Grandfather is being inappropriate around my dc

[Friendsoftheearth]

I feel quite sick writing this post, but I really could do with some guidance and advice.

My father was extremely abusive when I was a child both physically and emotionally. He would tell my brother and I that he does not like children, and only agreed to have them for my mother. I have no happy memories of my childhood with him at all. My mother stayed, she tried to leave a few times but did not in the end. I am very close to my mother.

Fast forward to now. I have a low contact arrangement with my parents. I could not go completely nc because it would mean never seeing my mother again, as she does not drive and it is difficult meeting her on my own as my father is always there (retired)

We did have to go nc for a number of years and it was extremely hard for me, I missed my mother so much. We have started seeing them again, but I am careful to keep the meet ups brief and 'light'. However the last few times my father has taken to saying the following to my teen dc (16 and 14):

What lovely legs they have, shape etc
Weight - asking them how much they weigh - this is a no go area with teen girls in my view even if they are not overweight
Describing one of them as dressed provocatively - his words (She definitely was not it was just a pair of normal shorts)
He forces them to cuddle him, they obviously don't like it
He makes spiteful jokes about their skin and spots - made my dd cry all of the way home
Makes fun of their eyebrows (no idea why)
Comments pretty much non stop on something or anything to do with them. One of them is vegetarian and he went on and on about it.

It took a lot for me to pull him up on his spiteful remarks about their skin, as I still feel some level of fear around him, and his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!
My reply is that his 'jokes' are not remotely funny and are causing offence. You can't speak to anyone like that, especially not teenagers. He said we lack a sense of humour and everyone is being too fluffy, and the dds are turning into 'snowflakes'...

Am I being precious and over sensitive?
Am I right to stop him from saying these to my children? They are, by the way great fun most of the time but my carefree girls who usually have easy smiles and cheerful dispositions have grown to mistrust him, and they now look edgy around both of my parents now. The eldest is now refusing to go, I respect that of course.

Where do I go from here?

I love my mother dearly, but can not reach her because he is always there, they live 3 hours away, I can't just drop in. I can't seem to have a relationship with her without having to put up with him. They are talking about visiting again, and I don't want them to. Christmas will be next...

I don't want him anywhere near my children again.

Sorry - Clinical Hypnotherapy.

@Handsoffisback

for you wilted. Your mother should be ashamed. She doesn’t deserve you as a daughter. I wish you all the luck in the world moving forward x x

Thank you, that means a lot x

jamie I can only imagine you have been or are in the same position, because last night I sat in shock and in total silence, and today a husk for all intents and purposes. Posting on here, and such a strong reaction. I realised even if I think I am doing a good job looking after dds maybe I am not, and maybe parts of my childhood are escaping. Or I can put this down to a second chance that went horribly wrong. I don't know what to make of it. I am feeling wobbly, and you were very astute to know that. I am resolute that we will never see him again, and thats all I am sure of.

seaagle if ever there was a simple and intelligent conclusion, yours would be it. That is it, in a nutshell. Someone had to be sacrificed. I remember doing very well with my exams and the answer being it doesn't matter, all that matters will be my brother's results, because I am a girl. That was from my mother. I was fair game from the minute I was born, simply because I was female. A punchbag was needed to protect their fragile ego. The only thing that really mattered was that no one actually found out.

Worse still I was reasonably academic, and to make things even worse for them I did actually go on to do some great things, and my brother did not. It has grated for years I suspect. It is not the way things should be. I have to be a broken bird needing a dh or I am not doing my duty. If you have to move 2000 miles away, then you do it simply to be yourself.

wilted and love Thank you for posting, and I am really so sorry that has happened to you. I can't imagine that happening on top of everything else, I hope you have had lots of help and support to begin a recovery and to find some peace and happiness now?

We were children, we had a right to be protected and to feel safe, many many adults let you/us down. I have the deepest admiration for you, survivors in the real sense of the word

This person is continuing to cause damage. You need to be explicit with your mum about why you can't have your children around him. Your poor mum must be so unhappy. What a mean person.

