DH has checked out of family life due to his mental health

[99WithTwoFlakes]

Name changed for this. I don’t know what to do anymore. I basically feel like I’m a single parent.

DH suffers with depression, panic disorder and generalised anxiety disorder, he’s been diagnosed within the last year but I think I have known for a while that there were some mental health issues. He’s never been massively hands on as a dad, and in the past has blamed it on his demanding job, which saw him out of the house for most of the day. But he would do things with the kids when he could, like take them to their hobbies, to the cinema, do some school and nursery runs, and during lockdown he did his fair share of home-schooling etc.

But in the past couple of months it’s got to the point where he cannot even be in the same room as them. (They are aged 1, 3, 6 and 8). He says the kids’ noise exacerbates his mental health conditions. I try to keep them as quiet as possible as I understand the noise is a particular trigger for him and as you can imagine at those ages the kids have their moments, though I would also say the older three do keep relatively quiet for long periods if told to. We also have a large enough house that he can escape to other parts of the house when it all gets too much for him. But what I’ve found is he will do that in the morning and then we won’t see him for the rest of the day. He usually comes back to spend time with me after they’re all asleep.

In the past week he’s also said he won’t be able to do the things he used to do anymore (examples above). He’s said that given his deteriorating mental health I’m expecting too much from him. For what it’s worth I rarely ask him to do anything anymore, everything he does is because he feels like it. And I do everything else including all the housework and trying to work a full time job (from home due to Covid). He won’t do any of the housework but will cook the occasional meal. I still can’t get my head around why he won’t do any housework as that has nothing to do with listening to the kids’ noise....let’s just say that when I bring things up I’m accused of being insensitive or uncaring and on a really bad day I’m blamed for giving him a panic attack.

I feel utterly miserable. Part of me feels like this isn’t the life I signed up for, and then I feel like a complete bitch for feeling that way, because it’s his mental health and although he’s getting regular treatment for it, it’s not working yet and he doesn’t seem to be able to cope with any aspect of family life. We never go anywhere as a family, we never play games with the kids together, he doesn’t even help with bedtimes and hasn’t read any of them a bedtime story in ages. He’s either sitting upstairs in the bedroom feeling depressed or anxious, or he’s just too tired from work. Are these just excuses? How will I ever know if he’s perfectly capable but very ill, or whether he’s just plain lazy?

On top of looking after four children I have to be constantly mindful of his conditions and do everything I can not to trigger a panic attack. Having a conversation with him about something I’m feeling upset about is impossible, there is almost no emotional support back, it’s all one way. It is exhausting and I’m forever walking on eggshells. Lord only knows how the kids feel - probably the same way.

Here’s the AIBU part.... I know this is a ridiculous question but at what point would you cut your losses and go your separate ways? AIBU for considering leaving someone who is clearly very ill? I am already basically a single mum and if I’m honest I feel so much relief when he’s not around. Obviously I love him and miss him at times but it’s one less person to look after and the kids are happier too. But I’m conscious I feel this way because of his deteriorating mental health. So I would feel like I’ve left him just because of a disability ...does that make me pure evil? I sometimes wonder how I’d feel if I had post-natal depression and he left me. But then I realise I’d still be expected to parent and look after my baby if I had PND....and he literally is saying he can’t do ANYTHING now, it’s like he’s got a get out of parenting free card which he now uses daily.

YABU - he’s ill and you need to be there for him even if he can’t contribute to family life anymore.
YANBU - you can’t be expected to do everything / he’s using his mental health as an excuse.

Any thoughts or comments would really help me right now...even if it’s to tell me I’m being an insensitive and uncaring bitch!! Thank you

If you talk to him about trial separation maybe phrase it as he take some time away from the family to focus on himself and getting better away from his triggers (children's noise etc). Assure him the family will visit him often and that he is loved, but the children need to be able to be kids in their own home - play, be noisy etc - and not be anxious about upsetting him or making him ill. As he feels better he could come home gradually (depending on his therapist's advice).

You love him, you care for him, but you can't be on eggshells all the time just for existing. Give him the space he needs to get better then see how the family functions.

