The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

@KingFredsTache you are so right. Completely agree with all your posts, but sadly alot of posters on this thread are deluded and brainwashed!

Are blowjobs empowering? Blowjobs are one of the worst sexual acts in porn for degrading women. Does any woman really want some guys dick up against her tonsils? Really and truly?

Do women only get to rap about enjoying giving blowjobs if they've passed a lie detector test and undertaken 12 weeks of psychoanalysis to check they really and truly mean what they're saying?

Unless you're worried these women have been trafficked or are performing under duress, I'm not sure why you need to verify whether their words soeak to the very core of their being. Maybe they love blowjobs, maybe they think their fans do, maybe they're trying to make a point, maybe they're saying it to appeal to men, maybe it's got something to do with the money.

Why does it matter whether they believe what they're saying? Shedloads of art is based on fiction - who cares if they're playing characters and don't talk/dress/act like that at home?

It seems to me that women, and especially BAME women, are held to an unreasonably high standard when it comes to being the Defenders of Feminism, despite their never having signed up for that role.

[quote gingganggooleywotsit]@KingFredsTache you are so right. Completely agree with all your posts, but sadly alot of posters on this thread are deluded and brainwashed![/quote]
Brainwashed? How very condescending.

If a woman doesn't present their feminism in a way acceptable to you, it's not feminism?

30 years ago, you would have been telling us to cover up or we're "asking for it".

@LonginesPrime worded perfectly. Except unfortunately a lie detector test would not reveal how brainwashed women apparently are.

BAME women believing they have free thought? Not on the watch of some of the women here.

I think a lot of young women are fed up of being told what to do by other women as much they are fed up of being told what to do by men.

Absolutely agree with everything in your post.

The tone is particularly patronising, too.

At least when a man tells me I can't do something it's because he believes I'm physically weaker or lesser. Whatever. Women think I'm "deluded and brainwashed" thus incapable of thinking for myself. I know what one insults me more.

Completely agree with all your posts, but sadly alot of posters on this thread are deluded and brainwashed!

Oh stop
Women think for themselves! Means they're deluded or brainwashed!
Fuck. That. Shit.

. Women think I'm "deluded and brainwashed" thus incapable of thinking for myself. I know what one insults me more.

Same!

*[Intro: Cardi B, Al “T” McLaran & Megan Thee Stallion]
Whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house (Hol' up)
I said certified freak, seven days a week
Wet-ass pussy, make that pullout game weak, woo (Ah)

[Chorus: Cardi B]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, you fuckin' with some wet-ass pussy
Bring a bucket and a mop for this wet-ass pussy
Give me everything you got for this wet-ass pussy

[Verse 1: Cardi B & Megan Thee Stallion]
Beat it up, nigga, catch a charge
Extra large and extra hard
Put this pussy right in your face
Swipe your nose like a credit card
Hop on top, I wanna ride
I do a kegel while it's inside
Spit in my mouth, look in my eyes
This pussy is wet, come take a dive
Tie me up like I'm surprised
Let's roleplay, I'll wear a disguise
I want you to park that big Mack truck right in this little garage
Make it cream, make me scream
Out in public, make a scene
I don't cook, I don't clean
But let me tell you how I got this ring (Ayy, ayy)
[Verse 2: Megan Thee Stallion]
Gobble me, swallow me, drip down the side of me (Yeah)
Quick, jump out 'fore you let it get inside of me (Yeah)
I tell him where to put it, never tell him where I'm 'bout to be (Huh)
I'll run down on him 'fore I have a nigga runnin' me (Pow, pow, pow)
Talk your shit, bite your lip (Yeah)
Ask for a car while you ride that dick (While you ride that dick)
You really ain't never gotta fuck him for a thang (Yeah)
He already made his mind up 'fore he came (Ayy, ah)
Now get your boots and your coat for this wet-ass pussy (Ah, ah, ah)
He bought a phone just for pictures of this wet-ass pussy (Click, click, click)
Pay my tuition just to kiss me on this wet-ass pussy (Mwah, mwah, mwah)
Now make it rain if you wanna see some wet-ass pussy (Yeah, yeah)

