Sexual harassment is an almost universal experience for women

[severeine]

I was having a conversation with a well-meaning male friend who was struggling to believe this. I think it is a case of not realising because he hasn't asked/spoken to enough women and isn't a perpetrator himself. For most women I think it is for to say this starts well before even the teen years and persists for 3 or more decades. I have experienced it myself, from school to work, in random situations and still do now. You don't need to be attractive, I am I suppose what you'd call average, you just need to be a woman, ideally unaccompanied. I was talking to one female friend who was harassed every single day by strangers when she lived in Paris, which is one place I've heard of it happening a lot, only it is everywhere. I wonder what your experiences have been?

Yes, I'd say almost every woman has experienced this. I don't really anymore as a 40 year old mum of 2 and it's a relief.

I think a lot of men, and no women, would be genuinely shocked by the level of harassment endured day in and out by women.
I'd say it started around age 8 and significantly slowed once I hit my 40's. Once I got older the harassment was replaced by sex discrimination.

I always assumed it's universal and yes my DB and my DH have trouble believing the extent of it, get very uncomfortable if I recount my experiences and engage in what aboutery.

Apparently DH was once propositioned by a gay guy at Kings Cross station. As I explained to him that is nothing to what I have had all my life: sexually assaulted by 2 employers at casual jobs in my late teens/ early 20s, stalked on 2 occasions and sexually harassed (verbal and touching) on many by patients and relatives at my workplace, propositioned by random men whilst minding my own business in a library, on public transport, in cafes etc, wolf whistled and cat called by blokes in cars and on building sites. Etc etc etc

I am completely ordinary looking and dress fairly conservatively. I don't get the on street harassment now I am in my 40s but I have been amazed how many pervs are still undeterred by my age or my wedding ring. Any time I am travelling alone, eating alone or at a work conference I am not surprised if some bloke tries it on. It's not every single time but it's still fairly regular. They sit next to me when the whole carriage/ cafe is empty and try to strike up conversations. Occasionally if alcohol is involved it will progress to invitations to go back to their room.
The only time I am immune is if I am with a man or with my kids.

2 yrs ago I went to an awards dinner. Got dolled up and went on the train on my own. Big mistake. The male colleague I went with tried it on, so did the random guy I sat next to at dinner and another in the bar afterwards. I was so sick of it I went home early but a guy on the train home sat next to me despite many free seats and suggested we share a taxi to his place where he would give me a massage which obviously I declined. I was still trapped sitting next to him all journey. When I told DH about it he didn't really believe me and thought I was making it up or reading people wrong. That's why I don't tell him about one of his (married) mates who always flirts with me any time we see them and if drunk will try to touch me under the table.

I used to think it was my fault. I was doing something wrong, sending out the wrong signals and these men really thought I might appreciate their advances. Now I see it as their fault entirely. They don't care what I think or feel. They just believe they are entitled essentially to sex with any woman and they would do this to anyone. A lot of them were in positions of power eg my employers and the guy at the award dinner. They knew it would be hard for me to object. Even random guys on trains and buses they know they are physically able to impose themselves.

I used to quite like a night away in a nice hotel at a conference. Great excuse for a break from the kids etc but I always go home the same day now if I can and never go to any dinners. I have room service if I have to stay. I would like to travel on my own, eat on my own, see a movie on my own but for me it's always ruined by these idiots who think a woman on her own wants sex with them.

I've tried all that walking away, moving out of the field of vision. They follow you. There is no getting away from it. I walk at apace that is close to running, always wear shoes that I can run in, but men are often faster and bigger. I even get it in my car when driving, I've had men stop their cars blocking me from going by. It's better if I have my 6 ft tall 17 year old ds sat next to me.

I first experienced this in Spain on holiday when aged 17. Then in London aged 19. I am now in my fifties but still occasionally get harassment.

Forgot to also mention I was flashed at in a park at the mere age of 11.

When girls are young they don't know how to react which gives the impression of fear and vulnerability which these men expect. When we grow into women and learn how to react, they run a mile. Two examples, both a year or two ago, 1).A summer afternoon, walking home with my shopping bags, along a busy street and this person comes up behind me and says "I want to fck you" . I replied " what, here? Now? Don't you think the others would notice if we did that?" He was gone in a flash! 2). Same street, mid afternoon, the guy was obviously drunk or high, same offer "I want to fck you". Me: " I know just the place" (My local was only a few doors down, I know the punters / staff they know me). He followed me to he door, I said "okay, but if you put one foot over this threshhold I guarantee you will not get out of here alive" I've never seen anyone run so fast!

YANBU. Started from about 12/13 and have experienced many incidents of sexual harassment throughout my life, too many to remember, some minor sexual assaults as a teen. Not really now as I'm 41 with a resting bitch face but I do worry for my daughter.

I do think that I'll start to prepare my daughter for this from a young age, teach her not to meekly accept situations in the way that I did and to speak up.

