to worry about giving up my job to be sahm

[allthemteeth]

First time mom. DD is 7 months old.

I'm due to return to work at the start of March 21.

I always thought I would go back to work and DD would go to a nursery, but now she's here my feelings have completely changed.

I couldn't imagine going to work all day and leaving her. I hate the thought of not seeing her all day and missing out seeing her grow and develop.

I've not been overly happy in my job for a while now, I've stayed because although I'm only on an average salary, I have the benefit of a company car.

DH has a much higher salary and also has a company car so we could quite comfortably manage without my wage.

The issue is, I've never not had a job.
I've always worked full time and I worry about giving up this independence.
We've always had joint money so it's not as if I will have to ask DH for money or tell him what I spend etc, but not contributing anything to the "pot" just makes me feel uneasy.

I also worry about the social side of not working. I do really like the people I work with and I think I'd miss not being around other adults every day.

It's not really an option for me to go back
part time. My wage would reduce dramatically and I'd pretty much be going to work just to cover nursery fees.

I know I want to leave my job and stay at home with DD but there's just this feeling of losing myself or my independence for doing it.

Has anyone else given up a job? Am I
making the right decision?

@smallestleaf

I don't think being a sahm makes you boring

I was a sahm for two years, not by choice, and, I'm sorry but the women I met were really boring. I didn't get it - they had all had interesting careers and must have been really interesting people in their own lives but as SAHM they only had three topics of conversation, their kids, their sex lives with their husbands and how much they used to drink before they had kids. At playgroups, it was only the first topic for conversation, on nights out, all three topics.

I was sooo happy to get back to work and to have normal interesting conversations about life, the world and everything with interesting people!

When I was at work, the people I worked with mostly talked about their diets, going out drinking, the football, and whatever reality TV was on the previous night.

As a SAHM, the women I spend time with now talk about books, politics, and whatever else comes up in conversation.

It's almost like people have different experiences and generalising is a complete waste of time.

@HarrietM87 I agree. I think if childcare costs was an issue OP would not have made this thread in the first place. She says her DH earns well so it doesn’t really add up that that her going back to work won’t be finically worth it OP has definitely made her mind up quite early on.

Circumstances can change in an instant.

My Mum is glad she stayed working even though it was often part time when I was very small as when I was 12 my Dad became too disabled to work and she needed to become the main earner. It meant she had a full CV and could find a better paid job more easily.

A friend of mine's mother gave up work with her eldest (of 5) so when her Dad became seriously ill they had to sell up their house in an expensive area and move to a brand new cheaper area 4 hours away so they could supplement her mother's low earnings starting work again for the first time in 14 years with the leftover money from the house. Her mother's earning power was also limited as the father needed a lot of care. Fortunately the 14 year old could babysit the 5 year old after school as the father couldn't look after a small child due to his condition. He died a few years later.

Two other girls in my form of 30 at school had Dads die between years 7 and 12 and their mothers suddenly found themselves needing to be the main earner.

Any decision to give up work needs to weigh up things like an emergency affecting the main earner. It also needs to consider the impact on the parent giving up work - occupational pension contributions, future earning capacity and National Insurance contributions for example. Make sure Child Benefit is in your name so you get NI credits if you're not working. If you're not getting Child Benefit due to the tax charge for higher earners claim the benefit and opt not to receive the money so that you still get the NI Credits.

My workplace now has 6 months paternity leave . The two men who are senior in the department have taken 2 weeks each . Knowing them pretty well - one a direct colleague and one used to report to me, they have not taken more as they are concerned about the hit on their careers should they do so....

I have a younger team member who is recently (ish) married and I suspect they might take 6 months. So time may shift things slowly.

I freelanced, did 2 days, then three and now up to 4.5 days (2 from home pre pandemic) and had a childminder and then before and after school care 2 days a week before secondary.

My DH once described my job as 'my little job' when I was 2 days a week. When I met him I earned the same as him and now earn more. That throwaway comment helped keep me in my career job....