OP, it sounded from your posts like he has stopped taking his previous meds and not started taking anything new - is that the case? If so I'm surprised that his doctor or therapist would approve this - I'd expect there to be at least a plan for weaning off the old drugs and starting with something different.

If I have that right and he isn't taking any medication at all, I think it's very reasonable to ask him to do so, and be clear that things can't continue as they are.

You mentioned he could go to stay with a relative and that sounds like it could be good for everyone - less anxiety for you and the children, not having to walk on eggshells all the time, and he gets some quiet and rest. And you could decide if this is a viable future for you or whether you find it too difficult being on your own.

This is going to sound harsh but some of the things you've said make me think that he is weaponising his depression and anxiety. I don't doubt that he finds them very debilitating, but he's able to hold down a full time job, and come and spend time with you AFTER the kids have gone to bed... plus you can't ask for help or "upset" him because it might trigger a panic attack - that raises an eyebrow. Whether he intends it to be or not, it's manipulative, and for that reason alone a break sounds like it could benefit everyone.

@TitianaTitsling what do you think would happen if you were incapacitated, accident or illness and your children needed cared for, would he still place his need for quiet and peace above their basic needs?

@99WithTwoFlakes I’m fairly certain he would step up for a short time

^^ this is important. Very important. Before I explain why, here is my story

My dh is struggling. I am daily getting called all sorts, and now he is being rude and abrasive to our children. He throws things, breaks things, and expects everything to be fine the following day, speaking as if nothing ever happened... He very frequently isn't up any time after 9pm, and so I struggle with an autistic dd who rarely sleeps unmedicated, and a nr adult in her second to last yr at school, along with a very playful puppy, and cleaning up after dinner.

Lucky if I get to bed before 1am most nights. God forbid we so much as talk when he is bed, however he will then crash around in the morning, at 6am and wake us all.

He tells me he is in a bad place, but does NOTHING to sort himself out. I mean NOTHING. He does housework, so thinks he is doing enough.

I said to my friend recently "I think if I was struggling he would step up"

she said

"but you ARE struggling"

That was a HUGE mirror she held up to me. And was pivotal in my rethinking our marriage.

Op, your kids DO need looking after, as do you. You shouldn't have to wait to be ill for him to do that. He is NOT stepping up. Not even for a short time. Believe me, 5 minutes of cuddles DOES NOT undo a life time of having to walk on eggshells around him.

It is worrying that he has you & his mum under the spell of not talking about his conditions for fear of causing a panic attack, yet can work a full time demanding job...do they have to walk on eggshells too? Is he is a nice quiet office where he can sit and do nothing all day and ignore his colleagues? Does his boss not talk about deadlines in order not to cause a panic attack?

I am also dubious that he can spend time with you once the kids are not around, yet cannot use this time to do some basic chores around the house...

He needs to see his GP and try an alternative medication. Perhaps a different SSRI.
Depression and and anxiety can cloud judgement and insight. He may not know/understand the impact on you.

I just started an SSRI after several years of suffering from anxiety. I only now gained insight.

I don't doubt that he finds them very debilitating, but he's able to hold down a full time job, and come and spend time with you AFTER the kids have gone to bed... plus you can't ask for help or "upset" him because it might trigger a panic attack - that raises an eyebrow. Whether he intends it to be or not, it's manipulative
This- there are choices being made here, and the children’s needs are not being prioritised. When pregnant I’m very unwell. It’s difficult to work. I do some family things - parenting, organising, cooking, even knowing they will tip me over the hedge and I won’t be working a full day the next day. Keeping my job is very important to me, but so are my family, as of course is my health and that of the baby I’m growing. You manage a juggle so that none of your priorities suffers too much.

He sounds selfish and lazy. Sorry but he chose to have 4 children. You can't just ignore them because you don't like noise. What about the children's needs? You need to get out of this situation. Also don't spend time with him in the evening if he's ignored you all day. He can spend time with you and the kids in a normal manner in the day time. He doesn't get to hide in his room all day and come out when the kids are in bed. Honestly it's pathetic. You need to get angry OP. If he's that vulnerable that a bit of noise sends him into a panic attack he should be sectioned or at least live on his own.

