The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

A pussy is still a male porn term black or white. They are defining you

I think we've all simultaneously cracked it at around the same time. This new? Old? Alternative? Original? Batshit? brand of feminism is actually just about hating men and doing everything possible to be contrary.

So I can't call my pussy a pussy because men invented that. Do I always have to use vagina or vulva? If my husband calls it a pussy I'll call it a cock, that'll really stick two fingers up to those sexually deviant menz, won't it?

I actually dislike the word pussy but it's not because men invented it, it's because I'm Scottish and the accent makes me sound like a prick when I say it. But I don't believe Cardi B thinks she is being defined by using the word "Pussy" lol. I think you are insulting her intelligence.

In fact I think almost everything you've said on this thread has insulted women's intelligence.

A pussy is still a male porn term black or white. They are defining you

Oh Gawd, that is just such shit, I don't feel qualified to speak on the rest of your post as I'm white, mid 40s, and have no experience of colour.
All I do know is as a woman I know what I do and don't like.
Bollocks to say I don't know what I like and I only like what I do like is because men have told me I should like that.

In fact I think almost everything you've said on this thread has insulted women's intelligence

Yep!

I understand the points people are making about black women and stereo types, and that’s a discussion that I think is interesting and multifaceted - it is important to hear that some black women find this song and Cardi to be harming them rather than helping, and the reasons why.

But the discussion around how wrong it is or how it’s all ‘for men’ when women express their sexuality is actual bonkers batshit.

Empowered women don’t hate men, they just like themselves, speak for themselves and believe in themselves

This song is about sex work, isn’t it? That’s how I read the lyrics anyway. The idea being that every female sex worker is literally dripping with excitement, longing to be choked, have a dick rammed down her throat?

Walking into a meeting room and having everyone else stand up for you: empowering.

Having your views listened to and acted upon: empowering.

Knowing you are respected and no one touches you unless you want them to: empowering.

Having a stranger’s cheesy, sweaty dick rammed down your throat, for not very much money, with no workplace pension, healthcare or job security, just to pay your rent: just shit.

Men are taking the piss out of young women who are too naive to see they’re being had.

And macaroni: seriously? If your vagina is like macaroni, you need medical help. Urgently. Because you’ve got some sort of invasive worms.

Regressive, self defeating and anti feminist is what it is. How sad

How is rapping/expressing yourself and your own wants and desires sexually anti feminist and sad?
Surely the opposite of anti feminist is a woman doing what the fuck they want?

@Patriciawentworth

Barging in without reading the thread and telling a bunch of other women what should and shouldn't make them feel empowered: patronising.

Thank you for that. You've really changed my mind.

Just had a thought so thinking out loud, sorry.
Why is liking it up the arse sometimes seen as a bad thing?
When plenty of people do like that, male or female.
Doesn't mean it's automatically male wank fodder as was put on the thread earlier! Sometimes its womens too
What is acceptable for a woman to think about sexually?

Bless you @Patriciawentworth

This song is about sex work, isn’t it? That’s how I read the lyrics anyway. The idea being that every female sex worker is literally dripping with excitement, longing to be choked, have a dick rammed down her throat?

No it’s not about sex work it is about enjoying sex and the guy loving it so much he will give you anything. He is in awe of you, and you are telling him what you like

Walking into a meeting room and having everyone else stand up for you: empowering.

These women walk into plenty of meetings with people who work for them and will be the richest women in the room. I think they are doing ok on that front.

Having your views listened to and acted upon: empowering.

Yet you are not listening and think it’s disgusting therefore disempowering then

Knowing you are respected and no one touches you unless you want them to: empowering.

That is exactly what they are saying. The vag is mine, I may allow you to please it

Having a stranger’s cheesy, sweaty dick rammed down your throat, for not very much money, with no workplace pension, healthcare or job security, just to pay your rent: just shit.

She sat on his face first, this is consensual sex they are talking about.

Men are taking the piss out of young women who are too naive to see they’re being had.

I think the point is that women should forgo cheesy dicked men who have no interest in pleasing them and find themselves one who wants the WAP every which way you tell him

And macaroni: seriously? If your vagina is like macaroni, you need medical help. Urgently. Because you’ve got some sort of invasive worms

I think she means the noise. The squelch noise

@Quaagars completely agree about the anal sex point. Wasn't Grace Jones - Pull up to my bumper about loving anal?

There's a lot more positivity and celebrating anal activity in more recent music by female artists - "he gotta eat the booty like groceries" being one of my favourite lines putting it in a more positive and mainstream light.

I also don't think the song is actually about sex workers at all.

She's taking the old adage of women expecting to be "wined and dined" and amplifying it i.e if you want this pussy you better pay my college tuition because it's SO good. To me, it's an amusing take on the countless songs which glorify men to god status.

Also FYI:

And macaroni: seriously? If your vagina is like macaroni, you need medical help.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/laurenstrapagiel/iconic-good-pussy-vine-inspired-wap

A two second google would have explained that one.

This feels like the sexual equivalent of being mansplained to except done by women who obviously don't get it.

@Patriciawentworth

If you missed it Cardi has made sure that she’s put the message out to women not to ride or suck on any cheesy knobs, and to take care of their vaginas and keep them well hydrated 😂

Because us women are meant to only enjoy meaningful loving gentle sex

Rough, nasty words used, enjoying giving blow jobs, enjoying anal sex and being fucked is all so degrading and that can’t be enjoyable it’s nasty yuck yuck only a woman can like that if she has been told she likes that by a man

To (probably misquote) ryan gosling in crazy sexy love, “we (men) won the day women started paying to pole dance for excercise”.

