Page 11 | Grandfather is being inappropriate around my dc

Fosler · 19/08/2020 14:27

Wow! I'm so sorry you had such a hard childhood. I'm afraid, in your shoes, I couldn't forgive my mother. No way. I'd be complete NC with both of them.

JamieLeeCurtains · 19/08/2020 14:30

Could posters at least read the OP's updates?

Jaxhog · 19/08/2020 14:32

I really hate to say this, but you need to break contact between your parents and your DCs. Hie behaviour is wrong. However much you love and idolize your Mum, she did and still does facilitate his behaviour.

It's sad that this will mean no contact for your DCs with their GPs, but it sounds like any contact is quite harmful.

JamieLeeCurtains · 19/08/2020 14:34

@Friendsoftheearth Your mother is being extremely self-serving with her excuses. If that's 'just how things were back then', why would she have had to coach you to lie to teachers and social services? If that's 'just how things were back then', then why would someone call the police?

This must be hard to absorb.

Timekeeper2 · 19/08/2020 14:35

Yes, I too was shocked the OP even wants anything to do with her mother given that her mother stood by and watched, and it seems she allowed OP to take the beatings to save herself and her boy OP's brother. OP's mother threw her to the wolves to save herself. Her little girl, as a human shield to herself. I myself would find it easier on some level to forgive the father than forgive the mother who actively encouraged and enabled my abuse. It makes the 'mother' far worse than the father. I bet her mother hasn't once even apologised to the OP. That's because she (the mother - if you can call her that) has iced blood in her veins and OP suggested she is manipulative.

A mother who uses her little girl as a human shield to prevent herself from getting beaten and admits she doesn't love her little girl as much as her son as at best - and at least - as bad as the abusive father, if not worse. Far worse than the father imo. I would have zero contact with either of them and would have made sure mummy dearest knew if she wasn't going to apologise for making me go through all that abuse, then as far as I am concerned, I don't have a mother. Imo she would have died long ago to me.

Forget the father. As depraved and as evil as he was, it seems to mother was far worse. They (OP's father and mother) both deserve each other and to make each other miserable for all eternity. I would have made certain my DDs never even knew my mother, because my DDs would have been told both my parents were dead. The OP seems to have a stockholm syndrome type of relationship with her mother. The father is a red herring. The mother is the real abuser.

Idontlikeyoghurt · 19/08/2020 14:35

So sorry OP this is awful for you and for your dds. You need to speak to your mum on her own. Tell her everything he's said and how it's upset your daughters. Can you meet your mum without him , would that be at all possible? I know you said she doesn't drive. Could you arrange to pick her up or something? It's very sad to stop seeing your mum for the sake of him. But your daughter are your priority and they must come before anything, even if it did mean not seeing your mum.

DancingLady · 19/08/2020 14:38

OP have read all your posts. I'm so sorry you had such a horrible and abusive childhood, and your brother too. You sound like an amazing mum and you should be so proud of how far you have come, and how you've not repeated damaging behaviours with your DDs. Your parents were clearly very messed up and my heart breaks for you being beaten at the age of 4 and having to lie to your teachers. I'm glad you now have a life you love, and a healthy, happy family dynamic, and can choose to limit the contact you have with your parents. In your place I'd stick to xmas cards and consider that generous. to you.

Mumoftwo1994 · 19/08/2020 14:42

@Friendsoftheearth

I feel quite sick writing this post, but I really could do with some guidance and advice.

My father was extremely abusive when I was a child both physically and emotionally. He would tell my brother and I that he does not like children, and only agreed to have them for my mother. I have no happy memories of my childhood with him at all. My mother stayed, she tried to leave a few times but did not in the end. I am very close to my mother.

Fast forward to now. I have a low contact arrangement with my parents. I could not go completely nc because it would mean never seeing my mother again, as she does not drive and it is difficult meeting her on my own as my father is always there (retired)

We did have to go nc for a number of years and it was extremely hard for me, I missed my mother so much. We have started seeing them again, but I am careful to keep the meet ups brief and 'light'. However the last few times my father has taken to saying the following to my teen dc (16 and 14):

What lovely legs they have, shape etc
Weight - asking them how much they weigh - this is a no go area with teen girls in my view even if they are not overweight
Describing one of them as dressed provocatively - his words (She definitely was not it was just a pair of normal shorts)
He forces them to cuddle him, they obviously don't like it
He makes spiteful jokes about their skin and spots - made my dd cry all of the way home
Makes fun of their eyebrows (no idea why)
Comments pretty much non stop on something or anything to do with them. One of them is vegetarian and he went on and on about it.

