The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

But I can't help feel a little suspicious about the fact that the actions that women are suddenly so into and so vocal about, are also male fantasies and very similar to porn created by men for men.

But it's this repetitive "male fantasy" that doesn't hold truth in reality. Pages back I linked a post that showed a study where 63% of women admitted to having fantasies about forceful or violent sex. Another link was to a study on PornHub that showed violent porn was actually more consumed by women than it was men.

So the whole "created by men for men" just doesn't ring all that true. Created by men, possibly. But do people really believe these sites didn't analyse and evolve based on what the audience was actually searching for? I went to college as the only female in a class of 20 male teens and young men. They weren't watching women getting rough blowjobs or being degraded sexually, they were watching what I'd call rather tame lesbian fluff.

I don't doubt that some women enjoy being choked and beaten. But, I also know as a woman, that being desired by men and being the women that fulfills male fantasy is a turn on. We're raised to want to please men and be desired by men. It's ingrained from such a young age its only natural to feel that way.

I absolutely agree with basically everything you say but I just want to point out that the more we progress as a society, maybe the more the last two sentences fail to ring true?

I was raised by a single mum, independent, "high-powered job fuck the patriarchy" feminist. I don't doubt that I'll have had some of that "please men" indoctrination just by being alive in society BUT don't you think that maybe it's a case of women feeling much more equal in everyday life, which then leads to wanting to change their role around in the bedroom?

I'm in a lot of book groups on facebook and what sells is still the alpha male (exactly the same as it did in the 70s bodice rippers days). The memes that are liked / shared the most are always about men taking control.

seems to me like the sort of thing 2 blokes would egg each other on to write as part of having a joke at her expense "go on, make her say that! Go on, tell her it's empowering, women love that shit!"

Is this another case of "can't possibly be a woman saying things like that, must be a man!" shit that we see so often on MN? They can't be thinking womanly enough, shame on them.
Must have some man pulling her strings like a puppet

So who actually wrote the song?

I've yet to centre on the part that could be termed empowering but I shall persevere

I wouldn't bother. It's a load of shit. Like kids saying rude words for attention. Fortunately 81% of people think OP is not unreasonable.

@JamieLeeCurtains

So who actually wrote the song?

The beat is Ayo and Keyz, but Cardi and Megan wrote their rhymes.

Sorry if the last part shocks anyone with Geppetto-style delusions that the two women are being puppeted by some rap mogul.

It's a song released to make money, sure they might like that sort of sex, cool. It's not really groundbreaking, or for anyone that feels censored now and gets censored in expressing their sexual desires it's not going to change much.

Aren’t they big and clever singing about sex? Trash.

The sad thing is, young girls will see and hear this and think this is normal.

Trash

Yeah, women singing about or wanting sex - trash! Just slags, amirite?
Jeez.

Salt n Peppa we’re doing this decades ago. Yawn.

IT’S trash. Not commenting on the ‘artist’.

Yeah, people have been singing about sex for decades, what's your point?
Are we counting all the sexually explicit songs men have made or just the ones women are?
Salt and Pepa did that in the 80s/90s! Already done, stop now, no more women need to sing about sex.
Something like that?

How can pornhub know what sex the person watching the porn is? Based on a user profile that may be false?

Women have always fantasised about being dominated by men. So I can see that women may like watching that type of exteme porn, as it is just an evolution of the "being ravished" trope.

But my question is, do women want this because it's what our sexuality is based around - or because men have told us for 1000s of years its what we want and created a whole society around that to make us feel its what we want. So much so we've now got to a place where we're asking to be strangled and beaten.

It's also very different fantasising about somthing and actually having it done to you. Rape fantasy is really common. But it doesn't mean we actually want to be raped.

Is a very complex issue and, where I feel that a woman should be able to express a desire for any sex she wants - I don't think it should be celebrated as female empowerment. And it's hard to feel confident that the words in that song and the content in the video have not been influenced by male song writers, producers and record executives.

The male dominated music industry seems really keen to promote this particular brand of female empowerment - but it's alot harder especially in tradiotnally black music genres to find female artists that are able to express any other sort of empowerment - or in fact any subject other than sex.

To be honest as a BAME (mixed raced -black/white) middle aged woman I’m getting pretty pissed off with the overly woke types on here accusing others of being racist because they are against BAME female empowerment with this song.

Quit it, this song is 100% NOT empowering for black women. Not one black woman in my family would think this song helps them in any way. Notice how every article praising this song is written by a millennial non-black woman? Black women have always had two stereotypes. 1. Angry. 2. Over-sexed whores who are sexualised and fetishised from childhood, never innocent. Slave masters used to justify raping black slave women by claiming they were ‘un-rapeable’ because they always wanted sex anyway. This song reinforces number 2.

What black women want is a diversity of images like Michelle Obama, Kamala Harris, the black female astronaut (can’t recall her name). Of course these two rappers can rap about their pussies all they want but let’s not pretend that as black female rappers that they have the option to sing about how they love needlework, even with the same heavy baseline tune and expect to still get any backing from their record company. If they did that on their next record they’d be dropped. They will make some money but they don’t have real power over their careers.

L’il Kim and Foxy Brown were rapping about their pussies in the 90’s. Millie Jackson was singing about her pussy in the 70s. These two aren’t breaking any ground for BAME women. They are helping to box black women in supported by liberal racists (some conscious, some not) who don’t want them competing for positions in the boardroom. Let them entertain everybody with their shucking and jiving and focus on being one dimensional and rapping about their pussies instead.

