Sexual harassment is an almost universal experience for women

[severeine]

I was having a conversation with a well-meaning male friend who was struggling to believe this. I think it is a case of not realising because he hasn't asked/spoken to enough women and isn't a perpetrator himself. For most women I think it is for to say this starts well before even the teen years and persists for 3 or more decades. I have experienced it myself, from school to work, in random situations and still do now. You don't need to be attractive, I am I suppose what you'd call average, you just need to be a woman, ideally unaccompanied. I was talking to one female friend who was harassed every single day by strangers when she lived in Paris, which is one place I've heard of it happening a lot, only it is everywhere. I wonder what your experiences have been?

I spent my twenties in Paris and the harassment was intense. I was even spat on a few times (in the face), followed, and had objects thrown at me. The vast majority of my harassers (and we’re talking hundreds over the years) were of North African origin and had massive issues with women.

A few years ago I would have said that I had never been sexually harassed but after I read a thread on here I realised I had been flashed as a child, constant bra pinging in school, called frigid for turning a guy down, bum groped in clubs, hands on waist to pass by, hand up my skirt once, hissed at (happened more when abroad), catcalled on the streets, woke up twice to a male friend groping me.

I don't think I know a single girl who hasn't experiences something like this. It's just so fucking depressing! It doesn't happen much anymore as I'm with DP or kids and don't go to bars very often but I wasn't a particularly attractive teen, flat chested and boyish looking.

I had a boss once who would flick my ponytail when he passed behind me, would give me these creepy smiles and then at my one to one, he briefly put his hand on my knee. He was one of the main reasons I left that job. I was around 20 and very naive/confrontation-avoidant, he was mid-late forties.

I spent my twenties in Paris and the harassment was intense. I was even spat on a few times (in the face), followed, and had objects thrown at me. The vast majority of my harassers (and we’re talking hundreds over the years) were of North African origin and had massive issues with women.

Yes! I did a gap year in Paris. My friend got punched in the face because she ignored a cat call. I was followed 3 times, once on the RER, twice on the tube. The one on the RER being especially frightening as he tried to sexually assault me on the train in full view of other passengers who did nothing. I also got surrounded by 4 North African men whilst at an ATM. I also had someone follow me through the streets (in Pigalle) and walked next me me silent staring at me the whole time as I was trying to cross to get away from him. Had to hide out in a cafe to escape!

Ha agree OP, at the height of #metoo not one but two older male colleagues mansplained the issue to me, both looked totally shocked when I said that it happened all the time, and wasn't a Hollywood issue. Lots of shuffling about looking embarrassed when I explained some things I'd seen at the workplace (not from them I should add).

I commented earlier that I had not experienced this. I find it shoddy that fellow women don’t believe me, and a few others, when we say we have not experienced this.

No man has ever groped, assaulted, raped, leered at, catcalled, bra pinged, been inappropriate at work etc. It’s not a case of these things happening but I’m not bothered by it as a pp intimated, they have simply never happened. I have always been invisible to men until I met my DH at quite a late age.

It’s absolutely shocking what happens to many, many women, but please don’t assume that every women experiences this and disbelieve when some say this has not yet happened to me.

It started at 11 when I started to go through puberty. Adult men commenting on my developing breasts. School boys feeling me up in the back of class. Then at school I was deemed ‘unfuckable’, which rather than escaping the abuse meant I got told how unfuckable I was, how manly I was. As I got to about 14/15, teenagers still thought I was unfuckable and told me so. Adult men, however, not so much. I was in prime wank bank position and was told as much. At 15 I was sexually harassed in front of my family (they didn’t hear) by a family friend, who told me I should feel special that I’m the only thing he’s wanted to fuck recently. At age 20, I slipped from ‘curvy’ to ‘fat’, I didn’t get cat-called anymore but men loved to tell me I’m fat. I lost the weight a few years ago, I noticed there’s a trigger point - less than a size 14 - and suddenly you’re back to being cat called, having cars honk at you or slowing down as you walk by yourself. Cars never honked me or slowed down when I was with my husband. I’ve put the weight back on now and I’m back to being told by men how fat and disgusting I am by men. When I was a ‘fuckable’ size I have comments made to me, been leered or touched without consent in England, Wales, Cuba, Greece, Cyprus, France. With most of those occurring when I was a teenager.

