Grandfather is being inappropriate around my dc

[Friendsoftheearth]

I feel quite sick writing this post, but I really could do with some guidance and advice.

My father was extremely abusive when I was a child both physically and emotionally. He would tell my brother and I that he does not like children, and only agreed to have them for my mother. I have no happy memories of my childhood with him at all. My mother stayed, she tried to leave a few times but did not in the end. I am very close to my mother.

Fast forward to now. I have a low contact arrangement with my parents. I could not go completely nc because it would mean never seeing my mother again, as she does not drive and it is difficult meeting her on my own as my father is always there (retired)

We did have to go nc for a number of years and it was extremely hard for me, I missed my mother so much. We have started seeing them again, but I am careful to keep the meet ups brief and 'light'. However the last few times my father has taken to saying the following to my teen dc (16 and 14):

What lovely legs they have, shape etc
Weight - asking them how much they weigh - this is a no go area with teen girls in my view even if they are not overweight
Describing one of them as dressed provocatively - his words (She definitely was not it was just a pair of normal shorts)
He forces them to cuddle him, they obviously don't like it
He makes spiteful jokes about their skin and spots - made my dd cry all of the way home
Makes fun of their eyebrows (no idea why)
Comments pretty much non stop on something or anything to do with them. One of them is vegetarian and he went on and on about it.

It took a lot for me to pull him up on his spiteful remarks about their skin, as I still feel some level of fear around him, and his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!
My reply is that his 'jokes' are not remotely funny and are causing offence. You can't speak to anyone like that, especially not teenagers. He said we lack a sense of humour and everyone is being too fluffy, and the dds are turning into 'snowflakes'...

Am I being precious and over sensitive?
Am I right to stop him from saying these to my children? They are, by the way great fun most of the time but my carefree girls who usually have easy smiles and cheerful dispositions have grown to mistrust him, and they now look edgy around both of my parents now. The eldest is now refusing to go, I respect that of course.

Where do I go from here?

I love my mother dearly, but can not reach her because he is always there, they live 3 hours away, I can't just drop in. I can't seem to have a relationship with her without having to put up with him. They are talking about visiting again, and I don't want them to. Christmas will be next...

I don't want him anywhere near my children again.

I don't want to think badly of her, I want to go back to my old memory of her so much, to feel the comfort of thinking we were in this together

You want to lie to yourself- I get it, it’s easier to live with.

She lied to herself to keep you in his harm.

She knew full well what was happening and as soon as things got to hot she “had a breakdown”

Like all those celebs who get caught cheating, they check into rehab...

You were never in anything together, she made sure you were in this alone.

You couldn’t have got yourself out, only she could do that but she didn’t want to put your health and well-being above a vile abusing bully.

I was in an abusive relationship

I left BECAUSE of my son. I wanted him and I to be happy and healthy and for him to grow up knowing how to be a decent man.

YANBU. They shouldn't have to see him. So sorry this is happening OP, it must be stirring up all manner of old pain from your own past as well.

Cut them both off completely. Your mother totally failed you so I don't understand why you are so desperate to keep the relationship going. In fact, if you facilitate this contact between your mother and your family, to the huge detriment of you and your DDs, then she will definitely never leave your father as she has no need to. She might reconsider if she realises what she is missing.

Do not subject your DDs to a single second more time with your parents. Do not let history repeat itself. They should never have been able to have contact in the first place.

Considering your DB was the 'golden child', I think you need to consider the real possibility that your mother actually deflected your father's anger onto you to keep it away from your DB and herself. Maybe not as a tiny child, but she she felt you were 'old enough to handle it'.

Your mother is not innocent in all this.

@Friendsoftheearth

Your father didn’t like you

Do you know how very difficult it is to know that, to really know that your own father didn't even like you, much less love you?

I know this.

But he told you this repeatedly and his actions supported this. You know this. You really do!

I know how hard it is to accept

Have had to from BOTH my parents in one way or another

I’ve talked about this before, but it may help you to understand that others know the pain you’re suffering. My mother moved house about 10 years ago, maybe less, and told everyone all about it

Everyone except me.

