to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

[quote Iamnotthe1]@askmehowiknow
You really honestly think the country will continue with isolating all contacts for 14 days?!

l mean I'd be in full pay and would love the time at home! Same as you I assume.

You think our fragile economy would cope?

You think kids would cope with another school year interrupted by a virus that is virtually no risk for them?

Have you seen the news? The economy is shit. Exam results are shit. We can't do this anymore. Sorry!

If we want to control the spread of the virus and prevent/lower the extent of any second wave, yes we will continue.

I'd be working from home if isolated, as I was for the seven weeks that my class wasn't in the building (aside from the weeks that I ran key worker provision)

I agree - we can't continue like this. That's why I presume that you are proactively supporting the call for more secure measures to be in place in order to reduce the likelihood of schools closing in any form. Or are you choosing to deny science, stick your fingers in your ears and just... hope?[/quote]
Do you really not get it 🤦‍♀️. If teachers are working from home their bubble or whatever is at home. Right? So 300 ? (mums) would need to be at home. It just can't continue to happen

There aren’t any spare adults in school, do you think a reception class of 4/5 year olds can be left unsupervised for 6 hours? Part of me would love to see what they would get up to, but the sensible part of me wouldn’t.

Children in school are not critically ill and need unbroken supervision

The law disagrees with you there.

I will teach my students for as long as I'm able, be that due to illness or my own DCs' school having to close

So OP will be happy to join the queue for state benefits when she has to give work up because she can’t work because her kids can’t go to school.

Looks like you’ll be meeting a lot of us there by the sounds of it

@WeakAsIAm

*And how would you adapt that if yout patient couldn't be left alone for any period of time and, if you did leave them alone, you could/would be dismissed?

Or do you recognise that your analogy isn't a copy and paste job over the top of schools as both centres function very differently?*

The reality is that it is adapted you do leave the critical patient, or your colleague with a less critical patient leaves theirs. Reality, every day.

Children in school are not critically ill and need unbroken supervision, if your class does I imagine the entire school could find someone more available.

I do agree both do function differently, yet to meet a health professional who chooses not to fulfil their job description and ask the population to support them in the decision.

Children in primary school do require unbroken supervision. That's not option - if you leave the class and something happens, you can and will be dismissed and found liable legally.

I've yet to see a teacher state that they aren't going to fulfil their job description. We all want schools back; we just want them back as safely as possible in a sustainable way. Perhaps I've missed it - could you highlight to me where a teacher has said they will choose not to fulfil their legal obligations? (Incidently, me leaving my class alone in order to supervise or teach another class would be me not fulfilling my legal obligations).

@Ultimatecougar

I am sick of hearing that ' school isn't childcare '. I can assure you that if a single parent is interviewed by the DWP about getting a job that school is very much seen as childcare. No excuses.

This can you imagine!

‘No, I can’t work because school isn’t child care - I have no plan B’

@askmehowiknow
Do you really not get it 🤦‍♀️. If teachers are working from home their bubble or whatever is at home. Right? So 300 ? (mums) would need to be at home. It just can't continue to happen

So you agree that there needs to be better protective measures in schools so that the likelihood of any closure is reduced. That's the logical extension of the perspective you are arguing from.

@Reluctantcavedweller

Let's been honest here....The natural consequence of what the OP and many on here are advocating is that we move back to a single-earner household model so there is always a parent at home to look after the children...All the "parents should parent" rubbish essentially boils down to this.

Aside from the message this gives to girls in a society where it is largely mothers who carry the can for caring, there's going to be hell of an economic shock as we transition to that model.

This. I wonder how many teachers are preparing to give work up to look after their kids..

Zero.

@WeakAsIAm

*OK. So say the teacher in the class next door is ill, so her 32 pupils need a teacher. I am in my separate class, with 33. It is 8.30 am, every teacher is with their own class. Nobody is on a break, and every child comes to school for the same times, so there isn't an opportunity to e.g. teach that class in a 'second shift' from 3.30-9.

How is that class covered?

Not to mention the fact that the other class is a separate bubble, so in fact the classes cannot merge for infection control purposes.....*

Yeah you're right it's impossible, when I'm at work if the patient next to mine doesn't have a nurse because they're off sick then fuck them. Not getting antibiotics? - not my problem, needs fluids? - who cares, deteriorating? - so what!!!
I can't go between patients we have infection control too (we've always had it).
oh no wait I change PPE , wash my hands and deliver care to both. Oh and I do it for 12 hour shifts not just a 50 min lesson.

