Grandfather is being inappropriate around my dc

[Friendsoftheearth]

I feel quite sick writing this post, but I really could do with some guidance and advice.

My father was extremely abusive when I was a child both physically and emotionally. He would tell my brother and I that he does not like children, and only agreed to have them for my mother. I have no happy memories of my childhood with him at all. My mother stayed, she tried to leave a few times but did not in the end. I am very close to my mother.

Fast forward to now. I have a low contact arrangement with my parents. I could not go completely nc because it would mean never seeing my mother again, as she does not drive and it is difficult meeting her on my own as my father is always there (retired)

We did have to go nc for a number of years and it was extremely hard for me, I missed my mother so much. We have started seeing them again, but I am careful to keep the meet ups brief and 'light'. However the last few times my father has taken to saying the following to my teen dc (16 and 14):

What lovely legs they have, shape etc
Weight - asking them how much they weigh - this is a no go area with teen girls in my view even if they are not overweight
Describing one of them as dressed provocatively - his words (She definitely was not it was just a pair of normal shorts)
He forces them to cuddle him, they obviously don't like it
He makes spiteful jokes about their skin and spots - made my dd cry all of the way home
Makes fun of their eyebrows (no idea why)
Comments pretty much non stop on something or anything to do with them. One of them is vegetarian and he went on and on about it.

It took a lot for me to pull him up on his spiteful remarks about their skin, as I still feel some level of fear around him, and his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!
My reply is that his 'jokes' are not remotely funny and are causing offence. You can't speak to anyone like that, especially not teenagers. He said we lack a sense of humour and everyone is being too fluffy, and the dds are turning into 'snowflakes'...

Am I being precious and over sensitive?
Am I right to stop him from saying these to my children? They are, by the way great fun most of the time but my carefree girls who usually have easy smiles and cheerful dispositions have grown to mistrust him, and they now look edgy around both of my parents now. The eldest is now refusing to go, I respect that of course.

Where do I go from here?

I love my mother dearly, but can not reach her because he is always there, they live 3 hours away, I can't just drop in. I can't seem to have a relationship with her without having to put up with him. They are talking about visiting again, and I don't want them to. Christmas will be next...

I don't want him anywhere near my children again.

Op

In your OP you say “the last few times”

But stop patting yourself on the back and burying your head in the sand

I am doing neither, I have a long way to go I know that, but I am doing my best under the circumstances,
I am not perfect, and I have made mistakes. When I became a mother, I had no real idea of how bad my parents actually were before! It was only once I had my own children, and felt such love for them that I realised how truly messed up my parents were to have hurt me like they did.

You seem to changing the story to fit with how you want to see it, but it’s different to when you first posted and were presumably being more open and honest

@Friendsoftheearth Hope you are ok, this must all be an awful shock. Your father is evil and you know it. So far so simple (almost) but your mother is more complex - and what you do for a living is support mothers just like her to leave and sometimes they don't but they are always the victim. Never the participant. Yet you are seeing that sometimes their passivity makes them an abuser too, or at least an accomplice. It's all so horribly complex. But it's your life. Not just a thing online.

So you have to do it one bit at a time. No more kids seeing dad. Easy. See a therapist - you have one arranged. Please let them be one that over the course of a few weeks helps you see what's happening and deals with it not one that just wants to go around and around sitting there like a nodding dog. I suspect though you need to find out why she did it. And a therapist probably won't know. Do you have any that counsel DV victims that might have an in depth insight into the dynamics at play here?

Anyway. You have bought time with mum. And do you can think about it - losing two parents at the same time (even though you know one is beyond redemption) is tough so take time and when you have made some sense of your thoughts you can take appropriate action.

As a PP suggested it might be good to talk to your DH but his protective side will also be there. It sounds like he's quietly very angry on your behalf. Still, he's probably the closest to this without being part of it. So has a better idea than most.

I think at the very least you need your mother to tell you her side. Properly without crying and manipulating. She is still with him and that says a lot,

I had a tosser (bully) father and a passive mother and as ive grown I've started to see her as detached. He is who he is. Not able to control his strong emotions. But her, who is she? I had an amazing maternal grandmother who loved me (loved all of the grandchildren) and she used to write me letters. I live her they live elsewhere, she died not long after I came here. I left bits in their house. A few years ago they were 'having a clean out' and she burnt all my letters from my grandmother. The idea of having no parents blows my mind but equally reconciling the way they have both behaved is impossible.

I used to think of her as a victim. But she's still with him. Relatively happy in their own way. He didn't hit her (just us) or control her (or did he?). Philip Larkin has it spot on.

