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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Grandfather is being inappropriate around my dc

636 replies

Friendsoftheearth · 19/08/2020 09:52

I feel quite sick writing this post, but I really could do with some guidance and advice.

My father was extremely abusive when I was a child both physically and emotionally. He would tell my brother and I that he does not like children, and only agreed to have them for my mother. I have no happy memories of my childhood with him at all. My mother stayed, she tried to leave a few times but did not in the end. I am very close to my mother.

Fast forward to now. I have a low contact arrangement with my parents. I could not go completely nc because it would mean never seeing my mother again, as she does not drive and it is difficult meeting her on my own as my father is always there (retired)

We did have to go nc for a number of years and it was extremely hard for me, I missed my mother so much. We have started seeing them again, but I am careful to keep the meet ups brief and 'light'. However the last few times my father has taken to saying the following to my teen dc (16 and 14):

What lovely legs they have, shape etc
Weight - asking them how much they weigh - this is a no go area with teen girls in my view even if they are not overweight
Describing one of them as dressed provocatively - his words (She definitely was not it was just a pair of normal shorts)
He forces them to cuddle him, they obviously don't like it
He makes spiteful jokes about their skin and spots - made my dd cry all of the way home
Makes fun of their eyebrows (no idea why)
Comments pretty much non stop on something or anything to do with them. One of them is vegetarian and he went on and on about it.

It took a lot for me to pull him up on his spiteful remarks about their skin, as I still feel some level of fear around him, and his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!
My reply is that his 'jokes' are not remotely funny and are causing offence. You can't speak to anyone like that, especially not teenagers. He said we lack a sense of humour and everyone is being too fluffy, and the dds are turning into 'snowflakes'...

Am I being precious and over sensitive?
Am I right to stop him from saying these to my children? They are, by the way great fun most of the time but my carefree girls who usually have easy smiles and cheerful dispositions have grown to mistrust him, and they now look edgy around both of my parents now. The eldest is now refusing to go, I respect that of course.

Where do I go from here?

I love my mother dearly, but can not reach her because he is always there, they live 3 hours away, I can't just drop in. I can't seem to have a relationship with her without having to put up with him. They are talking about visiting again, and I don't want them to. Christmas will be next...

I don't want him anywhere near my children again.

OP posts:
BlackSwan · 19/08/2020 14:00

My parents were abusive. I remember once vomiting my lunch up into my hands at school because my mother would get angry if i stained my dress. On that occasion (I was 5 or 6) a teacher came to my aid. I don't remember clearly what I told her - but i did try to tell her what would happen to me if i got in trouble at home. She told me to sit and wait for her while she went to the staff room. She never came back and I felt totally abandoned.

I'm now in my 40's. I live in another continent from my parents. Have done for more than a decade. I visit as infrequently as possible.

Lockdown is a blessing in that respect. Excuse not to visit.
I facetime my mother (we reconciled over the years) but i blot out my father's face with my thumb if he's on screen.
Childhood abuse lasts a lifetime.

Spandang · 19/08/2020 14:00

OP your children will know they feel uncomfortable. They are old enough to realise.

My grandfather was like that. Always made me feel uncomfortable and I could never put my finger on why. As soon as I was old enough to refuse to see him I did. My father tried to reconcile this numerous times believing I think, that I was being difficult and he was just a quirky person.

It was the day my dad had to tell me he’d been put on the sex offenders register for an inappropriate relationship with a teenage girl that he accepted how I felt and apologised.

I knew he was bad all along. I knew and all the women in my family felt it, that’s why he had no one in his life but my Dad.

Your kids already know. Teach them it’s right to listen to your own gut instinct and not appease people who make you uncomfortable.

MilerVino · 19/08/2020 14:01

When I was eleven there was a social services investigation as to why I was covered in bruises. My mother told me to lie or I will never see her again, my dream of escaping died that day as I waited in the school library with my lies rehearsed for the two teachers and someone from a department somewhere coming in for a 'chat' with me.I knew then that I might lose my mother altogether, and the thought terrified me.

Sorry OP but she's almost as much a problem as your father. Your parents are the same age as my parents and I'm roughly the same age as you. Violence was more accepted but certainly not to the extent you describe. I can remember my dad hitting me and my mum begging him to stop but it was just nothing like to the level you describe. It's just the most dreadful emotional manipulation to force you to lie and to make that threat that you'd lose her if you didn't.