I remember when I was about 13 and a teacher witnessed a boy sort of pin me against the wall and her telling me that I should tell them no, but that was it. A few weeks later the same boy shoved his hand down my pants while his mate held my arms. It didn't really cross my mind that I could have told someone about them or that they could get in trouble for something like that.

I remember a male friend arriving one evening all distressed because he had just been propositioned by a woman in the street....he said he felt shocked and sickened as nothing like that had happened to him before.

I explained to him then that women faced comparable situations regularly and at least he didn't feel at physical risk the way women do. I don't think it really registered...it was obviously a big enough issue that he wanted to talk about it whereas I didn't normally bother reporting my harassment incidents to anyone as they were just so commonplace.

When I told DH about it he didn't really believe me and thought I was making it up or reading people wrong. That's why I don't tell him about one of his (married) mates who always flirts with me any time we see them and if drunk will try to touch me under the table.

Just interested in why you don't tell him this. Do you think he won't believe you? I don't think I could have stopped myself telling him in these circumstances, but then I always did have a big mouth.

I think DH won't believe me or will think I have misread the situation.
DH is the sweetest guy alive and totally non-threatening which is why I am with him. He would never do this and is bewildered that other men do especially ones who are his mates. He is never going to leap to defend my honour and I don't really expect that from him. I basically don't want to rock his world and upset him so I just avoid this guy as much as possible.

This guy definitely flirts with me. Talks about what I look like and what I am wearing etc. They got a hot tub recently 'oh you'll have to come round and try it out. Make sure to bring your bikini [leer]

Sat next to me at a group night out and was leering down my top all night, touching/ stroking my arm and put his hand on my leg under the table (which I removed)

DH and his wife plus a load of other friends were all at the same table but still he felt entitled to behave like this. He thinks he is the big alpha male of the group and can have who he likes. I will not play that kind of game.

He sounds quite sickening - I bet you try not to sit or stand near him.

@Theld that’s really sad that you think you’re husband wouldn’t believe you even with his ‘friend’ acting so blatantly

My Dp is a shy sweet man too - I wouldn’t expect him to defend me either, but I know he would believe what I told him and wouldn’t minimize it

^typo on you’re to your

Yanbu I have experienced on a lot of occasions. In the street, work, holidays nearly everywhere. Mainly as a teen and in my 20s and well really up until the last 8 years maybe I'm 38 now. Since being a sahm mum I've thankfully had a lot less. Talking to female friends and being with friends when it's happened to them it was just part of life.. how sad is that.

I think it's sort of a defence for DH. He doesn't want to believe it or he would have to deal with it and this guy is very much the alpha of the group. He pushes DH around about other stuff too. I have tried telling him before (plus it is quite blatant and he could see for himself if he wanted to) and have been disappointed that he minimised it. 'Oh that's just what x is like, he's just being friendly. He would never do anything, he's happily married'
I personally think if he had half a chance he would.

I know it makes DH sound bad but we all have our faults and this is minor really. I accept he isn't a defending my honour kind of guy. I chose him in full knowledge of that. I have had boyfriends who were more likely to rush to my aid before and that had its own set of problems eg. not being able to accept genuine male friends. I would rather not be anyone's possession I don't see that as an advance. I wish women could just have the freedom that men do not to be sexually harassed.

Don't we all.

I definitely don't think all men do this though. Some are decent.

@heartsonacake

I’ve never experienced it and after conversations with friends in the past they haven’t either.

It doesn’t happen to every single woman.

You've never experienced a man put his hands on your waist to get past you , place their hand on the small of your back , insist on kissing you hello in a social setting but don't kiss the other males in your groups?

As a man, I regret to say I have to agree with you OP.

*I’ve never experienced it and after conversations with friends in the past they haven’t either.

It doesn’t happen to every single woman.*

How would you know that about your friends? I certainly haven't told all my friends about the childhood SA I went through.

Well this kind of shit has also happened to me.

As an aside, what I really don’t understand when I read threads like this is how they fit together with threads where:

1. hundreds of posters will insist it’s fine for girls to do cartwheels with just a floaty dress and knickers. Even girls who are higher in primary and developing. Because it’s their right and the reactions of men are ‘their own problem’. Similarly women want to “free the nipple”. How does this match up with what’s stated on this thread? Many posters were harassed since primary age by random men. I certainly was. Men leered at the gates of my school and the school had to put boards on the gates so passers by couldn’t leer at kids.

2. threads where posters think it’s right for kids, let’s say aged 10-13 to be able to go out on their own. How does this match up with the info about how men behave on this thread?

@ekidmxcl

I would say for 2) I was harassed even if I was out with my mum! She taught me to talk back/yell for help from strangers if needed. Also if I was out at 10-13 I was always with friends and we banded together. It’s a grim world out there but cant stay inside not living life forever.