I wonder who the hell voted that poster is being unreasonable

Seriously

OP, I haven't read the whole thread but skimmed through parts of it and can see you've had some sound advice and are taking the right steps now. I came here to say that I'm just flabbergasted that 2% actually voted you as being unreasonable. What the fuck.

Just read all your posts. I take back the comment calling your mum 'your poor mum' as to all intents and purposes she allowed the shocking abuse to happen and to continue to happen.

You sound like you are taking the right steps to heal from all this. Please keep your daughters away from this dysfunction. No other chances for this person. Good luck OP.

Hi @Friendsoftheearth

So so so sorry to hear you're going through this. Sending you a big online hug.

I had a pretty crap childhood myself.And so, I really want my children to have the best and something completely different to what I have had.
I grew up in a home of alcoholics, neglect at some stages, pretty much left to my own devices at a young age and having to look after my younger sister. Strange people coming over to drink with my parents. And then when they were completely drunk as skunks they would be falling over fighting. I'd have to look after myself. I was bullied tremendously by an older sibling as well as bullied horribly at school, didnt have much friends and went through a lot more. Locked up by the older sibling while parents were at the pub and I mean locked up so we couldn't go anywhere. I would come home from school, and walking round from the bus stop to the house saying to myself please let them be drinking tea normal, and not bloody vodka. My mother has mental health issues so the medication and booze mixed together was awful. I hated my life. I'd even stay at school til 6PM or mooch around town to avoid going home. I'd stay in the library and lie to teachers I had coursework to catch up on.
As soon as I was 18, I left, married my Dh young and now we have 4 kids and expecting our 5th. I would do anything to protect my children from the hideous life I had. Which means I also have zero contact with parents and siblings. One of my younger siblings ended up going down a bad path in life. Drugs,prison and so on so no contact with them either. I live 15 mins from mother and last time we spoke was 3 years ago. It hurts but it's the way it is.
She hates my husband and thinks i am poisoning the children against her. She says inappropriate things too to my kids, or to me about the way I raise them and calls my husband names in front of them and randomly calls me drunk to slag us both off even though i havent spoken to her for weeks at those times when we did have sporadic contact. I went through so much and I love her and wish things could be different but that will never be the case. I'm very forgiving and I have given her millions of chances. Even my evil husband" has driven her to hospital and gone to pick up her medication for her. One time he needed to go collect something about 5 years back and it happened to be 2 streets away from where she lived. And he said I wish things were ok with your mum, I could have even popped in to have a cup of tea with her. I love her and just hope she is doing ok now.

I now do my absolute best for my kids. I dont drink alcohol and never will. I make sure they have food and clothes and happy times. I look back at my childhood with such sadness and pray for all the children of this world who are going through rough times.

Please please dont let your girls see their grandfather any more. He seems horrible, right from your childhood. You sound like a superb mother and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. I am very sorry to hear the things he has said. It had made me very upset and annoyed on your behalf. I would stop all contact immediately and perhaps only have phone contact with your mother and see what you can do from there on.
Sending you all my love

P.s sorry if I made this post all about myself. Just wanted to give you a bit of back story on my history too.
Lots of love

The people that voted YABU voted that way because I took my dds to see my parents, full stop, that I should not have done so.
Not because I am being unreasonable to keep them away from him.
One or two of them explained their vote somewhere in the thread.
I don't mind anyway, because everyone has a valuable input on here, and it was a unanimous response, and that alone has given me real confidence and strength.

pop We can't change them can we, we can't magic it all away if only we could. I couldn't have my children in that environment either, the swearing and shouting would be frightening for young children, and yes sadly they would end up living out the worst parts of your childhood.

I do feel sad I can't offer my children the extended family that love them and look out for them, we are very much on our own. But if I have to choose between having a family that is abusive or not having one at all, I will always choose the latter. Breaking the cycle is more important than playing happy families. to you and good luck with your new baby!

@Friendsoftheearth

A useful incident to remind her of when she boo-hoos ... trust me, she won't have forgotten she definitely hasn't forgotten, but she tells me this is how things used to be. I am lucky because my father just used his fists and my cousin was hit with a belt.