I don't disbelieve anyone, but have read plenty of comments on other threads from women who don't mind the wolf whistling etc. So it has happened to them, but they don't mind. That's different to it never happening at all. If it hasn't happened to you that's good.

Yep. Continually from age 12-25. Then I became anorexic so it stopped for a bit. It's started up again since I've been in recovery (and have got my boobs back) but it's nowhere near as bad...because I've developed a resting bitch face

Worst places for it? India, Greece, Italy, many London clubs. A man in Lemmington Spa Macdonalds asked me to suck him off when I was 13. It's bad everywhere

And as I said, I used to think it hadn't happened to me but I was mistaken. Others may not be.

@LioneIRichTea

I spent my twenties in Paris and the harassment was intense. I was even spat on a few times (in the face), followed, and had objects thrown at me. The vast majority of my harassers (and we’re talking hundreds over the years) were of North African origin and had massive issues with women.

Yes! I did a gap year in Paris. My friend got punched in the face because she ignored a cat call. I was followed 3 times, once on the RER, twice on the tube. The one on the RER being especially frightening as he tried to sexually assault me on the train in full view of other passengers who did nothing. I also got surrounded by 4 North African men whilst at an ATM. I also had someone follow me through the streets (in Pigalle) and walked next me me silent staring at me the whole time as I was trying to cross to get away from him. Had to hide out in a cafe to escape!

A friend of mine had both her femurs broken in Gare du Nord on a Saturday around 6pm by 2 men she'd ignored who followed her, knocked her down and deliberately stamped on her thighs to break her legs. It takes a huge amount of force to break a femur like that, it was deliberate just because she wasn't interested in them.

I don't know a single woman who has never been harrassed or assaulted.

@Emeeno1

I can honestly say I have not experienced this.

I have been a lone runner, a long distance commuter in to London and walked home alone many times at night and I have never experienced sexual harassment.

What do you class as sexual harassment out of interest?

I remember that creepy handshake older men used to do when I was early teens. The one where they would tickle your palm. I didn't know what it meant until a thread on here. Dirty bastards.

Well, now that they’ve watered down the definition it’s a universal experience. But the original meaning of sexual harassment was that it was literally a requirement to engage in sex acts in order to keep your job or to obtain a promotion/raise/good performance rating. Since #metoo it’s been watered down to even a funny look from a strange man on the street.

Like it used to be that there was no such thing as rape in marriage?

A friend of mine had both her femurs broken in Gare du Nord on a Saturday around 6pm by 2 men she'd ignored who followed her, knocked her down and deliberately stamped on her thighs to break her legs.

Jesus @HavelockVetinari that’s horrific! I’m shocked and appalled but not surprised. I’ve visited many places and somehow Paris was just the worst!

YANBU. Countless times from the age of 13. I’m glad I’m late 40s now as I’m finally invisible to most of the pervs.

@PlanDeRaccordement but women are harassed on the basis of their sex, in a sexual manner/relating to sex without a sex act being performed. What else would you call it if not sexual harassment?

@PlanDeRaccordement

Well, now that they’ve watered down the definition it’s a universal experience. But the original meaning of sexual harassment was that it was literally a requirement to engage in sex acts in order to keep your job or to obtain a promotion/raise/good performance rating. Since #metoo it’s been watered down to even a funny look from a strange man on the street.