It took a lot for me to pull him up on his spiteful remarks about their skin, as I still feel some level of fear around him, and his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!
My reply is that his 'jokes' are not remotely funny and are causing offence. You can't speak to anyone like that, especially not teenagers. He said we lack a sense of humour and everyone is being too fluffy, and the dds are turning into 'snowflakes'...

Am I being precious and over sensitive?
Am I right to stop him from saying these to my children? They are, by the way great fun most of the time but my carefree girls who usually have easy smiles and cheerful dispositions have grown to mistrust him, and they now look edgy around both of my parents now. The eldest is now refusing to go, I respect that of course.

Where do I go from here?

I love my mother dearly, but can not reach her because he is always there, they live 3 hours away, I can't just drop in. I can't seem to have a relationship with her without having to put up with him. They are talking about visiting again, and I don't want them to. Christmas will be next...

I don't want him anywhere near my children again.

He sounds like a creep I'm sorry to say and maybe you could catch up with your mum over FaceTime and meet once a month without your girls maybe?

Bluetrews25 · 19/08/2020 14:43

Friendsoftheearth, neither of them deserve one second of your time or attention.
She is bad too.
No one should have to go through any of that. ((((hugs))))

YummyInMyTummy · 19/08/2020 14:43

I agree with @Eddielzzard and would go NC with both your parents. Your mum was complicit in your father’s abuse and sounds like she was abusive in her own way towards you. She is not someone who deserves to be in your life.

QueenArseClangers · 19/08/2020 14:44

Your mum may be a victim but she’s also an abuser. She doesn’t deserve to be called a mother and she doesn’t deserve to have you in her life.
In fact, both of your parents are vile, horrendous cunts who put you through hell OP.
Sending you lots of fortitude and healing thoughts

Idontlikeyoghurt · 19/08/2020 14:45

Just read through your updates OP I'm so sorry for what you went through

Anydreamwilldo12 · 19/08/2020 14:46

I could cry for that little four year old girl being beaten on the floor by her father and her Mother calmly ignoring it.

That is the worst thing I have read on here, it's utterly gut wrenching to read.

I admire you OP for how far you have came from that terrified little girl. You have good morals and have brought up your daughters to have boundaries and respect for themselves. You sound like a wonderful lady.

Its great you say you will cut all contact with your monster of a father. I personally also wouldn't want anything to do with a Mother who sat back and let her little girl be abused so much while protecting her golden child son. Absolutely abhorrent behaviour but you have to decide whether you could live with not seeing her.

DopamineHits · 19/08/2020 14:47

I guess if he was never close to or invested in his children, actually abused them, he feels no family ties to his DGD's, and it's manifesting in a particularly nasty way...

Stop contact, and write a letter explaining why. If your DM is mobile, she can get public transport and come to stay with you -but make it clear she is not to mention her DH or you will cut contact with her too. I suspect that if it comes to it she will back her DH.

You just need to choose your DD's, they are your family.

Original poster

Friendsoftheearth · 19/08/2020 14:48

The one silver lining I have in my life is my work, it has been very rewarding, and reminds me that I have some self worth.

My line of work involves the dealing with DV abusers incredibly.
So for twenty years now I have been able to help others, protect other families and children, even when I couldn't stop what happened to me as a child.

I can't say more than that because is outing, but I have made it my lifetime's work to make a difference to women and children that experience similar things or much worse I am sad to say. Perhaps that is why I don't have much time to think about my own stuff. I am too busy to think about it. I am good at my job, because I really understand. The irony isn't lost on me though. It is always easier looking from the outside.

As I said I have buried my own past to the extent that no one would ever guess in a million years what happened to me, and that is what I intended when I left home all those years ago. To wipe away the pain and trauma and start again, and I did. I decided they would not have the power to ruin my whole life. I couldn't change my childhood, but I was damn well going to fight tooth and nail for a better future. I have been largely successful. It is still all on the inside of course. It is all there, but has been possible to move past it most of the time. Apart from moments like this of course.

I do think talking to a counsellor would help, I am almost afraid to unpack it all. What if I can't put it back?

OP posts:

DancingLady · 19/08/2020 14:49

Seeing your update about how until recently you still idolised your mum... I sort of understand that, especially as you're a mum yourself. To not go insane you may have had to justify her behaviour, and lack of intervention, and explain it away. I think it will be/has been very painful for you to admit that she was complicit and did nothing to stop this. Because you can't imagine allowing your partner to do this to your DDs while you stand by.

stretchedmarks · 19/08/2020 14:50

No more visits to theirs with your kids. If you want to see your mother, go alone and take her out without him. Tell him no, he cannot come.