@99WithTwoFlakes
Two descriptions you have offered about his interactions with the children really stand out:

1 - It’s true they can’t always go upstairs and be loud and noisy whenever they want, I usually ask him if it’s alright for them to go and play upstairs and most of the time he says it is. Then if they get too loud he lets me or them know. They know not to go into the room where he usually is. I don’t know how that must make them feel. He views our kids as incredibly resilient; he also gives them a lot of love and affection whenever he is around them. So I just don’t know.

2 - I love the affection the kids get from him. In that one way he is incredibly kind caring and hands-on, he cuddles them and kisses them daily and really makes them smile. I know they would miss that if he was just never in the house. Part of me wonders if having that loving time with their dad even if it’s for 5 mins every day makes up for any shushing and i know it is better than having it just at weekends! I don’t even think he would be able to cope with visitation if we got divorced because he can’t handle the kids by himself. So then they would lose out massively. This is a big factor for me but of course I wouldn’t tell him that.

Every brief little moment of positive, affectionate attention he gives to the children is strictly on his terms. He does it when he feels like it. The rest of the time they know not to go into the room where he is.

This is incredibly bad for the children.

They are basically learning to try to get affection from someone who is not available to them when they may want him to be available, but is only available randomly - and essentially only when he wants to satisfy his own need for the affection of the children.

Along with the shushing, the lesson they are being taught by his five minutes of cuddles when it suits him is that they cannot really be themselves, their needs (to play, to approach dad and climb onto his knees, to initiate laughter and playfulness or to share sorrow or hurt with their own parent with a realistic hope of a response) will simply not be met.

The swing from 'Do Not Disturb' and shushing to very brief cuddles is too much to ask them to put up with. They are being trained to put their own needs second at all times with him.

He views our kids as incredibly resilient
This is him telling himself (and you) that he has no responsibility as a parent to give any thought to the children's needs.
He will only consider his own needs.

He is stressing and damaging the children. They will not come out of this unscathed.

I highly recommend you investigate play therapy and/or art therapy for the children so that they can express whatever sadness, loneliness, fear, stress, self-blame and bewilderment there is in their lives.

I also recommend if you divorce that the DCs' contact with him is under supervision.

You can leave your partner for whatever reason you want, without feeling guilty

Why not use the money he earns to pay for some of the things he can’t do? Why must you pick up the slack for free?

Can’t cope with noise? Headphones/earplugs
Can’t help with chores/childcare? Buy in help
Need to be alone? Scheduled time in a hotel or with family to give you and the child break from his oppressive illness
Meds not working/discontinued? Go to Dr and sort out alternatives
Won’t cook? Pay for delivery or ready meals

Have not read all the PP but as someone suggested - he may feel better on his own - without the children - as they are part of his problem. He may not see it now but discuss this with him and tell him you have had enough and HE is giving YOU severe depression. Someone has to be able to look after them or does he want them to go to relatives or into care?

If it is any help to you I was the child in your exact situation.

When I was little therapy and medication were not available to my father, or if they were he did not seek support, so the only silver lining I can see is that your your dh is at least getting help.

Any noise, but especially loud noises around the range of normal family life would trigger my father, but this would not the be only thing it could be a drive, a family gathering, anything in the end. It was unbearable! However he did do some housework, and he worked, so your dh is really not being honest with you when he says he can not do anything beyond his job, he is more than capable of housework.

I wish my mother had left him.

We spent our entire childhood walking on eggshells, being afraid, dealing with his meltdowns, anger when he could not stop his anxiety and my mother became trapped in his anxious world, and became anxious and clinically depressed herself in the end, she became a shell of her former self. She had two nervous breakdowns during my childhood, both were terrifying.

My father barely spoke to my brother and I, he did not communicate with us, play with us ever, or even talk to us - he only screamed at us when we had the audacity to cross his path or make a noise, we learnt very quickly to stay away from him as much as we could. It was a horrible, damaging and frightening, and I left home as soon as possibly could, way before it was safe to do so.
It meant that I never had any kind of relationship with my father at all. I have no memories whatsoever of him saying a kind or even nice comment to me, I don't ever remember seeing him as much as smile. We have no relationship to speak of now, and our childhood was utterly ruined. Even the so called happy days were ruined by his stress and anxiety, which he would take out on my mother. I was always waiting for him to have a breakdown, he was always on the verge of one, he could not cope. Nor could my mother in the end as much as she tried.

