On holiday with friend and her kids; it's not going well

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

For context, my DD (8)was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a (mild) neurological condition. As part of this she has good days and bad days - good days she’s a normal 8yo with a normal routine, bad days she get dizzy spells, nausea, headaches (usually triggered by noise or bright lights) and sleeps a lot. She’ll have a 1-2 hour nap and then 14-15 hours at night. I am essentially waiting to see if she gets over it on her own before considering treatment, on advice of her doctor.

We (me, DD and 4yo DS) are on week-long UK holiday with my friend and her kids who are the same age as mine, a couple of hours from where we live. My friend’s 8yo - lets call her Emma - is a sensitive child, always has been, my friend has discussed it with me before, but I never gave it too much thought, my own DD can certainly be sensitive. However we are now on day 4 of the holiday, and living in close quarters with them I’ve realised she’s VERY over sensitive and it’s affecting everyone’s enjoyment of the holiday, and more importantly my DD’s condition. Emma is NT.

A few examples
⁃ they were colouring the other day and Emma went slightly over the lines in her picture. She burst into tears, blamed her mum because her mum was talking to me, and cried for half an hour, chucking her paper in the bin
⁃ - they put a “play” on for us the other night and Emma jumbled up for words. She got really upset, sat on the floor sobbing with her arms folded and refused to finish the play, which annoyed DD the others as they wanted to show us.
⁃ She stubbed her toe on the sofa yesterday and had a totally OTT reaction. She grabbed her foot, rolled around on the floor and screamed the most high pitched scream I’ve ever heard, relentlessly, for 20 minutes. I had to take DD out the room as it brought on a headache. If you overheard you’d think she’d have been stabbed. Her toe was fine, no break and no bruise.
⁃ We went for a picnic yesterday and when we packed up we told the kids that they all had to carry something back and we gave Emma the (lightweight) picnic blanket to carry. After a couple of minutes of walking back to the lodge, and heard a shriek. We turned around and she was about 10m away sitting on the ground crying hysterically. She said it was because the blanket was too heavy then we all left her behind. My friend had to carry for uphill back to the lodge and she cried all the way.

It’s lots of little things all the time. As to not drip feed, my friend’s DH has said before (in front of my friend) he thinks Emma’s sensitivity is exacerbated by her mum babying her. I (secretly) agree - she carries her a lot because she “gets tired legs” - such as round the supermarket, or from a restaurant to the car, or out of someone’s house. She also apologises to her a lot where I don’t think it’s necessary - she apologised for “making” her go over the lines when colouring. She also lays with her every night til she falls asleep - singing a lullaby or scratching her back, for about 1-2 hours. Her 4yo goes to sleep alone! The last 3 nights I’ve looked forward to having a bottle of wine with my friend, but she doesn’t usually come down til 10pm from putting Emma to bed. She’s attempted making her fall asleep alone before but had little success.

Anyway DD has been quite good about Emma’s tantrums considering she hasn’t been well, and every day has been a “bad day” for her. But last night when DD started to feel sleepy around 6pm, and Emma wanted her to play a game. DD said no she just wanted to watch a bit of TV, and Emma has a strop and told her mum that DD was a “bad friend”. At that point DD burst into tears and said to me, in front of Emma, that this is a rubbish holiday and Emma is ruining it 😬 well, merry hell broke loose and I took DD to bed to try and diffuse the situation.

Me and my friend had a bottle of wine and a bit of a grumble last night about it all, she said she has a daily struggle with Emma being so sensitive and her DH goes out the house for hours at a time to sit in a car park because he can’t stand the noise.

When I woke DD up today she said that she feels sick all the time and wants to go home . TBH I feel the same way, I’m sick of the shrieking and whilst I feel sorry for my friend it’s making it an unenjoyable holiday.

I figure I have 4 options:
1. Go home - say DD just isn’t well enough (DS is very chilled out and likely wouldn’t mind this but I’m loathe to cut his holiday short)
2. Tell my friend how Emma’s behaviour is affecting DD and ask her to speak to her or step in before it escalates
3. Do more as a family of three separately from the other family and maybe just meet them for dinner
4. Say nothing, they’re kids and will get over it
WWYD?