I was very careful who became the father of my children as a result. It had to be someone gentle and kind, or it was just not happening.

I was born in 1962 in a council house. This is NOT how it used to be!

You say you can't bring it up because she cries. I say still bring it up EVEN IF she cries. The crying is more manipulation. Talk about it. Talk to her about it a lot. It will make you feel better and might be the catalyst that makes her leave.

You are a far better person than me though OP. I would see the pair as cut from the same cloth to be honest and would have dropped contact entirely as soon as I could get out of the house and be independent.

What did your mum say when your dad was being inappropriate to your daughters?

friends sounds like this thread has shaken you up a lot. Take it easy the next few days; the memories might be a bit haunting. Talk to your husband if he's good at listening, just for support, and exercise and make sure you do some things you really enjoy doing.

Your father honestly sounds like one of the people who, when they die, everyone thinks "thank god for that". A sad comment on a human being but he, more than your mum, had the chance to behave well and consistently chose not to. Hard to believe he's a happy man, when his behaviour is that warped.

sea he is not a happy man at all, sadly, if he was maybe he would have been kinder.

Sweetie this thread made me so sad for you.

You didn't deserve any of that shit from your father. You're right to keep your kids away from him.

Personally I wouldn't see your mother either. Whilst she wasn't the one abusing you she let it happen and made you blame your poor brother. Unforgivable

My mums father used to hit her. Her mum said it was better he hit her cos if she tried to stop him she'd get hit instead. I found this out after my Nan died and my mother has maintained a relationship with her for years since he died for us kids. I wish my mum hadn't done that for her own sake. It really tarnished the memories of who I thought my Nan was.

Protect yourself and your kids. Your mother made her choice years ago.

Sending hugs

@Friendsoftheearth thanks for your response. And I have literally read the entire thread and my mind just blows. I honestly cannot imagine your poor brother being blamed for the bruises. So sad. What a terrible life you had. I have been through lots of rough times in my life. And I am just so happy now. I found God. I am in a better place. I found a man, who loves me and wants to give me and the kids the best life. He's working hard to get us a new home. He provides and makes me laugh until my belly hurts.
When I was a child, all I dreamed of was getting out of the abuse. Dreaming of who I will become and who I will marry. I asked God to send me a good religious man. And then I met my angel. Its amazing how he answers and delivers.
I had a really crap time at home. When my younger siblings got older, they turned into maniacs. It was awful and one in particular was the golden child. No matter how many windows they broke and money they stole for drugs, they were a perfect little baby who couldn't help it.
I had my glasses snatched off my face and snapped, nails dragged down my face and left with scars, my first flat broken into and ransacked, all my food eaten and gone while I was away for the weekend. Had my foot stamped on and I still have a dislocated toe. Money and personal items constantly stolen. Hit and called fat all the time. I was a size 12. I hated it. My father left my mother and went to live far away with another woman. I stayed to support my mother but I couldn't stick it. When she got drunk the names would start and weird accusations. I would be sat in tears and she didn't care. I forgave and forgave. But in the end I couldn't take anymore. I had to get out. My younger sibling was even beating my mother. My elder siblings were also cruel, they even through a stereo and typewriter that hit my head. I had so much money stolen and never got it back. They were perfect angels and I was the bad guy. I now have zero contact with all of them. Yet my nana tells me my mother rings round all the prisons and hostels for contact with my younger ones but won't even call me to ask even if the baby is OK. Last time we spoke was close to 3 years ago. She rang one afternoon to inform me that she wanted me to leave my dh because he is apparently awful and controlling me. And I need to stop forcing my religion on her. All I did was compare something interesting in the bible to my holy book, just purely said oh yes, did you know In Islam we believe in angel Gabriel too but as Jibreel. And also mother Mary is maryam in Islam. Not forcing anyone, just passing on knowledge.

