to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

• @Venicelover

If you choose to have a family then between you it is necessary to ensure that you have provision for childcare. If you outsource that and something such as this occurs then you have to face the issue that one of you needs to be there for the children if no one else is available.

We both have well paid careers and are university-educated but when our kids were small we worked our roles around the needs of the family. If necessary, in this type of circumstance one of us would have had no option but to put their career on hold to look after the kids, which were our first priority.

Perhaps other would choose differently, but my point is that we all have choices, some of which are not particularly palatable.*

You come across as really, exceptionally hard of thinking. Do you realise that ‘one of you being there for the children’ in these circumstances where no other childcare option is available would mean poverty? You know, no food, homelessness? Hardly putting the children ‘top of the agenda’.

@Hercwasonaroll

But with something more serious I suspect the parent would be in severe trouble if they did lie.

Nope. They haven't done anything illegal. Just morally wrong.

Hahahahaha! You think you know all don’t you? Not long after the coughing incident.... there was soon a law made. It’s constant negativity and unrealistic ideas you have. Just say it that you would rather schools shut because things are not happening the way you would like.

Loving some posters sat in their ivory tower, pontificating about how parents should just put their careers on hold if their childcare provision goes to shit.

Meanwhile, in the real word, where it more than often takes two salaries to afford a mortgage and to put food on the table, it’s not quite that simple.

Nobody ever said at any point “ah, I’d better not get a job when my child starts going to school because one day there might be a global pandemic which will force the schools to shut and I won’t be able to work AND parent at the same time”

I get the frustrations from teachers re: lack of PPE and schools not opening safely etc - but don’t hate on parents who rely on school for childcare as well as education.

And I say this as someone who sends my 2 year old to nursery, that has been open since June and as someone who has been able to work flexibly since then AND could afford to give up my job if I absolutely had to. I understand that I am a very fortunate minority.

I definitely understand why parents need to get back to work and therefore need their dcs to go to school. But I cannot fathom why people would object so strongly enough to the PPE. I know people have explained why, and thank you, but I still cannot get my head around why, if you are likely to lose your career if your kids don't stay in school, you would be so stupid as to object to PPE which might help keep schools open. That is insanity.

The cost thing is ridiculous. If getting parents back to work is supposed to help the economy, the cost of PPE would pale in significance to what the country stands to lose if schools can't stay open.

I actually disagree that teachers will bear the brunt of it if they do close btw. I think this would be a huge fuck up for this government. Bunch of fucking clowns.

@mbosnz

To be fair, there is a real problem with the way schools are required to chastise parents after a certain amount of absence. Particularly in the current situation. Parents have a lot of pressure to send their kids to school if they're not broken or bleeding. Is that going to be changed at all? Because if not, then again, parents and schools are going to be pitted against each other.

I agree. There needs to be greater flexibility. Then again I've always hated the idea of attendance awards/certificates etc as unfair to those with health conditions.

I dont recall this outrage for carers when there was no ppe for elderly care or vulnerable adults. Maybe we should have expected family to step in and stayed home.

There was outrage. Locally people sewed hundreds of cloth masks for care homes and in home carers.

@mbosnz

To be fair, there is a real problem with the way schools are required to chastise parents after a certain amount of absence. Particularly in the current situation. Parents have a lot of pressure to send their kids to school if they're not broken or bleeding. Is that going to be changed at all? Because if not, then again, parents and schools are going to be pitted against each other.

This is very true in the normal run of things. I hope that I wouldn't be fined for non-attendance if it was a covid related absence, but given the "computer says no" system foisted on our schools (I don't think teachers like it either) I wouldn't like to guarantee it.

But I genuinely think (dons tin foil hat) that this is a quite deliberate divide and conquer strategy. Get the nation's teachers and the nation's parents blaming each other so that no-one remembers to hold the government to account.

Teachers can't work this way - classes of 30 pupils who can't be socially distanced in the facilities we've got.

Parents can't cope economically without schools open - we will start losing our jobs in huge numbers.

Children can't cope without qualified teachers teaching them, and without social interaction with their peers.

The government is twiddling its thumbs being useless while all of this happens.

SueEllenMishke

Why are you posting "if schools don't open" we are way past that.

The problem is if they have to shutdown for some reason.

You know like bubbles bursting, not enough staff etc.

@WeakAsIAm

@Iamnotthe1

Sorry but, again, could you direct me to one post where a teacher has said that schools should not open until therebis a vaccine? I'd really appreciate it - thanks!

Good a break through, so you're all happy then? End of thread See you at the gates in 2 weeks. Bright eyed and bushy tailed no doubt

I asked if you could direct me to a post where a teacher had said that schools shouldn't open until there was a vaccine, as you claimed. Are you unable to do this?