She didn’t tell me she’d found the house, she didn’t tell me they’d offered, and even when they were about to move she didn’t tell me the address

Eventually she told me a few weeks afterwards. Too late. The damage was done. Nothing ever hurt me like that before or since.

Oh except perhaps when I told her how bewildered and hurt I was that she’d excluded me from the aspects of her move. She told me that “we were never that close”

You’ve been let down in the worst way by BOTH your parents, time for you now to be the opposite of them and protect your lovely teens who deserve the earth the moon and the stars. You can do this. You really can.

This is your chance to make things right with yourself

'when she'

I have lived overseas for much of my adult life, I think some part of me just needed to be away from them. I came back when we first had children, and to be honest they were okay. He worked every hour back then, so I hardly ever saw him and my mother was so excited that I was back and to have her first gc, it was all okay at first. I only really would see my mother.

The problem started when he retired, and he was always then around. I still managed to just see my mother mostly. There came a point when he got bored I think and started crashing our meet ups, and my mother would just let him. So I stopped seeing her. I have never trusted them with my dc, and I have not let them babysit/look after my dc alone because of my childhood. Once he came back on the scene, I found it hard because keeping up the illusion of a nice family was beginning to crack, and he began to show his teeth. I stupidly believed he might be one of those amazing grandparents that make up for their past mistakes.

We moved away mainly to put some distance between us. Broke my mother's heart, but I could not live in the shadows of my own neglect and abuse by being near them, or having them in my life. It was the only way. We went nc after one family event (we were down to only seeing them twice a year by this point) and he was absolutely awful to my dd, out of the blue and we went nc for a few years.

He just encroaches on everything good, and wrings out the love and joy and replaces it with hateful barbed comments and derogatory comments.

I am glad you have decided never to subject your DDs to your vile father any more but I think you also need to be cautious about your mother that she does not manipulate either you or your DDs into relenting and feeling guilty. I would certainly put strict rules in place. Can she get a train to you or a coach and just visit on her own? Or meet you halfway at a town easy to get to from where she is. I think if she will not make any effort then you should pull back from her too. She has spent her whole life not protecting you which is a parents primary duty to their child and now she is allowing the same thing to happen to your DDs. Much as I get you want a "normal" family this will not happen while your Dad is alive as he has somehow conditioned your Mum into thinking along the same lines as him in that he claims he is not doing anything wrong.

Talk to your mum about the problem. Say that you will need to minimise contact with him as it’s inappropriate to make comments about the girls appearance. What does she suggest?

My oh was also catastrophically let down by his parents, as I said his father was evil, but she let him and did nothing to stop the suffering my oh went through

He still suffers somehow from the trauma they inflicted on him

She plays the doting grandmother, she’s even tried to tell me how to parent I loathe her. I wouldn’t give her a cactus to look after, much less my child. she meddles and sneaks about, I don’t trust her at all, but she’s not my ds gm, so we don’t have much to do with her and that’s the way I’ll keep it tbh.

My ds doesn’t see either of my parents, he doesn’t need them picking at him or hurting him. Not on my watch!

OP I want to thank you for this thread which rings so many bells. I am NC with my D.
Regrettably I am also NC with my M which is far more complicated because I worry about her but:
I cannot get to her. She is 100% loyal. She stands beside him or behind him (metaphorically speaking).
She should have stood up for us over the years and never did.
I have very complicated feelings for her as an enabler and as a 50 yr victim.

Your mother really doesn't deserve any kind of relationship with you. I'm not even going to mention your father. She should have protected you & your brother, I don't care what it cost her. That is (should be) the most basic instinct of a mother. She was fully complicit in your abuse & I'd go completely NC your position. Your DDs' instinct (and yours) re his behaviour towards them is justified, it's massively creepy even without the history of violence.

He just encroaches on everything good, and wrings out the love and joy and replaces it with hateful barbed comments and derogatory comments.