And there was me, back in the day, thinking that feminism was about breaking that constraint and demonstrating I was more than my genitals

Like I said, womaning wrong.

Are most women still having sex with men to please them? Probably. So how will that change if women don’t talk about it? Are we asking men to stop having bad crap sex with women? Or are women asking women to take more control of their own sexual desires?

You can’t have it both ways
Complain that men dictate and control all female sex and then complain about women who want to take that control back

@Atalune
Internalised misogyny springs to mind

I'd be interested to know what bit. What should women get aroused by?
Should it never overlap with anything men want?
What is acceptable for a lady to find arousing?

When I read the lyrics on their own I wasn’t impressed. Then I listened to the song and absolutely loved it. I think it shows how if you separate the lyrics from the music and the delivery of the lines then you only get a really small part of the picture. Cardi B is really funny and irreverent, and the whole song seems very tongue in cheek and various other places to me.

The video is hilarious and I particularly loved the way the censored lyric ‘wet and gushy’ sounds even dirtier than the original.

Another thing I really appreciate about Cardi B is that motherhood has not softened her style at all.

I do not enjoy the type of sex that Cardi and Megan Thee Stallion are rapping about, but I don’t think they are brainwashed or handmaidens. Each to their own.

@Leflic "I do see black women as being as being massively disadvantaged by black stereotypes though As someone that absolutely loves Skunk Anansie primarily for the music but also for not being a stereotypical black musician
I despair if some overhyped rapped speaks for a generation"

It's all well and good you now saying you don't think women should be divided by race. But as a mixed race woman I can tell you that we're already separated by race.

Katy Perry can talk about being spread like a buffet, and there are no news articles, no MN debates. Miley can twerk and gyrate. Britney can sing about threesomes. Halsey can sing about head. Pink can sing about masturbation. Lady Gaga can sing about fucking doggy style.

And yet, here we are on a thread about two black women expressing their sexuality. People calling them trashy, classless twats.

Men do it, and it's fine. White women do it, and it's fine. Take from that what you will.

Easter, Quaagers,Longings, Its always, Tyrinn & Squrtile 👏🏼👏🏾👏🏻✊🏽
Props to you all for fighting the good fight! As Erica Jong wrote in fear of flying :
"Women are their own worst enemies. And guilt is the main weapon of self-torture . . . Show me a woman who doesn't feel guilty and I'll show you a man." Also "You don't have to beat a woman if you can make her feel guilty." 😉
P.S. loving reading about you embracing your 😸 power Menora
Some people in here be like ⬇️
m.youtube.com/watch?v=R9cw1ugeL-0

@Leflic

m.youtube.com/watch?v=nPglNjxVHiM This is Skunk, As a fuck off stupid men, women have feelings too anthem Is this not thousand times better?

Yeah it’s from a few years ago. Compare and contrast.

I actually love Skunk Anansie (if anyone incidentally wants to see what I consider the best live vocal ever by any artist male or female, watch her perform "Tracy's Flaw" live at Pavarotti and Friends) ...

But why on Earth post this, other than it's by another black woman?

Are black women to be held to a gold standard of what's acceptable in expression?

This would be like me saying to Machine Gun Kelly or god forbid, Eminem, "here look over there. That's Jeff Buckley. This is what you need to sound like to be credible and accepted musically".

Speaking of Eminem, I've actually seen him praised on this forum. I'll dig out links if anyone doesn't believe me.

The same person who has repeatedly rapped about extreme sadistic violence against his ex wife, women in general, has countless instances of homophobic lyrics.

But it's ok because he's incredibly inventive with language and perhaps one of the best rappers of all time! And he doesn't dress like a slut!

FFS

Oh it's reposted that Skunk Anansie link again in my post. Ha. Not a re endorsement from me.

I think it’s hilarious that anyone could seriously suggest that this song is a critique, or a commentary, or anything like that. It’s not that clever. The women who wrote it aren’t that clever.

The fact is, sex sells, so they’re rapping about sex, in the crudest, filthiest terms they can think of, with an accompanying crude, filthy video. It’s “empowering” in the same way Kim Kardashian and Emily Ratajkowski taking a topless selfie in a bathroom was supposedly “empowering”- it isn’t really, they’re just making money and getting attention by getting their tits and asses out for the lads because they don’t really have anything else to offer. It’s lowest common denominator dross.

The women who wrote it aren't that clever*

What makes you assume that?

Did you see a black woman showing skin and assume she must be unintelligent? Or is it just any woman, regardless of colour, who shows skin that you deem as unintelligent?

She's defended her position many times.

www.billboard.com/amp/articles/columns/hip-hop/8494514/cardi-b-stephanie-hamill-twerk-video-city-girls

Seems to me like she has the power to do what she wants to do.

@AngeloMysterioso

I think it’s hilarious that anyone could seriously suggest that this song is a critique, or a commentary, or anything like that.

I kind of agree but not for the same reasons you intended. I think this whole thread is full of two sets of people who are both equally misguided. In the one camp you have people thinking these women are disgusting, ignorant and playing into male fantasies. On the other hand you have people who think these women are deliberate zeitgeist creators who want to start a brand new wave of feminist commentary.

It’s not that clever. The women who wrote it aren’t that clever.

How on EARTH can you substantiate that? Because the only clever women are people who stand at a lectern in a trouser suit with the words TED illuminated behind them for example? Please.

It isn’t really [empowering], they’re just making money and getting attention by getting their tits and asses out for the lads because they don’t really have anything else to offer.

And why does this bother you so much that you've taken the time to write off these women's entire futures by claiming they have nothing else to offer the world?

Women don't need men to hold them back when you're capable of doing it all by yourselves with these kind of shaming comments.