Maybe they have watered ‘sexual harassment’ down to encompass funny looks from strange men. However, I’m pretty sure there isn’t a thread of men saying they were having their dicks groped at age 11. How they didn’t feel safe at 11 because of the way some woman was staring at them on the train. That they were scared to walk home alone in case an older woman attacked them. At the time of posting this comment there were 92 comments on this thread. Having read the comments, I would say less than 5% are saying they haven’t experienced anything, not even funny looks from a strange man on the street, the rest are telling stories of inappropriate comments, inappropriate touching, or worse being violently or sexually attacked. Do you have a better name for it?

I remember at primary school a boy in my class fancied me and he would grab me and “bonk” me - thrust his groin at me and say “bonk!”. I hated it and would run away and he would chase me.

Yes of course I’ve been harassed throughout my entire life. Shouted at from cars, groped in clubs, grabbed on the train, told to smile on the street, Chased down the road by a man shouting “give me your number love”, men stealing my phone to put their number in or calling their phones to get my number then sending me lewd texts the next day. I’m not even attractive I’ve always been overweight and a bit funny looking...

Yes. Obscene phone calls when I was a young teenager (12?) - made by someone who knew me, but I never found out who it was. Being groped on a beach and in a hotel gym. And many of the type that can feel ambiguous in the moment: people brushing past in a pub or club and whose hand just happens to linger against your bum, boob, etc for a split second. Oh and have come across a couple of flashers in my life too.

I’m just saying a historical fact, the definition of sexual harassment has been watered down. It’s not a judgement. Just a statement.

No idea what the other stuff should be called.

Never anything passing a building site? not once?

I'm a bloke and I remember one of my early jobs was as a dogsbody on a building site. I spent a lot of time in a van/truck helping with material deliveries. I was 14 at the time and I rember the driver would beep the horn everytime he passed a girl/woman on the street. Occasionally he would wind down the window and shout something of the show us your tits variety. I was just really embarrassed and not brave enough to say something to this gnarly tough bloke. He soon twigged I was not exactly on board with his high brow japes so just told everyone on site that I was a poofta.

However, I’m pretty sure there isn’t a thread of men saying they were having their dicks groped at age 11. How they didn’t feel safe at 11 because of the way some woman was staring at them on the train. That they were scared to walk home alone in case an older woman attacked them.

And yet I am sure there are men who were groped at age 11, and didn’t feel safe on the train or waking home alone for fear of being attacked. After all, boys/men are 3x more likely than women to be physically assaulted or murdered than women.

@LioneIRichTea

I spent my twenties in Paris and the harassment was intense. I was even spat on a few times (in the face), followed, and had objects thrown at me. The vast majority of my harassers (and we’re talking hundreds over the years) were of North African origin and had massive issues with women.

Yes! I did a gap year in Paris. My friend got punched in the face because she ignored a cat call. I was followed 3 times, once on the RER, twice on the tube. The one on the RER being especially frightening as he tried to sexually assault me on the train in full view of other passengers who did nothing. I also got surrounded by 4 North African men whilst at an ATM. I also had someone follow me through the streets (in Pigalle) and walked next me me silent staring at me the whole time as I was trying to cross to get away from him. Had to hide out in a cafe to escape!

OMG is it still like that? I experienced exactly the same thing in the seventies when I did a year abroad as part of my degree - being followed, catcalled, groped on the Metro. I dreaded seeing either a lone male or a group of young males and would try and walk a different way. It took me a while to readjust to life in the UK when I came back.

Plus ça change ...

"They" have watered down the definition have they?
God, it's not like the old days, when a man could comment on a 13 year old girls tits in the street and it was just "a compliment". Especially when he tried to follow her home and offered her money to suck him off. Banter!
Or a group of lads could edge a lone woman against a wall and try to get their hands up her skirt "for a laugh". (Their laughs obvs)
Or a harmless flasher could expose his penis to a young woman in a secluded place and follow her, wanking himself off.
Damn women, re-classifying sexual harassment. Ruins everyone's fun. Political correctness gone mad.