Phbq · 19/08/2020 14:03

I think I’d consider going NC with both of them. Your mother was undoubtedly in an abusive relationship but she was also an abuser.

DontBeShelfish · 19/08/2020 14:04

The stories on this thread are just absolutely awful. I can't fathom the mind of someone who could treat a tiny child like that, it makes me feel sick to my stomach.

OP, your strength is phenomenal. You don't sound weak at all to me, and I think you must've known what the responses to your thread would be, deep down.

Your toxic parents haven't defined who you are. I'm so, so sorry you had to live through all that. And to anyone that's had to.

CharlottesComplicatedWeb · 19/08/2020 14:07

Go NC. Right now. Get your mum a taxi/train ticket/bus pass to visit or meet up with you.

That’s it. You know it has to happen.

incenseandpeppermints · 19/08/2020 14:07

Your kids already know. Teach them it’s right to listen to your own gut instinct and not appease people who make you uncomfortable.
This ^^^

MMN123 · 19/08/2020 14:08

To find a decent qualified therapist (assuming you are in the UK) look here:
www.bps.org.uk/lists/DIR

Swelteringmeltering · 19/08/2020 14:10

Op I agree with everything everyone has said , however I wouldn't make big announcements about anything. Just fade away and I would as years go on meet your dm half way by train etc to see her.

I do feel for people who end up saddled to people like this. I get everything they are saying about your mum too being complicit.

Personally I'd just fade out... There is absolutely no need for your dc to see them ever again.

It's so sad society puts this pressure on us to see gp, no matter how awful.

Re Xmas... Bat it away.

AlbaAlba · 19/08/2020 14:11

Just figured out how to see all your posts. So a few further thoughts:

  • CBT alone may not help enough, if you possibly can, you need trauma-specific therapy such as EMDR, with CBT alongside. Try and find someone who is experienced in trauma, especially abuse, and who you feel comfortable with.
  • Your mother was able to protect your brother to some extent, but sadly didn't even try for you. You have absolutely no responsibility for her or her happiness. If she could try to protect him, she could do the same for you. She didn't.
  • You're doing the right thing to protect your daughters, but please get support. This is a gigantic old mess of emotions, guilt, abuse etc that no one should have to deal with, especially not on their own.
picklemewalnuts · 19/08/2020 14:12

Your mum was complicit. She's effectively partitioned your emotions so she beats none of the blame. I understand that she was also abused, but none of the barriers that stopped her leaving then are stopping her now. She could leave him, live safely with you and your DDs, build a better relationship with your brother, but she chooses not to.

She didn't only fail you by picking a bad man as your father, she made things worse than they ne3ded to be with your brother and you.

mbosnz · 19/08/2020 14:15

My FIL has made a couple of inappropriate comments to my daughters on skype. DH forgot to mention this to me, one of my daughters told me. I was incandescent. I told him and the girls that they didn't have to speak another word to him again, if they did not wish.

And they haven't.

They were the only grandchildren that were still in contact with him, we are the only members of his family prepared to acknowledge his existence. And he still couldn't help himself. DH only keeps up with him out of a sense of filial duty

Graphista · 19/08/2020 14:15

Yabvu to continue exposing them to this twat!!

I also have an abusive father who tightly controls my mother so I DO know where you're coming from to a degree BUT I very much controlled the VERY limited access he had to dd growing up, he wasn't allowed within 6ft of her and he KNEW if he ever said anything remotely inappropriate he wouldn't have seen her or I again.

YOU need to be your children's advocate and protect them - physically and emotionally.

If they don't want physical contact with him they don't have to.

Frankly in your position I wouldn't be taking them there anyway and I'd be very clear about why!

You DON'T Have to stay over on visits, stay in a cheap hotel or make it a long day trip, collect your mother or if she's up to it she could get public transport to stay at yours.

DEFINITELY no to them both coming for Christmas or indeed any other time. As pp says their home should be safe and comfortable NOT somewhere they are on edge and feeling unsafe.

My parents have NEVER stayed at mine and only mum has visited, she was never allowed to babysit dd as frankly I didn't trust her on safeguarding matters particularly regarding my father.

She's moaned about that sometimes but tough, dds safety was the priority.

You don't mention any sexual abuse of yourself but do you have any siblings? It's a myth that a man who abuses one child this way abuses all his children this way - just like other paedophiles they can have preferences or they avoid abusing the ones most likely to tell!