I hope you are ok anyway.

askin If you had read the thread you would know I have already discussed this situation with my children both in the past as we have been nc for a very long time, and we spoke about it all again recently.

I have apologised to my dd for the awful way that my father spoke to them and I have told them we will not be seeing him again. They know very well my feelings on the matter, and that is not acceptable.

They hardly know him, they don't like him so not seeing him is not something that seems to bother them at all. We live hundreds of miles from him, so for them it is a non issue.

I think at the very least you need your mother to tell you her side. Properly without crying and manipulating. She is still with him and that says a lot

I doubt she can do this. .
My MiL was abused by FiL. I would never ever deny that.

But that made her the victim. Always and forever.

Any challenge of her victim status will be met with attacks. Because how dare someone try to make a victim feel bad when they are a victim!!!

Doesn't matter that even after FIL left her she continued to be horrible.

OP, I'm shocked and appalled at the 'advice' given by your counsellor 😲🤦‍♀️😔

@AskingforaBaskin you are just out of fucking order. Back off. Don't project your anger at your useless husband into the op.

I've never seen such bullying on a thread before. I'm not going to whine and 'report' to MN but you need to STFU. I have every sympathy for your situation but you are playing private detective, and not well.

This isn't about soothing or giving in or any of that shit. You are just being a bitch now.

[quote Vodkacranberryplease]@AskingforaBaskin you are just out of fucking order. Back off. Don't project your anger at your useless husband into the op.

I've never seen such bullying on a thread before. I'm not going to whine and 'report' to MN but you need to STFU. I have every sympathy for your situation but you are playing private detective, and not well.

This isn't about soothing or giving in or any of that shit. You are just being a bitch now.[/quote]
My husband isn't completely useless because to date MIL has abused our children a grand total of 0 times.
He has chosen us over her.

The road ahead is stressful and going to involve drama but protecting my children is the number 1 priority.

As should always be.

vodka Yes you are spot on. I am sorry for what happened with your parents, similar to mine in so many ways.

I am able to cut my father out without a thought, and have no issue with that. I feel no love for him. With my mother it is as you describe, much more complex. She did not hurt me directly, but she hurt me indirectly. They still come as a package, so you either try to detach one half of the package and do what you can with it, or you leave the package outside and not go near it. It is a tough call.

I cut them both off for many years, and for many years just had my mother in my life. I always looked for a way to still be in touch with her, but she won't leave him and I can't have him in my life. So it is a stunted difficult cobbled together effort, and every now and then she used to ask if we can see him and I would have to find reasons to swerve it. This time, after so long of not seeing him (he has also been very ill, which she used to make me feel guilty about in hindsight) she used a birthday .... I should have said no...

This is what you get with half a (damaged) package.

[quote Vodkacranberryplease]@AskingforaBaskin you are just out of fucking order. Back off. Don't project your anger at your useless husband into the op.

I've never seen such bullying on a thread before. I'm not going to whine and 'report' to MN but you need to STFU. I have every sympathy for your situation but you are playing private detective, and not well.

This isn't about soothing or giving in or any of that shit. You are just being a bitch now.[/quote]
“I’ve never seen such bullying on a thread before”

“you are just being a bitch”

If you expect other people to be more sensitive in their language used to express their disagreement, why would you not model that yourself?

Baskin go and hit a punchball offline or something. Right now you're bullying like hell, just like her dad.

friends, read the useful posts on here and step away from the ones that come from people who can't read or are projecting massively or are plain out of line. You don't need to engage with them.

Maybe there is a script for abused children that follows the pattern you suggest asking and thanks for pointing that out, I will try to be aware of it.
The very fact that I have kept my children away from him for all of these years is important to note, and I have already said there will be no more chances. For me that is okay now. I will never change my mind.

Others will be reading this thread too, perhaps people in a much worse state. I think we need to be mindful of language and tone Askin

Please asking please stop now - your continued berating of the OP is unnecessary - you've made your point (repeatedly) and now you do seem like you're bullying her.

Askin - enough now.

And you're not owning that

I have in fact taken full responsibility for what happened.

friends ... anyone who's read your thread properly knows you have taken responsibility. A couple of posters on here have their own issues.

It is a shame that the thread which had been so positive and helpful to me, and so many people is now being derailed by askin

I don't think there is anything else left to say to you askin I have answered your questions, and I have it clear that I am the only one that can stop this, and it was my fault that he was anywhere near my children. I have also made a decision to never see him again.

I think we should leave it there.