The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

@tyrinn

The women who wrote it aren't that clever*

What makes you assume that?

Did you see a black woman showing skin and assume she must be unintelligent? Or is it just any woman, regardless of colour, who shows skin that you deem as unintelligent?

She's defended her position many times.

www.billboard.com/amp/articles/columns/hip-hop/8494514/cardi-b-stephanie-hamill-twerk-video-city-girls

Seems to me like she has the power to do what she wants to do.

It's not an assumption, it's an observation. And a reasonable one at that.

If they were more intelligent, they would have paused and pondered the rightness of contributing to the pornification of an entire generation of young women and girls.

If they were more intelligent, they would have written better lyrics, too.

Fancy having all that power, and using it in this way.

The wordplay is extremely clever.

@cbt944

If they were more intelligent, they would have written better lyrics, too.

If you were more intelligent you would see that's a subjective viewpoint. What constitutes "better?" Moral content?

As subsequent and previous posters have cited, the wordplay and inventiveness in this song is pretty good.

If you were more intelligent you would see that's a subjective viewpoint. What constitutes "better?" Moral content?

Oh, please. Better, as in not so lousy.

On the other hand you have people who think these women are deliberate zeitgeist creators who want to start a brand new wave of feminist commentary.

I disagree. Most people who fall into that opposing camp have taken issue with women trying to tell these particular women (and anyone who disagrees with their ideals, basically) that they are doing it wrong / brainwashed.

I genuinely couldn't give a crap about feminist commentary. I don't understand it. Haven't understood it for a while and this thread has basically cemented my views.

I'll continue to argue and hold the viewpoint that women can women any way they want to, though. Wether that's choosing to be a bricklayer, choosing to be a doctor, or choosing to be a footballers wife. Wether that's enjoying rough violent sex or missionary with their eyes closed. Is that feminism or anti-feminist? Fucked if I know.

Male empowerment: women naked.
Female empowerment: women naked.

Plus ça change plus c’est la même chose

The women aren’t naked.

Given the backlash some rappers have received for having much younger, naked women in their videos, I can see why they didn’t go the ‘we can do it too’ route. Plus the song is about the female body.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

Male empowerment: women naked. Female empowerment: women naked.

Plus ça change plus c’est la même chose

Exactly. Good old female objectification - it never dies!

It's a race to the bottom. Literally, in this case it would seem.

I have intelligent teenage dds and they view imagery such as that in this video as demeaning, sexist and pornified. They want to be regarded as far more than a pair of tits n ass. I am glad they espouse these views.

It's a sad day for feminism when women are advocating for videos with other women demeaning themselves and turning themselves into porn stereotypes. You think that's 'empowering'? more fool you.

There’s a difference between saying you want to be more than tits and arse and saying that you can’t show tits and arse and be respected.

I don’t think the song is empowering for me, but I admire the confidence and swagger of it and I do believe that the woman making the music see themselves as powerful and in charge of what they are doing.

I can’t believe that a man would make a video as funny and silly as that when making a ‘tits and ass’ video.

Calling these women unintelligent and implying that they are just tits and ass is reductive. Why should they be defined by one song? Or the way they dress in their videos?

So much music is about sex...i guess in it's primal sense it is about flirting and mating. I can't get worked up about it.
However Azalea Banks 212 is far superior and more catchy than this bland tripe...and i do like Cardi B. Bodak yellow and i like it were ace.

I’m not trying to be a feminist either by liking the video or song. It grates my goat so badly to see that ‘feminism’ to many basically means being as non sexual as possible and some kind of beige floating brain matter who has no tits or ass and god forbid finds themselves sexy or sexual and wants to express it. If women do express this, they are idiots who only care about men

By raising another generation of slut shaming women you are harming other women. Can’t people raise their daughters to think ok well that’s not for me but it seems like she’s loving it so each to their own?

Some women find their brains sexy, some women find their brain and their tits sexy. Doesn’t make one of the women better than the other woman

It's a race to the bottom. Literally, in this case it would seem.

😂

Like I said yesterday, the day that men are gyrating around in minimal clothing, singing about how much they enjoy getting their airways constricted by their female partner during sex, all in the name of 'male empowerment' is the day I will think that maybe we are on the road to equality.