Your dad has more venom than mine, but this is why I don’t see my dad anymore.

I told him too. I quoted what he said about my ds, my dsis ALSO took him to task about this - he denied saying it.

So that’s that.

You’ve done the right thing love, now time to do the right thing by you.

Thanks was coincidentally having therapy at the time of the move, it was very useful to have someone who knew how I felt and could help me process it all - would this be an option for you? To get out the feelings you’re suppressing, look at them, process them and put them back all neat and dealt with?

tobed I am sorry for you, and for everyone that has gone through this. Really I am, and I hope if nothing else I hope this thread has really helped others too.
We deserved better as children, we deserve better as adults, and my children are definitely never going to be anywhere near him ever again.

Just to say, I am very low contact with both my parents because my father was abusive & my mother enabled him. On a much, much lesser scale than the OP's though.

You need to keep them away from this horrible man. Please. Find a way to see your mum or get her to leave him. He sounds dreadful.

Re the counsellor. You need someone experienced. But most importantly, it needs to be someone you gel with and get a good feeling about. There’s no point if you don’t.

My stepdad's father used to make similar personal remarks, starting from the age of 12 or so. It was jarring and upsetting and even at that young age I was aware it was weird and inappropriate. 30+ years later it remains my overriding memory of him.

YANBU.

Do not take your children near him ever again. Seriously. Ewwww.

I don’t think I have ever read such a harrowing description - a tiny, vulnerable little girl being beaten in front of a mother who simply does absolutely nothing, actively decides to do nothing to protect her. As for being made to lie to SS, all this does is emphasise the active manipulation this woman is capable of. OP, both your parents are toxic.

I think the fact that your mother had a ‘golden child’, (your brother) and that as an adult, he is wedded to the idea that your mother is sacrosanct and he, as you say, “worships her” demonstrates the terrible conflict in his own mind. A Golden child in the family is characteristic of a toxic parent. Your mother is therefore toxic and, like many enablers she is not only manipulative but controlling. She manipulates and controls you when she uses her tears to create conflict. I certainly don’t think it’s a good idea to have her staying with you, all that will do is to trigger your painful childhood memories over and over again. She is part of this, very much a part of this. Do you know what her own childhood was like? Has she ever spoken of it?

I am so sorry. Your account of your 4 year old self being attacked while your own mother turned her back on your suffering brought tears to my eyes. I’m not a mother, but it goes against every cell in my body to ignore something so cruel and evil.

I am in my 50's and your father's comments are what passed for 'humour' and 'jokes' in my family and in my friends families too.
No idea why, and no idea why it was tolerated.
It made me feel awful, and fat and ugly, and those feelings continued for years. So I really sympathise with you.
Can you explain to your dd's that he is what 'toxic masculinity' looks like.They'll meet other people in their lives like your dad, and they need to know how to handle it.

@MzHz could you please watch your tone?

Watching you being so abrupt with the OP who has clearly 'woken up' to the reality is quite upsetting.

I know this is AIBU and you valid experience, but could you try to adjust your approach when speaking to a survivor of serious childhood physical and emotional abuse?

Your girls are old enough. Explain what your childhood was like (as much as you want) tell them you won’t see him again. If they want to see your mum, they can, away from their home. If your brother opens his gib, tell him the truth.
With the greatest love-tell them to fuck off.

I'm so very sorry, OP, what a time you've had.

Glad to read that you're taking steps to remove yourself and your family from the situation.

And glad, to, to hear you're considering therapy.

I do think talking to a counsellor would help, I am almost afraid to unpack it all. What if I can't put it back?

Yes, that's very common, and understandable. A good therapist will not let you get overwhelmed. They will be sure to check that you are going at a pace you are comfortable with. I'm not saying it's necessarily all easy and smooth sailing, therapy can of course throw up a lot of 'stuff' as you work through it. But you should feel supported, and in control of what you share, and safe. That's the whole aim of it.

Wishing you and yours all the very best. Hope you can now start to heal & recover.