I also sympathise with the frustration of your mother not leaving him. Same here but almost 50 years. I've given up now. Mum knows IF she ever decides to leave him she will have my full support with whatever she needs but aside from that we don't even discuss it.

He has her completely convinced she wouldn't cope without him. Plus as a Catholic there's a LOT of guilt involved not just re marriage being a sacrament but also as she is now his carer and if she left nobody else would care for him and he wouldn't have "strangers" come in. Covid has made things so much worse as he's high risk and won't let her leave the house at all now! Awful situation!

Why has your mother decided to stay with such an awful man? such an ignorant and callous comment! Because she is a victim of long term and serious domestic abuse! Effectively she's been brainwashed.

Years ago Oprah did an interesting episode which began when the audience were queuing to get in to the studio. There were a few crew members planted among the audience who began to comment on a "nasty smell" once the audience was seated Oprah apologised for the smell and asked how many had noticed it while waiting - well over half the audience raised their hands! And that was merely the suggestion planted by people who were strangers to and had no power over them!

Oprah then admitted it was a set up and explained it was to illustrate how powerful it is when someone plants an idea in your head.

She then said something like "now imagine, instead of a smell it's your partner/spouse or parent telling you EVERY DAY that you're useless/ugly/stupid and you can see how abuse victims come to believe this is true"

This is what abuse victims have drummed into them all day every day by someone that at least at one point they loved and trusted! It's relentless and the hardest type of abuse to resist.

Lots of suggestions to meet the mum alone and that may be possible for op it wasn't for me because the secrecy puts my mum at risk. She cannot risk lying to my dad or angering him by having a relationship with me with him completely cut out. So I have a vlc relationship with him to make it easier for mum to stay in contact and have my support.

This IS his best behaviour believe or not. I believe you op

Why can your Mum not meet you at a local cafe close to her?

Does he follow her everywhere she goes?

Men like this track their closest victims movements, i suspect like my mum her movements are watched like a hawk! If she's so much as 5 mins later than usual back from dentist or shopping she's interrogated and accused of all sorts! Mileage is checked if they drive, constant phone calls/texts "where are you?!" Endless grief if they ignore the calls/texts...

It's not weak op it's an incredibly difficult situation.

I saw a counsellor but she told me to forgive my parents and see them because not seeing them was upsetting me so much! How on earth do you find one that understands this kind of family dynamic? where did you find this counsellor? Unfortunately "counsellor" is not a protected profession - meaning ANYONE can call themselves one and sell their services.

Good luck op do all you can to be strong and stick to your decision.

Durgasarrow · 19/08/2020 14:17

You have one job you must not lose sight of, ever. It is to protect your daughters.
Your mother had one job she was supposed to not lose sight of. It was to protect her daughter.
You both made hard choices, every day of your lives. You made the painful choice of cutting yourself off from family, even though you were a vulnerable child. You have protected your children all of their lives. Recently, you tested whether you made the right decision, briefly, with your daughters, who are old enough to withstand the brief test without permanent damage. As it turned out, you were right. Your father was as evil to young women as young women. Plainly, he had been as evil to you as you remembered. So you don't need to doubt yourself. And--your mother let him do it. Your sweet mother was an adult who made that choice, and makes it still.
She still chooses him over you.
She knows where you live. She knows you would give her money for a train. So don't fool yourself that you are deserting her. She has already deserted you. And she has done it thousands and thousands of times, since you were a small, small girl.
The real mother you needed, and the real mother you got, lives in your house. It lives inside of you. You are that courageous woman. The woman who got away and made a good life for her own daughters.

Pinksandgrey · 19/08/2020 14:18

his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!

Not over sensitive at all - you are merely setting boundaries.

I endorse what others are saying about ceasing contact.

TheGodmother · 19/08/2020 14:18

I have had more support and love from this thread than I have in forty six years.

This made me cry. OP you sound an amazing woman and mother. Your children are blessed to have you loving them ❤️

Justmuddlingalong · 19/08/2020 14:19

Hopefully this won't happen, but be aware that it might. Your DM might defend your DDad and ask you to allow contact with him and your DDs' because she might be afraid the abuse will be turned on her. And she may also defend his behaviour because she is rightfully mortified that you have the strength to defend your kids when she didn't.

differentnameforthis · 19/08/2020 14:19

I think you really need to think about your mum's place in all this...