I’m not interested in listening to explicit songs or rap. I’m pro good sex and feminist I just don’t think this lyrics like that should be acceptable from any gender. As a parent of daughters and a teacher I fear for young girls.

but it's alot harder especially in tradiotnally black music genres to find female artists that are able to express any other sort of empowerment - or in fact any subject other than sex.

You really going to put this completely baseless nonsense up there unchallenged, said confidently to an audience hopefully waiting for such tropes so we can rehash the "enslaved black female in music industry" crap again?

So Jhene Aiko doesn't exist, Erykah Badu doesn't exist, Lauryn Hill never existed, Bahamadia never was about, Rah Digga never was treated as an equal in the Flipmode Squad, Eve in Ruff Ryders, Remy Ma in Terror Squad..

... and then not to mention Minnie Riperton, Nina Simone, Aretha..

Do I need to go on?

@Alabamawhirly1 don't you think it's a little patronising to ignore the two women that wrote and sang the song, when they've shouted from the rooftop that those are THEIR WORDS and their thoughts, for you to suggest they're too stupid to realise they're being influenced by men and for men?

Why can't all women L I S T E N to other women. You don't like it? Absolutely don't indulge in it. But if another woman tells you she likes it, stop condescendingly telling her it's because she's too thick to realise she's being manipulated by the man.

we all like different things. that's what makes the world turn.

Eve in Ruff Ryders

Not sure on the others, but being a huge Eve fan I can't let this one slide. She always wanted to be a singer, but her management suggested she would switch to rap, further compounded by a chance meeting whilst at work. Not to say she did not thrive, but she didn't set out to be a rapper and follow the musical path she did. She wasn't held captive, but I'd have loved to hear her singing too.

Actually here's a litmus test -

Missy Elliot. Widely acknowledged amongst her male rap peers as one of the all time greats. Independent, writes her own rhymes, works with her own people (Timbaland being a notable collaborator).

Yet go listen to the lyrics of "Work It", a song I'm sure many on here have enjoyed while out dancing or whatever. She's pretty clear what she wants to happen, and where she'd like her, well, just have a listen.

Is this ok because Missy has ostensible skill and impeccable beat selection? Because she was an overweight female at the time so perceived as "non threatening" (that's not my view at all, I'm jusy theorising). Because she didn't dress as Cardi and Megan do in their promos?

I think my post uncovers what I think is the real issue here. Slut shaming. People wearing things not approved of, saying things not approved of, according to the sexual mores of a demographic and geography that have nothing to do with this music and probably wouldn't have heard it at all if it wasn't for the hysterical press and Facebook posts.

youkiddingme

I have posted that I think many women do not like the idea of the men they are in a relationship with get off with the thought of sex that with women who are so sexually liberated and what they see as beneath them and vulgar or what’s the term you used a cum bucket

I mentioned that porn is driven by the audience I didn’t say that audience is male only because it isn’t. Porn/erotica isn’t for everyone but it’s certainly nothing new

Yes you decide what makes you sexually liberated yet have made the decision that this isn’t empowering for women right ok

I found it empowering that i could twist men around my little finger to get what I wanted with a promise of sex or more sex and I used it. Of course that might make me some cum bucket or a women to sneer at to the likes of yourselves but I enjoyed it and certainly made me feel sexually empowered and liberated

I guess you know better on how I felt though 😬

How can pornhub know what sex the person watching the porn is? Based on a user profile that may be false?

No, profiles / memberships aren't necessary to determine sex (gender??) for analysis. It's done by Google Analytics. It's not 100% accurate but it's pretty close.

@Tellmetruth4 sorry but as a mixed race woman I disagree.

Saying 'that's not what black women want', when the song is written and sung by two black women, is totally bizarre.

Sure, you're a POC and you don't want it. They are POC and they do want it. Both are okay. What's not okay is you telling them they are not black enough because of their choices. That they are less than Kamala Harris or Michelle Obama.

Because I'll let you into a little secret. I'm mixed race. I'm a corporate lawyer. And I like all sorts of adventurous sex. People are multi-faceted. Maybe Michelle likes whips and chains. That doesn't make her any less of a strong, powerful woman.

It's patronising to assume women who like things you don't like are having their strings pulled by male puppeteers.

I understand your point. We're all fighting hard for women, in particular BAME women, to be seen as more than sex objects. More than just 'ghetto'. To be taken seriously. I get it, and in my career I have seen my fair share of it. But the way to do that is not to tell women to stifle their sexuality. It's to make them seen as the well rounded women they are.

Smart, strong, career driven and sexually liberated. Not mutually exclusive.

@Diceroll

Eve in Ruff Ryders

Not sure on the others, but being a huge Eve fan I can't let this one slide. She always wanted to be a singer, but her management suggested she would switch to rap, further compounded by a chance meeting whilst at work. Not to say she did not thrive, but she didn't set out to be a rapper and follow the musical path she did. She wasn't held captive, but I'd have loved to hear her singing too.

Yeah that's fair on Eve's eventual musical path, I know this background and respect to you for raising it. Many artists have been heavily A&R'd over time.

but my point is still that she wasn't overly sexualised, heavily disrespected as a woman, or made to rap about things she didn't want to.

DMX hugely respected Eve. Swizz Beats treated her as he would any other rapper on his stable. She was an equal and well regarded member of RR and of the late 90s rap scene.

Come on, this is Mumsnet, where women are cold and sexless, wear sensible Boden, sport a highlighted bob and sincerely believe that the greatest sin a man can commit is to express any hint of wanting sex.

I like this song. It's nothing new, vulgarity and explicit sexual content have been around since time immemorial, but it's catchy and the beat is good. It's all I ask for really.

Women,men, black or white can be into whatever they want. I don’t like hearing it explicitly in music/rap especially when there is a young following.