[Verse 3: Cardi B & Megan Thee Stallion]
Look, I need a hard hitter, need a deep stroker
Need a Henny drinker, need a weed smoker
Not a garter snake, I need a king cobra
With a hook in it, hope it lean over
He got some money, then that's where I'm headed
Pussy A1 just like his credit
He got a beard, well, I'm tryna wet it
I let him taste it, now he diabetic
I don't wanna spit, I wanna gulp
I wanna gag, I wanna choke
I want you to touch that lil' dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat
My head game is fire, punani Dasani
It's goin' in dry and it's comin' out soggy
I ride on that thing like the cops is behind me (Yeah, ah)
I spit on his mic and now he tryna sign me, woo
[Verse 4: Megan Thee Stallion]
Your honor, I'm a freak bitch, handcuffs, leashes
Switch my wig, make him feel like he cheatin'
Put him on his knees, give him somethin' to believe in
Never lost a fight, but I'm lookin' for a beatin' (Ah)
In the food chain, I'm the one that eat ya
If he ate my ass, he's a bottom-feeder
Big D stand for big demeanor
I could make ya bust before I ever meet ya
If it don't hang, then he can't bang
You can't hurt my feelings, but I like pain
If he fuck me and ask "Whose is it?"
When I ride the dick, I'ma spell my name, ah

[Chorus: Cardi B]
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, you fuckin' with some wet-ass pussy
Bring a bucket and a mop for this wet-ass pussy
Give me everything you got for this wet-ass pussy
Now from the top, make it drop, that's some wet-ass pussy
Now get a bucket and a mop, that's some wet-ass pussy
I'm talkin' wap, wap, wap, that's some wet-ass pussy
Macaroni in a pot, that's some wet-ass pussy, huh

[Outro: Al “T” McLaran]
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house
There's some whores in this house*

I've yet to centre on the part that could be termed empowering but I shall persevere.

Sure women can enjoy gagging on someone's dick if they want, though it doesn't appeal to me, but where's the, "strain your tongue till the frenulum tears boys" lyrics?

But of course prostitutes get to call all the shots, that's why it's so empowering?

I've yet to centre on the part that could be termed empowering but I shall persevere.

Have you watched the video?

I think it's much easier to appreciate the full context (and the fact the "intro" and "outro" is a sample of another misogynistic track which could be viewed as the source material they are commenting on) in the video, and I don't think the tongue-in-cheek nature is conveyed by the lyrics alone.

I must admit some of the US right-wing commentaries objecting to this song are very, very worrying. More so in fact than the lyrics. Just the ignorance about women's biology for a start ...

I really don't want to get lumped in with that lot.

But no, I don't personally find the lyrics remotely empowering.

I think a lot of women fell threatened by women so sexually liberated. It’s too much for some women to believe their partner/husband who they make love with gets off on watching what the see as a women who isn’t as worthy as they are

We know that the vast majority of men love this they pretend they don’t to please their wives and girlfriends but for most it’s a lie. Of course all the partners of Mumsnetters are not into porn not don’t have fantasies about sex with sexually liberated women who will act out all their dirty fantasies

Yet porn is full of this why because that what the audience wants. Many women love sex that’s rough, with more than one person, being watched, acting the porn star they find it’s sexually liberating and enjoy it. It’s nothing new

I'm not a particularly passionate advocate of the song or the artists either.

I think the song is funny, thought-provoking, aesthetically-pleasing and it's refreshing that women are centred. And it got people talking about important issues, so it's done its job very successfully as a piece of art, in my opinion.

That said, I strongly object to people calling out women for womaning wrong.

I don't find the song remotely enpowering. Nor do I find women who are sexually liberated remotely threatening. I just sexual liberation as as something different to itsalwayssunny. To me it is being free to express my sexuality, in the way I want , when I want , with whom I want it, (or alone) needing neither to hide it nor make a statement about it, just live it.

Of course many men love the song. What on earth has that got to do with a woman's empowerment? My power or self worth has fuck all to do with if a man finds me attractive. I'm not interested in competing against other women in being 'sexually liberated' enough to please men. Do you think women who object to porn do so because they are jealous? Jeez, I have seriously zero desire to be seen as a cum-bucket by a bunch of wankers.

sorry * I just SEE...

I think it's much easier to appreciate the full context (and the fact the "intro" and "outro" is a sample of another misogynistic track which could be viewed as the source material they are commenting on) in the video, and I don't think the tongue-in-cheek nature is conveyed by the lyrics alone

That's really interesting, @LonginesPrime. I suppose I was hoping there's some deep irony in there somewhere, but I'm just not seeing it yet.

So the song is a critique?

@CaptainCorellisPangolin

Your supercilious tone about "empowerment" is exactly why I wrote the post two pages about how there is no intersectionality on this forum, and (majority) white middle class women from the UK feel themselves empowered to tell black women from the US what is acceptable to rap about.

Do you know the historical narrative around sexual power dynamics in black communities in the US? Have you listened to the number of hip hop records I have and observed how women are portrayed, then been able to enjoy this moment where two confident women take centre stage and tell the brothers how it's going to go down?