Do not see him. If your mother won't go without him, then explain to her won't see her at all.

Krampusasbabysitter · 19/08/2020 14:51

OP, I had to sit on my fingers and force myself to read the entire thread, as not to jump in prematurely. And your ongoing revelations about your mother completely reiterated my initial thoughts. I am glad other posters picked up on this. Your mother is an abuser too. And in some ways almost worse because she fucked with your head over and over. And you need to shield your daughters from her just as much as from your father because she is utterly toxic. It will be very hard to come to terms with the level of betrayal and accept she isn’t the innocent victim but I reckon that deep down you know full well. Don’t play her game or pander to her by bending over backwards to see her on her terms, i.e. continue contact with the man who hurt you so much while she not only stood by, but coerced you to cover it up and even re-directed his anger away from your brother on to you. If she genuinely misses you then she can get on a fucking train, coach or whatever. She has so much to make up and atone for. That’s the very least! Imagine as a mother to stand by and do nothing while someone brutally beats your toddler! Keep this in mind whenever your mother tries to control and manipulate you. She can fucking fill an Olympic sized swimming pool with her goddam crocodile tears but remember when she took away your chance of safety and forced you to lie in the most appalling form of emotional blackmail. She sold you out over and over. Fuck feeling embarrassed when the police came! She is an utter disgrace! Please, please stop the narrative of her being this helpless victim. Even when given numerous chances to put her children first, she chose him every single time. It’s time OP to really allow yourself to be angry at both of these abusers. Please, please find a decent counsellor who will help you truly open your eyes about your mother. She failed you every single way. Time she stopped crying for herself and accepted her role and at the very least showed some genuine contrition. I fecking loathe feeble cunts like her!

DancingLady · 19/08/2020 14:52

And yes it will be very painful to unpack this and go over it with a therapist. You will feel worse before you feel better. Find someone you trust and connect with, be kind to yourself. Nothing that happened in your childhood, to you, your mum or your brother, was your fault.

Nanny0gg · 19/08/2020 14:53

@Graphista

The OP has addressed most of your points in her responses.

Vodkacranberryplease · 19/08/2020 14:54

This is one of the saddest threads I have ever read. You describe it all so eloquently, & have become such an amazing person.

I dont know what you can do apart from send a message to your Mum clearly stating you & your DC will not be seeing him again, any contact you have will be with her alone, & I think it needs to be said to her that you have vivid memories of her letting it happen to you & so much as you love her you will not be giving her any leeway over this.

Type it out, send it, & then let it sit with her. I think sometimes we need to say what we need to say & since its likely that you wont see either again anyway theres nothing more to lose. I think you deserve answers & 72 is not so old that she is unable to provide them.

Theres DV victims & theres DV enablers & sadly she was both.

BuffaloMozzerella · 19/08/2020 14:55

I'm so sorry OP. It's hard to read what you went through growing up. I had a much older brother who was violent at home and home life was awful. I was constantly walking on eggshells constantly waiting for something to set him off.

I agree with other people that your DM has failed to protect you and she is still not capable of protecting you or her grandchildren now. I understand the conflicting feelings towards your mum - I have them too - they are extremely complex and painful to face. Especially if you are still made to feel bad for wanting to do things differently or discuss the past. It's all emotional manipulation to keep the status quo for them. My mum does it too.

Original poster

Friendsoftheearth · 19/08/2020 14:56

Jamie our neighbours (not sure which ones, we never found out) would call the police. It was a source of real embarrassment to them, but not enough to actually stop him though.
The police didn't do anything, and so I imagine the neighbours eventually gave up calling them. Most of the neighbours did still speak to my parents, and sometimes my mother would feed their cat whilst on holiday.

It is extremely messed up.

OP posts:

Timekeeper2 · 19/08/2020 14:56

Fuck feeling embarrassed when the police came! She is an utter disgrace!

Exactly. She cried because she was embarrassed for herself (probably because her abusiveness was in danger of being exposed, her real true self behind the feeble, weak veneer and pretence).

Why didn't she cry for her DAUGHTER? She cried for herself only.

jessstan2 · 19/08/2020 14:57

@ukgift2016

Stop contact, inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour.

On your mother, it is her choice to stay and it is her choice to not have a relationship she may have wanted her daughter/grandchildren.

That 100%.

Can your mum not come to stay with you on her own occasionally?