for all of you, so it seemed. Would she rather you didn't work at all? That you were a shit dad?

This.

Yes, you CAN go to court for 50/50 but it isn't best for your son.

There has to be some way forward that is best for him, but if she is being deliberately obstructive then yes, court may be necessary.

MN is full of man haters so no matter what you do you can’t win in the eyes of some.
Flexible contact around shifts can work very well if both parties are willing. It worked well for my brother for years but in his case both parties were willing to comprise and do what was best for their joint child.
Without that I would go for the 50/50 as changing jobs or dropping shifts is pretty Impossible in the real world, even more so now as we start going into a recession.

I feel for you but it doesn't seem fair that her life has to revolve around your shift pattern - she's not your wife anymore, she doesn't have to accommodate you in that way. Very flexible contact might work well for many families, but she is telling you that it isn't working for her. I have a lot of sympathy for that, she should be able to know when she will be with and without her child for the most part, even to help her plan simple things like dentist appointments or playdates.

You can:

1. Ask your boss for a seven day shift pattern or a daytime only shift pattern
2. If that won't work enquire about moving within the company to a role with a seven day or daytime only work pattern
3. Start to look for a new job
4. Ask family or friends to help you with childcare during the transition period while you look for a new job
5. Find overnight childcare
6. Get an au pair (definitely way more than £300 per month though)
7. Enter conversation with your ex to see if she has any suggestions.

Why do women assume they are entitled to everything? my god.

Then again it sounds like you may have a you problem...

I work shifts. 6 days on, 4 day off, this is 2 earlies, 2 lates and 2 nights. Since we split I have my son on 3 of my days off and sometimes after my second early and into the late shift.

What you describe here is you expecting your ex to facilitate your job. If she disagrees with doing so then you can’t make her do so - a court is much more likely to award you the standard EOW and a night in the week, plus half the school holidays, in which case you would have to pay for childcare when this clashes with your shift, or change your shifts if your employer allowed.

6 days working, 4 days not, of which you like having him the first 3, means lots of chopping and changing in your ex and son’s lives and routines. I’ve just plotted it out on my calendar and sometimes the 3 days with you will fall on Mum’s 3 days at work, which means she then has no child free time for work prep (which teachers need) or to catch up on sleep that whole fortnight. And most of the time your 3 days split through part of a weekend, meaning there are very few whole weekends she will be child free and can go away, and not that many where she will have her child all weekend to take him away - and no full week (let alone fortnight) she can take him away on holiday. She can’t commit at more than a month or so in advance to events she wants to take him to nor to things she can do whilst childfree. Plus, he’s getting to an age where kids start sports clubs and classes, and she’d have to pay for eg swimming lessons never knowing how many she can take him to.
You really need to talk to her to get to the bottom of her precise issues - and listen with an open mind. It might be there are simple things that improve things for her enough to continue this arrangement - such as giving her much more notice of your days or offering more flexibility by using some of your annual leave to have him extra when she’s most busy with work. But if she disagrees I can’t say I’d blame her - she doesn’t insist on you having your son for the 3 days she works each week, and you’re demanding that of her for 6 days at a time, whilst judging her for not working more

I would say to her that you can’t change to set days because of your shift work - it wouldn’t be fair on your son to have to come to you say Wed-Sat every week just to spend time with a nanny when you’re on shifts. Contact is to spend time with you.

I would say you’re open to mediation and you could look at trying to get day time shifts but it’s only fair to let her know that your salary and therefore maintenance would reduce accordingly and you wouldn’t be able to pay half of nursery fees for when she is at work as you’d have to look at your own childcare.

She can’t have it all ways.

You really seem super fixated on the money. It comes across you feel everything she has is purely thanks to you and she should be grateful and cut you some slack. She has contributed too and is entitled to know when you will have child and when she is so she can move on with her life, as can you.