What did she do to protect you as a child?
What is she doing now to protect your kids?

He sounds horrible, but she is complicit if she doesn't do/say anything.

redastherose · 19/08/2020 14:21

OP you really need to find a new counsellor! Seek out someone who has experience of DV and abusive relationships in general not all counsellors do. PP's are right, I know you don't want to admit it not even to yourself, but your DM was in a way just as abusive as your F. The Golden Child/Scapegoat dynamic is very very damaging for children and she made you the Scapegoat. Never forget that! You were there to take beatings and she allowed that to happen and didn't protect you in favour of your brother. If you could see a proper counsellor I am sure you will come to the same conclusions that many of the PP's on here have and will be able to remove any feelings of guilt you may have about going properly NC with both of them. Just remember even now your mother has it in her power to walk away from her abusive partner but you as a small child had no way of doing so.

pushchairprincess · 19/08/2020 14:21

What an awful position you are in OP, I would not visit at all with your children - what awful memories you have (I can relate - my father was similar - however he died many years ago of alcoholism - so I got off lightly - my sister however did not - she has bouts of depression and has had suicide attempts because of the bad memories)
You are a strong person, and have made a life without this man, who sounds like he is bordering a paedophile (if he is not already)
Protect your love ones - is there any way your mum will be able to have contact away from the home.

Much love OP

Timekeeper2 · 19/08/2020 14:22

I truly feel for you, you've been through absolute hell and are still going through it. What happened to you was absolutely unforgivable.

What I don't understand though, is what role your DH is playing? Why hasn't he stood up for you, and his daughters? My husband would have had a word with my father and threatened to knock his block off if he ever made any inappropriate move or word on our DC or me. Where is your DH in all of this? You barely mention him and he seems to have little to no input whatsoever into how your father treats his daughters. I am just surprised that's all as your DH is not behaving like a protective father either, imo. Just in the other direction. I don't know of any husband/father who wouldn't have put your father in his place long ago and nipped his behaviour in the bud. Have you always had to deal with your father's behaviour to your DDs and yourself alone, without your DH's input? Your DH is their father, he is 50% their parent too, this should not be all on you to deal with your father's abusive behaviour towards DDs.

piscean10 · 19/08/2020 14:24

I think there were two abusers but you seem to only lay accountability to one. Your mother was the passive abuser. How could a mother stand by and allow this?? Why are you not asking yourself this? If your dh did this to your kids can you imagine standing by?
Theres no doubt that your father was abusive and that easy enough to decide to go NC. But what about your mother?
You are subjecting your kids to both of them, thinking your mother was a good mother deserving your kids. But actually no. And she is still with him! OP she was NOT a good mother.
I think if you are really honest with yourself, you will find it easier to never allow them around your kids.
'The light of her life' - oh she has manipulated you and it's worked.
Why were her kids not the light of her life? Not loved enough to protect?

differentnameforthis · 19/08/2020 14:26

@Friendsoftheearth

Please protect your children - it’s a sign of how deeply damaged you are from your own upbringing that you’re even questioning whether this is wrong or not

Yes, because I question myself and my own judgement because he spent seventeen years hitting me, belittling me and terrifying me. He was an absolute monster actually, so compared to how he used to be, he does seem better. I am not sure I am explaining this well.

This IS his best behaviour believe or not.

Nope... not 17yrs...he is STILL doing it. The remarks about your daughters - designed to hurt YOU.

You are an adult now, and he is aware that his remarks probably have limited impact when they are aimed at you, so he is hurting your girls to hurt you.

For yourself, your girls...walk away. IF you and your girls are the light in your mother's life, she needs to think about how she is letting you all be treated and do something about it.

MMN123 · 19/08/2020 14:26

And I wouldn’t seek CBT specifically - find a qualified therapist in your area and they are best placed to advise what will help.

You don’t need to take a big stand. Just say the kids didn’t fancy coming “you know what teenagers are like” and make your own visits as short as you like. Or not at all. Whatever works for you. See them only when and if you want to.

HelloHolaGutenMorgen · 19/08/2020 14:27

I feel very sorry for your mother, but you need to be strong like she couldn't be. Don't take your girls, that's awful. Is he abusive to your mother?

I agree with taking your mum round to yours in the car.

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