All I can give you is the benefit of hindsight and my personal story. I’m 51, I have three amazing DCs 23,21,18. I didn’t give up work completely but I sacrificed my career, willingly, to be the one who was there mostly for the DCs which I wanted, and to play a supporting role to my DHs career. We were an amazing team, equally qualified, hands on Dad, shared drop offs and pick ups initially so I could work part time and keep my hand in and I also enjoyed my days at work. Then he pushed for a move abroad to further his career. Fast forward to now and we are going through an acrimonious divorce (OW), I will be poorer, I am too old to start again, and I now have no profession I can get a job in. I have had to trade pension provision to get funds for a big enough house for a base for D.C. when they are home in the holidays and to get some spousal support to live on. I am self employed but it is in a low earning field. I built up a client base abroad, started again when we came back here, alongside running the household and the lions share of the work associated with bringing up 3DCs. We were the last couple I thought it would happen to. Never sacrifice your career/pension for your children. Trust me, if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone. Do not believe the “but we are a partnership” bullshit. As soon as there is economic inequality in a relationship there is a power inequality and it fundamentally alters the dynamic of the relationship. He is a massively high earner and I have effectively been left unskilled and with a massively reduced earning potential than if I had stayed in my original career. Yes it could happen to you and you need to always cover your back and protect against it. The best thing you can do for your children is ensure you will not be a financial burden on them in old age. Bitter? Too bloody right I am!

There’s a recurrent theme, women left financially compromised, no career when the relationship ends
Man wafts off unaffected as he’s worked unencumbered and his career has not suffered
He has not been the one giving things up

DHs work offer 3 months full pay pat leave which is fairly progressive.

Why on earth do we women judge each other? Why are we our own worst enemies? You absolutely do not get men doing this and until we stop we’ll never have true equality.

As a part-timer I used to feel guilt at work about not being a good enough employee and guilty at home about not being a good enough mum, until I thought fuck this! Men don’t feel this guilt!

I was lucky in that I worked part-time and did lots of fulfilling activities with my 2 in the 2 days I didn’t work. Do they remember anything about it now? Do they fuck! They remember very little of their first 4 years, I may as well have left them in a playpen watching horror movies!

Everybody - Sahm’s, part-time workers, full-time workers - we’re all doing our very best for our families and that should be celebrated rather than trying to do others down.

I was a stay at home mum for about seven years.
Neither I , nor my husband, regretted it. Our children loved it.
If you’re able to do it then go for it.
If it doesn’t work out then you can find alternative childcare solutions.

@FVFrog really honest post!! I have not read everybody’s but yours is probably the most realest I have read so far. Sorry to hear about that I hope you stumble on some really good luck and I’m sure you have been a fab mum to your children. Reading comments like this make be thankful that I clung onto my job when DS was a baby.

@MadameMeursault

Why on earth do we women judge each other? Why are we our own worst enemies? You absolutely do not get men doing this and until we stop we’ll never have true equality.

As a part-timer I used to feel guilt at work about not being a good enough employee and guilty at home about not being a good enough mum, until I thought fuck this! Men don’t feel this guilt!

I was lucky in that I worked part-time and did lots of fulfilling activities with my 2 in the 2 days I didn’t work. Do they remember anything about it now? Do they fuck! They remember very little of their first 4 years, I may as well have left them in a playpen watching horror movies!

Everybody - Sahm’s, part-time workers, full-time workers - we’re all doing our very best for our families and that should be celebrated rather than trying to do others down.

👏

I've always worked part time since ds's born. Now they are older, doing A'levels. I could work full time, but I refuse to. I'll never work anything other than part time ever again, if I can help it!

@Backtobasics5 thanks! I’ll be fine, I’m a survivor but am now passionate that no woman should have their financial future compromised by our society’s lack of appreciation for the work we (mostly) women do to raise our children!

We are heading into a recession, different sectors will be affected by Brexit than by Coronavirus.
Now is not the time to be relying in one salary.

⬆️ Completely agree @Taswama

@MadameMeursault

Why on earth do we women judge each other? Why are we our own worst enemies? You absolutely do not get men doing this and until we stop we’ll never have true equality.

As a part-timer I used to feel guilt at work about not being a good enough employee and guilty at home about not being a good enough mum, until I thought fuck this! Men don’t feel this guilt!

I was lucky in that I worked part-time and did lots of fulfilling activities with my 2 in the 2 days I didn’t work. Do they remember anything about it now? Do they fuck! They remember very little of their first 4 years, I may as well have left them in a playpen watching horror movies!