I will be there as I have been since the start of June and was every other week during the initial key worker care. In fact, I'm in from next Monday to get things ready for the children so we can have the smoothest start possible.

*Why would/should it be women?

If you are in a partnership, it should be a discussion and decided from there. It should not be a given that the woman stays at home.

If you can't do that you picked the wrong man.*

Moronic.

@Bananabread8 Please point me to the bit of the law that says its illegal to send a child into school without a negative covid test if they have symptoms? Because IF it exists it would save a lot of worrying by teachers.

(I'll save you time, there is no such law).

@Venicelover. We can live in cloud cuckoo land and blame women for their relationships being unequal in many cases or we can accept that the reality of relationships is societally conditioned. The gender pay gap, maternity leave, attitudes to flexible working requests and SAHDs and maternal guilt are only a few of the factors which mean that women already do a "double shift". And now we want them to do a "triple shift" and drive them to the very edge of what they can cope with. The least we could do for them is not blame them for situations which often can't be helped.

Who in your bizarre scenario is the hostile adult?
Are Us4them coming in or something?

Generally people who have been forced into what they perceive as a risky environment against their personal choice do not tend to maintain a happy go lucky demeanour IME.

As for Us4them??? I'm not familiar with rent a mob groups like you, I obviously run in different circles. So I can only assume that was your attempt at humour.

@Hercwasonaroll

I dont recall this outrage for carers when there was no ppe for elderly care or vulnerable adults. Maybe we should have expected family to step in and stayed home.

There was outrage. Locally people sewed hundreds of cloth masks for care homes and in home carers.

There was outrage. Of course there was! That was outrageous too and people were...well, outraged. Rightly so. This is even worse in a way, because there isnt a shortage of PPE anymore. Back then, it wasn't because the government didn't want to provide it. They just couldn't get it.

venicelover my DH is fabulous. We're a proper team and always have been.
However, he earns double my salary. If one of us had to give up work it would have to be me. Any other scenario would see us in a significantly worse position financially. Plus neither of us could work part time - we wouldn't be granted it plus it would be career suicide.

@Venicelover in our family it would be me that stopped work if one of us was to have to. I’m a childminder, out of my families, the lowest income is brought in by the mother in 6 cases, 2 the lowest is he father and 1 family I couldn’t tell you. (Based on what jobs they all do and also how much their childcare tax voucher things are for -different amounts for different wage brackets so I have a rough idea).
So for the vast amount of families, I would say it will be the mother finishing work to do the childcare. Most families could/would not sacrifice the higher wage earner I don’t think.

@DianasLasso a very good point there re the government sitting by watching parents versus teachers..interesting.

@spanieleyes

And as to medical confidentiality, I know the medical conditions of every child in my school, the medication they take, the treatment they need, the symptoms they might have, the side effects and consequences. But I'm not allowed to know if they have tested negative for Covid!

How do you know? Because the parent probably has no choice but to involve you in that process. In order for the child to have the meds that are needed. Realistically the kids would need testing every week it’s ridiculous! COVID-19 is not a one off thing it looks like it’s going to be around for some time.

I have already exhausted my back up plan: I left my job at the beginning of July because working full time and homeschooling and childcare was simply too much. I could only juggle it for 3 months+ but not more.

I am now starting a new part time job in September when schools go back. The new job fits mostly into the reduced school hours and after school clubs are no longer accessible to me (you have to have two parents working full time in order to apply for them - so one parent working full time and one 30 hours a week disqualified me from applying).

My new arrangement will be of no use however if schools close again for 5 months or longer. How many back up plans am I supposed to have?

SueEllenMishke
Why is nobody concerned that it will be women that are impacted most by this. They will be the ones sacrificing their careers.
Why aren't more people angry about this?

Apparently teachers are not allowed to be angry that schools may have to close due to inadequate safety measures.

Go figure.

@FrippEnos

SueEllenMishke

Why are you posting "if schools don't open" we are way past that.

The problem is if they have to shutdown for some reason.

You know like bubbles bursting, not enough staff etc.

I get it. I work in education...

Teachers won’t be resigning. It’s their career. Not as if they can resign and go work in another school, as all in the same situation. What will the teachers do once they’ve resignedThere are no jobs. We are in a recession.

@WeakAsIAm
Generally people who have been forced into what they perceive as a risky environment against their personal choice do not tend to maintain a happy go lucky demeanour IME.

Teaching is a performance job. I shall be smiley, bouncy, happy and enthusiastic even if, inside, I'm feeling unsure or unsafe.

If you can't do that you picked the wrong man

Or you happen to live in a patriarchal, inherently
Misogynistic society whereby the man earns far more than the woman and so it would never made financial sense for the man to give up work 🤔

Quite a few teachers have resigned already