Now I am in a better place. I look back and sigh. Why couldn't I have better parents, why couldn't I have had nice siblings. It sounds pathetic but I am somewhat jealous of people going for coffees or shopping with their mums. I always loved that idea. Or a big sister.
I pretty much just have my hubby, kids and nanny. But best of all, I have God. He got me through it all. He gave me a better life and a good man.
I lost contact with my entire immediate family. Don't bother with my dad that's another story. And it's better for me and my own well being.
I'm happy with my little family and the couple friends I have. Unfortunately I lost a lot of friends too, when I converted to Islam, some didn't want anything to do with me. But I just said hey ho, they weren't true friends in the first place.
I now am expecting baby number 5. Kids are excited too. Hubby is thrilled and we are growing and doing well. I'm in my early 30s and have my whole life ahead of me to give my kids the best and myself the best.

I managed to read all of your post and I have to say your mother is responsible for the abuse too. Maybe worse. They say there are two types of abusers. Bad people who abuse. And bad people who watch abuse and do nothing. Sad really. I remember standing in front of my mother to get the punches or whacks instead of her. I am very strong and looking back I should have stood up for myself, not being violent and nasty back but to stand up for myself. But now that sibling still is the golden child. Can do no wrong. Even after being on heroin and prostitution and stealing. They are angels and I am the pig. I hate it when I think about it. But I got to do what's best for me. You do what's best for you and your lovely girls. I'd stop all contact. And get the councilling and therapy. Trust in God as well. Sending you millions of virtual boxes of milk tray xxxx

I haven't caught up since my post on page 1 and it's good to see all the support. Like others I think your counsellor was not a good one and the advice was beyond terrible.

My mother was encouraged to lie about where her bruises came from to the school (1950/60s). Last week we were talking about it and a neighbour straight up asked her where the bruises came from and said if it was the father she'd do something about it. My mother lied and so nothing was done.

It's why I have called SS on a friend whose child always had 'easily explained' rehearsed excuse bruises. Someone should speak out for those who have had their voices taken away by threats from their supposed loved ones.

My maternal grandfather was heavy handed with his wife and children. He died before I was born but the family dynamic is very odd, with a suicide, a recluse, a pair of bullying mysogynistic twats, and a people-pleaser out of the children. My grandmother denied that her daughters were ever hit at all, and that was hard for my mother and aunts.

My mother parented us very differently - a lot of nurturing and because it was the 70s if we had a smack it was an occasional single mild one after a lot of warnings about behaviour. I know now my mother used to leave to go have a cry in another room because she'd hit us.

Like my mother (who is 70 - so a generation earlier) you can pick what kind of parent you want to be. You can be free from you childhood pattern and all the things you wish your mother had done like protect you, you can do for your children. You can be the mother who puts her children first.

Have you spoken to your DDs about what happened and why it was so inappropriate? It might help them to realise that the reaction of pulling away was absolutely the right one, and that instinct is a good one they should always listen to. Use this an an empowering moment for them. Breaking away from your parents will be painful, but you'll be breaking any chance of the abuse that your father is already grooming your children to accept.

Immediately stop bringing your children to see this man...

About your mother: I am going to say something that might upset you but I never understand why one parent does nothing when they see their kids being treated poorly by the other. Your mother just stood by when that happened to you. She is again allowing your own kids to be put in a situation that causes them distress. This to me is a major issue.

My father was the same. Inappropriate, angry, critical and cold. Even physically violent on occasions, then suggesting that everything was my thought and that I was 'too sensitive'. I was called wicked and perverted as a child and constantly put down. My mother stood by and was herself manipulative, controlling and angry. Her views was that she did not want to lose her nice house and life by addressing my father's behaviour and that I should just put up with it.

The result was untold psychological and physical damage for me and estrangement from my entire family when I became an adult and could finally leave.

Sorry for the rant but the point is, always do whatever you can to protect your kids and remember that you mother had and has a part to play in allowing this situation to carry on.

@Friendsoftheearth you have given your daughters the greatest gift they need: independent minds. They know what your father is like because it's obvious, but importantly, they know what your mother is like because they have a good role model to compare her with.