Do you have ANY context about this record at all, aside from the fact that it doesn't appeal to you personally?

I think a lot of women will deny how much men like porn as they don’t like the idea their partner likes porn and gets off on women they openly sneer at because they trade on their sexuality. That doesn’t make them lesser women than a professional women who is a CEO of an international bank.

Who decides what the bar is for a women to feel empowered

Porn isn’t new throughout history their has always been forms of erotica you don’t have to like it

It's just staggering to me that this record is being judged by a ton of pearl clutching Boden shoppers for whom the last record they physically bought in the shop was 25 by Adele or that Rag and Bone man album, and whose car CD holder is filled with White Ladder by David Gray, or No Angel by Dido, or Jagged Little Pill..

I'm obviously joking here but come on.... if you don't have the reference points or faculty to judge this in context for what it is, then of course this thread becomes a litany of outrage about what teenagers might pick up (like a record is the only outlet of information and porn sites, the Internet, what's app groups are all bastions of purity) or how denigrating this all is.

I agree that true empowerment is being able to say what you want about what you want. And IF what these women discribed in the song is what they want, then I'm glad they are able and confident to express that.

But I can't help feel a little
suspicious about the fact that the actions that women are suddenly so into and so vocal about, are also male fantasies and very similar to porn created by men for men.

I don't doubt that some women enjoy being choked and beaten. But, I also know as a woman, that being desired by men and being the women that fulfills male fantasy is a turn on. We're raised to want to please men and be desired by men. It's ingrained from such a young age its only natural to feel that way.

So is it not more a case of being turned on by the fact you turn men on. But feeling empowered because you turned men on by doing things that men have said they like - is sorta not empowering. It's more doing what your told and feeling greatful when you're told your a good girl.

I think sex is a bit of a mine field when it comes to feminism and empowerment. Because sex for women is a submissive act. Its also so heavily dominated by male wants that its hard for women to actually know whether they are turned on
because its their fantasy, or because they just like being the object of desire and like pleasing men. Which there is nothing wrong with. Like many women I have enjoyed having a sexual power over men by being the object of their desire - and it can feel very empowering. But until women have more of an equal influence on the sex industry and sexuality - we can't really say that we like things because it's our fantasy or because we've been led by a male dominated narrative of what is sexy.

One further thing I will add is, are lesbians shouting about how they love to be chocked, love to be spit on, love to be dressed in uncomfortable fetish gear and beaten. I don't know, I'm not a lesbian. But it would be interesting to hear if when men are removed from the equation, whether womens sexuality shifts away from this apparently full consetual violence and degradation - or whether it is somthing niche that only a minority like.

That should read *critical faculty.

I'm not insulting people's intelligence on here.

Far from it. There's actually too much intelligence around this debate.

It's like judging a Michael Bay film using the principles of ahimsa as popularised by Mahatma Gandhi. The two things can co exist without each other.

So the song is a critique?

The whole song (imo) is about how they are getting what they want.

Add that to the video where they're portraying sexually confident "goddesses" and look at it side by side with any one of the countless songs / videos where men are portraying themselves as confident "sexual gods".

What doesn't seem to sit well with people is that what these women want, and the kind of sexuality they are portraying, doesn't gel with what they have decided they wanted themselves.

@tyrinn

So the song is a critique?

The whole song (imo) is about how they are getting what they want.

Add that to the video where they're portraying sexually confident "goddesses" and look at it side by side with any one of the countless songs / videos where men are portraying themselves as confident "sexual gods".

What doesn't seem to sit well with people is that what these women want, and the kind of sexuality they are portraying, doesn't gel with what they have decided they wanted themselves.

Amen amen

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

Your words:
"We know that the vast majority of men love this they pretend they don’t to please their wives and girlfriends but for most it’s a lie. Of course all the partners of Mumsnetters are not into porn not don’t have fantasies about sex with sexually liberated women who will act out all their dirty fantasies"
"I think a lot of women will deny how much men like porn as they don’t like the idea their partner likes porn and gets off on women they openly sneer at because they trade on their sexuality."

You claim to be arguing on behalf of sexually liberated women, but you keep talking about how much MEN like porn.

I prefer my sexual liberation to be about MY sexuality. Couldn't give a flying fig about what men like or want, unless it's a partner I'm having sex with and he is showing he also cares about what I want.

Ha! I'd be interested to know who wrote the lyrics.... seems to me like the sort of thing 2 blokes would egg each other on to write as part of having a joke at her expense "go on, make her say that! Go on, tell her it's empowering, women love that shit!"

No doubt girls will writhe away to it in clubs and men get entertained and boners, all while women feel "empowered".

I'm just too old for this shit!