Everybody - Sahm’s, part-time workers, full-time workers - we’re all doing our very best for our families and that should be celebrated rather than trying to do others down.

This. So much of this thread has been one side making digs at the other and vice versa.

Whatever you decide to do, research it, look into all the other options, talk to DH to make sure you are on the page and then go for it with a little bit of faith. Whether that's working full, part time or not at all.

Life is too short to be getting at people for their choices regarding childcare. Humans are all different, therefore different things suit different people. The world would be a very boring place if we were all the same.

@MadameMeursault

Why on earth do we women judge each other? Why are we our own worst enemies? You absolutely do not get men doing this and until we stop we’ll never have true equality.

As a part-timer I used to feel guilt at work about not being a good enough employee and guilty at home about not being a good enough mum, until I thought fuck this! Men don’t feel this guilt!

I was lucky in that I worked part-time and did lots of fulfilling activities with my 2 in the 2 days I didn’t work. Do they remember anything about it now? Do they fuck! They remember very little of their first 4 years, I may as well have left them in a playpen watching horror movies!

Everybody - Sahm’s, part-time workers, full-time workers - we’re all doing our very best for our families and that should be celebrated rather than trying to do others down.

You're right that its not helpful for women to judge each other, and I would fully support each woman's choice to make the decision that she feels is right. But if you don't mind me saying so its a slightly facile argument.

The reason that these decisions are so personal and polarising for women is that we are still made to feel that it is not possible for us to do both "jobs" (ie employee and parent/wife) optimally and therefore we tend to feel that by doing both we are sacrificing our ability to do one or the other to the best of our ability.

So when women appear to "judge" one another what they are often actually doing is saying: "your life experience is so different from mine and I struggle to understand it but I'm at some level angry that I was asked to make such a stark and binary choice. Why can't I have had some of what you had?"

But the guilt is misdirected. Our emotional angst should really be directed not at one another or at ourselves, it should be directed at structures within society which still largely require the woman to make all these choices. Men are playing a bigger role in the domestic sphere and the raising of children but its still very much seen as supplementary and a bonus if they do this.

This often harrowing decision of work vs childcare, which has such a huge bearing on women's lives and their security, should not be entirely a woman's to make. We as a society need to do a much better job of making men understand that this is as much their responsibility as it is ours and that their failure to share in the domestic sphere is holding ours and their family's security and freedom back.

It's a message board though to be fair, what's annoying is when people post saying my actual lived experience is this, and someone (usually the OP) replies saying no you're wrong, what's the point of asking then? . Some messages have become a bit personal, but as everyone is anon, most are just responding to the words rather than making a judgement on a person.

This often harrowing decision of work vs childcare

Harrowing?

➡️ Men don’t feel this guilt is the pivotal phrase
Because of socialisation,societal norms, gender roles,a dysfunctional system that reinforces patriarchy
Women experience a tension and judgement Thats specific to being female

It’s not a bunfight it’s a weighty issue
It’s no bad thing it’s debated amongst women, I’d like to see more of it,Frankly
What’s more scary is no arguing.passive acquiescence . Everyone being nice

@thepeopleversuswork

[quote MadameMeursault]
Why on earth do we women judge each other? Why are we our own worst enemies? You absolutely do not get men doing this and until we stop we’ll never have true equality.

As a part-timer I used to feel guilt at work about not being a good enough employee and guilty at home about not being a good enough mum, until I thought fuck this! Men don’t feel this guilt!

I was lucky in that I worked part-time and did lots of fulfilling activities with my 2 in the 2 days I didn’t work. Do they remember anything about it now? Do they fuck! They remember very little of their first 4 years, I may as well have left them in a playpen watching horror movies!

Everybody - Sahm’s, part-time workers, full-time workers - we’re all doing our very best for our families and that should be celebrated rather than trying to do others down.

You're right that its not helpful for women to judge each other, and I would fully support each woman's choice to make the decision that she feels is right. But if you don't mind me saying so its a slightly facile argument.

The reason that these decisions are so personal and polarising for women is that we are still made to feel that it is not possible for us to do both "jobs" (ie employee and parent/wife) optimally and therefore we tend to feel that by doing both we are sacrificing our ability to do one or the other to the best of our ability.