@SeaEagleFeather is spot on: your mother is the enemy within

• she allowed you to be horrifically physically abused all through your childhood
• she chose to give your brother much more love than she gave you
• she made you the scapegoat by making you ruin your brother's life to save her sick marriage
• she stood by as your father started the same behaviour towards his granddaughters
• she cries to prevent you from challenging her
• she calls her grandchildren the light of her life to instill further the fact that you will never have that status, although she won't protect them, proving the point that they are not the light of her life, just 2 more toys for her husband to destroy

I would start to build a relationship with your brother, not your mother. His children and your children are family.

If you had posted this thread solely about your mother's treatment of you, everybody would be saying what an evil, fucked up woman she is and for you to go no contact. She is 100% the enemy within. I'm so sorry.

I strongly suspect that the OP's mum does really love the grandchilden hugely.

Being subject to a vicious, cruel, angry man for decades is intensely destructive. But no one can do anything for her, only she can leave and the needs of young children > the needs of a parent.

You remind me of my DH in your thinking.

One parent was beyond horrific.
So that must mean the other is better.

Because mum never did XYZ.
Poor mum. He abused her. Etc

Your mum abused you. You've already said she manipulates your daughters in text.
You are failing to protect them form an abuser.
You need to come to terms with cutting her out of their lives.
So she sobs and cries.

Block her out like she blocked out your abuse.
If she does ask tell her. You did nothing while I was abused. Now I will do nothing with you. And block her from their phones.

I also want to add. A few years ago DH decided to Cut his mother out. It saves our marriage.

It was his decision.
But now b
He's started wanting her. He wants a mum because his Dad walked out a long time ago and so he is so sad he doesn't have parents when he hasn't done anything wrong.

I will divorce him if he tries to take our children to her.
It's very much me or her.
He can have a relationship with her if he wants. But I haven't told him this I would lose all respect for him. And I guess that would eventually damage the marriage.

What are your husbands views on everything? Is he happy for your children to be in contact with them at all?

@AskingforaBaskin - my MIL’s treatment of my children (and I) has been a bone of contention between DH and I for years. How he can still have such a Pollyanna fucking attitude about someone who called his then 12 year old, shy, conservative daughter a slut (one of many evil examples) as well as demanding a right to teach them to become racist and homophobic because we don’t know what we’re talking about..... I can’t stand it. We came to an agreement that he was to listen in on every phone call - that that they were to be on speakerphone at all times, etc and the moment anything that made the kids uncomfortable, the call was to end. He has somehow been absent every time she has made racist comments or said derogatory things about me. I’m going to insist that they record the calls now. I find it hard to respect him too.

[quote justilou1]@AskingforaBaskin - my MIL’s treatment of my children (and I) has been a bone of contention between DH and I for years. How he can still have such a Pollyanna fucking attitude about someone who called his then 12 year old, shy, conservative daughter a slut (one of many evil examples) as well as demanding a right to teach them to become racist and homophobic because we don’t know what we’re talking about..... I can’t stand it. We came to an agreement that he was to listen in on every phone call - that that they were to be on speakerphone at all times, etc and the moment anything that made the kids uncomfortable, the call was to end. He has somehow been absent every time she has made racist comments or said derogatory things about me. I’m going to insist that they record the calls now. I find it hard to respect him too.[/quote]
I want to bang my head against a wall.
It's going to come to a massive head one day in the not to distant future.
Because I know he's going to bravely say that he has suffered enough and needs his mum.

Yea mate. We'll sit there and fucking listen to how you've made me suffer with that cunt.

She can see our children on his custody time.
And he has already categorically said that he would chose me over her.

But I know that he would be sad over it. I don't care. That women is a psycho bitch.

He's so sad that his brothers have reconnected with her after they also cut her off, all for desperate reasons, and now they get to be one big happy family

No it's just a cluster of fucked up people.

JFC I will be drilling into my children not to just look at the lovely shiny person they are dating but also the family they come from and judge the hell out of them. I do not want my children going through what I've had to. No partner is worth it.