Dick measuring contests with the phallically challenged. Jog on

You're absolutely right.

Of course teachers can support two classes at the same time, just needs a rethink of typical practice.

safely
This is a weasel word that is a moving feast and you can define it however you want to shirk the responsibility of doing the job.

Most of us teacher in RL just want to get back into school to attempt to repair some of the damage and without the ridiculous demands for masks on kids that are pointless and counter productive, and masks on teachers that make the kids think this is acceptable -it isn't.

@feelingfragile feel free to tell us, especially how to circumvent the rule that Primary children aren’t allowed to be left on their own?

Meanwhile at this very moment on the MN we have threads with suicidal children because of the lockdown.

Can we just pause and consider what this lockdown is actually doing to our children????

As teachers do you even care what is happening to the children at home?

@lifeafter50

safely This is a weasel word that is a moving feast and you can define it however you want to shirk the responsibility of doing the job.

Most of us teacher in RL just want to get back into school to attempt to repair some of the damage and without the ridiculous demands for masks on kids that are pointless and counter productive, and masks on teachers that make the kids think this is acceptable -it isn't.

Who has suggested shirking the responsibilities of the job?

Please could you point me to your evidence that masks are counter productive and pointless?

I agree with the OP.

School is not a babysitting service.

Aside from lone parents, everyone makes the choice to have a lifestyle that needs two salaries whilst the children are young enough to need supervision. Therefore, if you make that choice then you have a plan B and C in place for situations that could arise.

I get that this is unprecedented, but that is life I am afraid.

Threads like these are damaging, we have all got to work through this together for the sake of our children.

I do not want to be standing in the playground thinking that my children's teachers don't want to be there. That I am leaving my child in the care of someone who begrudges the situation.

I do not know whose fault any of this is, but I know one thing, it is not the children's fault.

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@feelingfragile feel free to tell us, especially how to circumvent the rule that Primary children aren’t allowed to be left on their own?[/quote]
As I said, rethink traditional practice. Recruit volunteers, teachers to move between rooms, use of digital technology, use student teachers.

You know, think creatively, like other professions have had to do over the last 6 months.

FinnyStory

Have you read the DfE reopening guidance OP? It's very clear that schools must have a plan to educate if they are forced to close again and to educate those children who can't attend because of isolation

Yet the government has said that schools will stay open and not close.

Do you see the problem?

The teachers will be teaching those that are in school.

Luckily because schools give a fuck, we have plans in place.
But I have no doubt that it will be good enough for some people.

@Friendsoftheearth

Meanwhile at this very moment on the MN we have threads with suicidal children because of the lockdown.

Can we just pause and consider what this lockdown is actually doing to our children????

As teachers do you even care what is happening to the children at home?

Not a single teacher has suggested schools not reopening in September (please redirect me if that's not the case - I'd certainly argue against that). Every single teacher I know is desperate to be back in the classroom and with the kids.

Venicleover So if you have children you took a pandemic into account when you decided to start a family?

You are a far better parent than I am. I didn’t.

If online learning is so good what’s the point of teachers? Seriously the DofE could just standardise all year groups and send out generic paper work. They could have online chat functions that you could ask quick questions.Online videos on subjects, I think that would be awesome.

Think how much money LA would save not having to pay for school upkeep or teachers. We could turn the empty schools in to cheaper accommodation for people.

Sounds a good idea to me!

Of course teachers can support two classes at the same time, just needs a rethink of typical practice.

What's your ideas?

So far I've got one big class in the hall for 60 but that still needs 2 members of staff.

Every teacher I know wants to be back in school ! But we would also like

1. some additional funding to pay for cleaning and cleaning supplies so that we can keep the school clean and reduce the possibility of an outbreak.
2. staff to be given at least the option of wearing a mask or visor if it makes them feel safer
3. to be able to insist on seeing a negative test result before someone returns to school following symptoms.

If the government can afford half price Nando's chicken for everyone, you wouldn't think the above was too much to ask for, would you?

One thing is for sure the reputation and creditability of the teaching profession lies in absolute tatters after this.

What a disgrace.

People also need a plan b for children being off school sick, as schools are requiring children to stay at home if they have any symptoms, not just Covid ones. There will be no more going to school with a bit of a cold.

@Friendsoftheearth
As teachers do you even care what is happening to the children at home?

Don't be so melodramatic. Of course teachers care, what a stupid thing to say. Teachers want children to go back to school they are concerned about safety, theirs and that of the children.

Don't you want children as safe as possible in schools?