Thus is all a bit like when 17 year old Billie Eilish sang about 'my bloody nose' and 'bruises on both my knees for you' (where Justin Bieber's equivlalent lines in that god awful version were about his expensive jewelery and tattoos) and it was was just all so 'empowering'

Missy Elliott did this 20 years ago (Work It). Her version of a 'sexy' song is a million times better than this. Also, she was wearing combats in the video.

They might think it's ironic and empowering but it's still women with their boobs out in porno type poses. I don't know how much empowerment young teenagers get from it. It doesn't look much different to things that are the opposite of empowering.

Jeez. How minging. Shouldn’t be allowed air play.

@AngeloMysterioso

I think it’s hilarious that anyone could seriously suggest that this song is a critique, or a commentary, or anything like that. It’s not that clever. The women who wrote it aren’t that clever.

The fact is, sex sells, so they’re rapping about sex, in the crudest, filthiest terms they can think of, with an accompanying crude, filthy video. It’s “empowering” in the same way Kim Kardashian and Emily Ratajkowski taking a topless selfie in a bathroom was supposedly “empowering”- it isn’t really, they’re just making money and getting attention by getting their tits and asses out for the lads because they don’t really have anything else to offer. It’s lowest common denominator dross.

@AngeloMysterioso "the women who wrote it aren't that clever"

1. are you always so patronising?
2. we're here talking about it, they're number 1 across the world making £££
3. how exactly are you qualified to assess their intelligence from the little, if anything, you know about them?

The fact you feel qualified to discuss female empowerment when you clearly fail to understand how multifaceted women truly are is laughable. You can have your tits and arse out, and still be a strong, independent woman.

As I said below, I say this as a corporate lawyer (first class degree, distinction at masters, city law firm) with an eclectic sex life. The fact you believe tits out = thick shows your absolute failure to understand the complexities of female sexuality.

Wasn’t there a bit that said ‘I don’t cook, I don’t clean’ So that’s the roles laid out. Cook, clean or fuck. Very old fashioned idea

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

Male empowerment: women naked. Female empowerment: women naked.

Plus ça change plus c’est la même chose

Male empowerment = choice Female empowerment = choice

Maybe for Cardi that choice is naked. Maybe for you that choice is a beige cardigan and missionary once a fortnight. Both are equally empowering, that's the bloody point. It's about choice.

I'm not sure it's real feminism to stand up against men dictating female choices, and then replace it with women dictating each other's choices.

@malificent7

So much music is about sex...i guess in it's primal sense it is about flirting and mating. I can't get worked up about it. However Azalea Banks 212 is far superior and more catchy than this bland tripe...and i do like Cardi B. Bodak yellow and i like it were ace.

What makes 212 superior?

Quantify it please with some musical analysis?

I know both records well and I still think it's going to come down to visual presentation and the perception of one set of women as "strippers".

@BGirlBouillabaisse

Missy Elliott did this 20 years ago (Work It). Her version of a 'sexy' song is a million times better than this. Also, she was wearing combats in the video.

I cited "Work it" earlier in this thread knowing it would get quoted at some point.

I knew Missy's outfits and "non-threatening" appearance would be the winning factor.

At the end of the day I wish some folk on this thread would stop feigning an argument about musicality when what it really comes down to is "they're strippers" and the whole thing is a reaction against open, confident, black female sexuality.

The whole song (imo) is about how they are getting what they want. Which is what I said pages ago... they are exchanging sex for stuff.

All the goddess shite is just fancy clothing to increase the exchange rate!

@ClutterbuckFarm

Seems to me that this is a song by twats and for twats.

About twats.

Gushy twats

Also wish people would stop pitting black female rappers against each other. Missy didn't do a "version" of anything. She made her song, in her wonderful and inimitable way.

Cardi and Megan have made their song. They are black women who are doing music as they see fit. Just because their overt sexuality causes some people to feel uncomfortable doesn't mean they don't have the right to express it.

Worse, they're not "doing it for men". I don't get off watching them or hearing their lyrics.

I was a Lil' Kim fan when I first heard her in Junior M.A.F.I.A and saw the footage of her performing at Biggie's showcase. There was no question whatsoever that forget outfits, forget the misogyny in rap and the so called hierarchy, this was the best rapper on that stage, period. When they did "Players anthem" she just took over the stage and the women in the crowd went nuts because they could see one of their own excelling and exceeding the guys on stage.