Don't tell your friend it is all her/ her daughters fault. Whether her DDs issues are due to parenting or caused by an undiagnosed condition (more likely as the 4 year old is very different), you aren't going to solve anything on a 1 week holiday and will ruin your friendship.

Do separate stuff today.

I feel sorry for Emma, she doesn’t sound too bad to me, but that being said if you aren’t having fun then it’s bad enough. I’d go for option 3. Maybe some time away from her during the day will make her easier to bear in the evenings. And Emma might well be calmer after having a day on her own.

You can choose more than one option here, providing you don't chose 4, which is mutually exclusive with each of the others.
How about trying 2 and 3 simultaneously for a day or even two and if that isn't working, trying 4 for the sake of your daughter's health. (And yours.)
Your friend isn't modelling great behaviour wrt the apologising for colouring in between the lines. Both your children and her 4 year old are getting the message that if someone gets upset enough about something and shouts and screams enough you have to apologise and take the blame for some thing you didn't do. Once might not be harmful, and some people would just shrug it off with "more fool her" or decide to behave in the "sensitive" way so they get the privilege of blaming others, and the immunity to blame, but other people would clearly get the message that you have to make your self subservient to others in close relationship and apologise every time they blame you for their life not going as it should - which seems to me to be priming the other children to put up with abusers in relationships later in life. Only you know whether it is useful having a conversation about this with your daughter at some point.

At this point it sounds like the problems with Emma’s behaviour are so ingrained and been going on for so long that it’s a lot more than you having a quiet chat with your friend is going to solve.
There are clearly family dynamic issues going on with your friend and her kids / husband - but these issues are really not your problem and you shouldn’t have to bear them.

Cut your losses, say that your DD is struggling as she isn’t well enough to be away and leave.

It will be better you leave the situation sooner rather than later when things get more heated as everyone’s nerves get more frayed.

I don’t think you’re going to change Emma’s behaviour. As your DD is ill, perhaps going home is best, but option 3 if not.

I'd go home. My kids' needs come first. I'd not compromise my kids' health and feelings for a friend.

No 2 is going to make NO difference. This behaviour is way too ingrained and normal for that family. The Mum telling Emma to quit, shush etc won't make any difference. This isn't going to be cured in 3 days.

Leave or do you own thing and meet in the evening is the way forward.

I pity that Mum what a rod she has made for her own back. Bet the child doesn't behave like this at school because she knows she won't get away with it.

I feel for you. Hope you can enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Do you’re own thing as a family of 3. How does Emma’s sibling handle her dramatics. If this friendship is important to you though I’d tread carefully.

‘Emma’ is what used to be known as a spoilt brat. It’s not the child’s fault, so if you tell your friend that she has created a spoilt brat you will lose the friendship but you may be doing the child a favour in the long term.

Holidays are supposed to be enjoyable, OP, and this clearly isn’t, so make up some vaguely plausible excuse, cut your losses and go home.

I wouldn’t be so confident Emma is NT. She doesn’t sound it. TBH though I don’t think your friend made a good decision by going on a shared holiday, knowing how Emma behaves. If Emma is definitely NT and this is just bad behaviour, then I would actually suggest to your friend that they leave. It’s not fair that your DD has her holiday cut short for someone else’s bad behaviour and Emma might benefit from having a consequence.

I would do 3 - would probably have done 3 right from the start to be honest but then again holidaying with another family is my idea of hell(sorry, not much help there)

Use the house as a base just for breakfast and sleeping if possible . Outside the house to meet up for lunch or playing in a park maybe but otherwise as little contact with them as possible.
And promise yourselves not to do the same again

Just to give a different perspective and interpretation of the situation, “Emma” sounds a bit like my dd at that age, who may/may not have mild aspergers and definitely anxiety, and it’s nothing to do with bad parenting. Your dd, through no fault of her own, also sounds like child that would be quite difficult to have a holiday with, given that she needs so much rest etc. So overall it’s just a bad combination. Having holidays with other families is always hard, at the best of times, and other people’s children are often annoying in large doses!

@FinnyStory

I'd try one day of doing things separately and meeting up in the evening and see if that's more enjoyable. Then go home if not.

Presumably you can all rub along in small doses or you wouldn't be on holiday together, so it seems a shame to end the friendship, which I think leaving would do.

Would do this too.