So when women appear to "judge" one another what they are often actually doing is saying: "your life experience is so different from mine and I struggle to understand it but I'm at some level angry that I was asked to make such a stark and binary choice. Why can't I have had some of what you had?"

But the guilt is misdirected. Our emotional angst should really be directed not at one another or at ourselves, it should be directed at structures within society which still largely require the woman to make all these choices. Men are playing a bigger role in the domestic sphere and the raising of children but its still very much seen as supplementary and a bonus if they do this.

This often harrowing decision of work vs childcare, which has such a huge bearing on women's lives and their security, should not be entirely a woman's to make. We as a society need to do a much better job of making men understand that this is as much their responsibility as it is ours and that their failure to share in the domestic sphere is holding ours and their family's security and freedom back.[/quote]
@thepeopleversuswork I agree and I sort of tried to address this in my second paragraph. I think the problem is that we’ve been sold this idea that we can have it all and it’s a total myth. You cannot be the perfect career woman (or man) and at the same time the perfect parent, there simply aren’t enough hours in the day. But if you’re not perfect at both, and you’re a woman, you feel like you’re failing as a modern woman as you should be able to do both.

I don’t really know what the answer is. Possibly a society where everyone works fewer hours, so we have more time for other, equally important, aspects of our lives, and we’re not held back in our careers. But another problem is that to live in this modern world, particularly in the UK, we need a certain level of income.

This is only going to get worse, as student debts increase, housing ladders are more difficult to get on, unemployment rises, people have to work longer. I’m rambling now, but I think the solution is a housing market crash so we need smaller mortgages! And tax the rich more obviously, so better distribution of wealth. Sorry, I’ve gone a bit off target!

*off topic

You cannot be the perfect career woman (or man) and at the same time the perfect parent, there simply aren’t enough hours in the day. But if you’re not perfect at both, and you’re a woman, you feel like you’re failing as a modern woman as you should be able to do both.

Not all women feel the same way though, we aren't all a homogeneous blob. I have never thought I am or strived to be perfect in any area of life, and I didn't start when I became a mum. I don't need to be perfect at my job, I need to do it to the best standard I can, but I maintain boundaries in regards to hours worked and maintaining a balance; the same with parenting. I feel like my child can have a fantastic start to life without eating all home cooked organic food, insta worthy play set ups, spending every moment with me or whatever is deemed as being a perfect parent. Again, the only criticism I've ever recieved for my parenting or going back to work has been from other women. This isn't to say what you say isn't true, but it's not the only truth.

I’ve never had a moment guilt or felt I had to have it all (another nonsense sold to women)
I’m good enough, and that’s good maxim to get by

@MadameMeursault you are bang on topic! It is a societal issue that (usually) women/Mums feel they have to choose and whatever they choose they feel judged but I passionately believe that to make an informed choice women need to be a absolutely aware of the financial implications of any decision they make and that is a really difficult thing to do. We need more education so women can make fully informed decisions, not just for the next 5 or 10 years but for the next 30/40/50 years, because that is how long the ramifications of decisions made when you are a new mum will last and women pretty much always seem to end up worse off and that is wrong!

MadameMeursault I know what you're getting at and I agree that a lot of women are just buckling under the strain, but I'm uncomfortable at this "can't have it all" argument.

When do you ever hear a man being told he "can't have it all"? You can't both do really well in your career and be a father? That would be never.

The "can't have it all" argument also assumes that women have to make this basically binary choice: they can either be really good at their job or they can be really good at being a mother: they can't do both. And that offends me partly because its inherently untrue but also because it reinforces the idea that women are wrong to want to be able to combine motherhood with being economically self-sufficient.

There are ways to have some of "all" of it in a way which is more compatible with family life which would be fairly easy to implement if men took on more of the burden of domestic life and childcare and the division of domestic labour got a higher priority from policy makers and employers.

It should not be down to individual women to make this "all or nothing" choice: essentially between unlimited family time with no real agency or financial security or financial security at the expense of quality time with their kids.

If men were brought up to understand that domestic labour was as much a part of their life plan as it was their wives or partners it wouldn't all fall to us in the first place.