My neighbour is on holiday with her 3 kids all 10 and under and her DSis and 2 sons both under 10 (just) - one is autistic - neighbour doesn't get on with DSis anyway, clashing parenting styles but they're staying at a holiday cottage near where their DM lives in Ireland.

I think you need to have plans.

My DM went away with another family (a DM and 2 DC all were very close friends of ours) a lot when we were kids.

One DC was a boy and he had the most godawful tantrums - luckily I don't recall him being too bad when we went on holiday which was to holiday farmhouses, cottages etc - all very cheap or minimal payment apart from food.

I think his DM said to him if he did have tantrums then that he wasn't coming anywhere if he didn't behave - no autism AFAIK as he's an adult and fine now!

Just to add I believe that often children’s behaviour is expressing an underlying need of difficulty. I wouldn’t wrote a child off as a ‘drama queen’ or ‘horrible’ on that basis. I actually feel bad for Emma, it can’t be nice feeling that way she does easily and what she clearly needs is help and support (and possibly a different parenting style if indeed the parenting is coming in to play).

What you’ve said about her reminds me of all the things I’ve read about Highly sensitive (orchid) children.

Some of you are being super harsh about an 8-year-old. I am first in the queue of not pandering to dramatics, but even so I think it’s possible these behaviours whilst annoying would be tolerable/ignorable if OP’s own DD wasn’t bring affected to the point of illness by it. Almost every child I’ve known has burst into tears inappropriately, over-reacted to something ordinary or spoiled a ‘game’. It’s not unheard of and single-parenting on holiday with another family is quite stressful all round, so cut the mother some slack. It’s not something to ruin a friendship over.

Your daughter isn't well enough. Go home

I’d say number 3; this is a long term problem and your friend can’t change anything without time and hard work and it won’t happen within the time frame of your holiday.

@Notcontent

Just to give a different perspective and interpretation of the situation, “Emma” sounds a bit like my dd at that age, who may/may not have mild aspergers and definitely anxiety, and it’s nothing to do with bad parenting. Your dd, through no fault of her own, also sounds like child that would be quite difficult to have a holiday with, given that she needs so much rest etc. So overall it’s just a bad combination. Having holidays with other families is always hard, at the best of times, and other people’s children are often annoying in large doses!

anxiety can be awful - the boy in my post grew up with an alcoholic and wife beater background and she had to get an injunction out on him but he saw his kids afterwards.

For years he would only eat marmite or variations on that - I think he ate other food too but I only recall marmite. Had the most godawful tantrums when out - one was at a country fair show when he couldn't have or dropped an ice cream and he cried for ages and screamed and even a policeman couldn't make him move! Am sure it was to do with his parents situation.

@FinnyStory

I'd try one day of doing things separately and meeting up in the evening and see if that's more enjoyable. Then go home if not.

Presumably you can all rub along in small doses or you wouldn't be on holiday together, so it seems a shame to end the friendship, which I think leaving would do.

^^I'd see if this is feasible.

But, make your plans to go home. This isn't a holiday for you at present, it's an endurance activity and your DD has enough to cope with on her own account and this is not the time for her to be acquiring lessons in accommodating others.

Do 3 for today but if that doesn't help and your DD is still feeling unwell do 1 tomorrow.

Emma sounds like my dd at that age, my dd has Aspergers and dyspraxia. She complains a lot and no one ever wants to go anywhere with us. You say Emma is NT but you don’t know that.

Anyway, even if Emma is not NT it doesn’t mean you have to put up with it, if your dd is feeling unwell then of course it’s ok to go home but I wouldn’t tell your friend that it’s due to her DD’s behaviour, I’m sure she already very aware of the issues her dd has.

Number 3 a day or two of separate activities might be the respite you need. Going home immediately could might be a tad dramatic.

Option 3. It means your kids can enjoy some of their holiday.

@AgeLikeWine

‘Emma’ is what used to be known as a spoilt brat. It’s not the child’s fault, so if you tell your friend that she has created a spoilt brat you will lose the friendship but you may be doing the child a favour in the long term.

Holidays are supposed to be enjoyable, OP, and this clearly isn’t, so make up some vaguely plausible excuse, cut your losses and go home.

Definitely - ime - usually if me or DB played up as kids we'd be given a sharp speaking to or spanking (good old days eh?!) but we were definitely NT and no other issues. But it can't be cured in a few days though the isolated incident can be.