To say this had a profound impact on my own life is an understatement.

Your children will be absorbing all of the stress and anxiety, they will be frightened. You will run out of energy to deal with this at some point in the near future, because no one can continue to deal with such a demanding and exhausting situation.

I would not wish my mother's life on anyone.

Please consider your options, because at the moment you have the worst of all worlds, in a few years the children will be teenagers and how is he going to cope with that? And what will be left of you by then? You all deserve to feel safe and loved, to have happy days. I used to feel awful about this, but I used to pray in church on Sundays that he would leave (I actually only went to church to get away from him and the house)

It is a life sentence I am sorry to say. An absolute life sentence, and one that may break you, and your children. I am sorry you are going through this op

He’s not helping himself really, he’s actually making the situation worse by blaming you rather than apologising. I wouldn’t want this as my life so I’d see a solicitor.

You summarised it well in your last post- kids need to be kids. I grew up with a dad with mental health issues and it was hard.

I feel I can see my childhood and use the experience to change my parenting for the better. My sibling is a different more sensitive personality and was much more effected by our upbringing, now having anger issues, abusing alcohol.

Don't feel guilty for questioning what to do for the best. You are not responsible for his happiness. I would suggest he takes time out of the house (either stay with family or rent somewhere) to give you all breathing space and time for recovery. That's supportive of everyone's needs.

So he’ll probably use the “I’m too tired from my demanding and extremely well paid job to do the housework”....excuse

So, this is a choice then, nothing to do with poor mental health - at the moment he can say he is unwell and you get to carry all the load, when he’s not unwell he has a demanding job which also, oddly enough, excuses him from pulling his weight as a father. What about your extremely demanding job of raising his four children, do you not need time away from the kids too? Do you never struggle with their demands and their noise and their mess?

I may be biased, because I too was the child of a very depressed dad, regardless of how the kids seem to be coping, it leaves a scar. I wished daily that my mum would leave my dad.

Yeah his mental health doesn’t trump everyone else’s in the family.

He sounds pretty self-centred and selfish. All about HIM and his needs and his feelings and his problems. The rest of you have to tip-toe around for fear of doing the slightest thing that might trigger him.

It’s not a healthy way for you or your children to exist. You all have needs too and they need up be considered for once.

The best thing is for him to move out. 100% you will feel a huge weight lift off your shoulders. You will be doing you and your DC a massive favour. They can just be children, free and loud and happy.

My concern here is that living in such a stressful environment will lead your children to developing anxiety of their own on the future. Humans only have a finite amount of resilience and this life will deplete theirs as it is yours. As they get older they’ll realise it’s not “normal” they’ll feel they have to hide it from their friends and then carry the burden of that as well. What will you do when they start wanting to have friends round to play? I’ve worked in mental health, and the number of people who have mental health issues that had even mildly dysfunctional childhoods from parents with their own issues is phenomenal.
It’s also your mental health that matters, you can’t carry this stress indefinitely.
Mental health is not an excuse to disengage from responsibilities, but doing do is a perpetual downwards cycle, and I say this having suffered myself.
Could you go to the doctor with him and explain the situation or even have an appointment on your own with the doctor?

How many times has he had a real panic attack as a result of your questioning him or asking him to do something?

I sympathise with DH loathing ''kid's noise'' {I only had one for this reason!} ...but he should have known beforehand that kids are noisy and just had the one.
He is not at all reasonable not to do any housework.
There is something about the pitch and frequency of children being noisy and building noise that I am quite phobic about, too.

It is telling that he comes to you when they are all in bed.
Very sad for them.
Can he not take them out ''one on one'' time? or for long walks?

Noise is easier to bear outdoors in wide open spaces.

He is lucky to have a house huge enough where he can escape into blessed silence.

Sensitive hearing is a curse at times.

I was very shocked to see the responses here it is sad reading this. In sickness and health, you are a team.

What can you do to change your reactions to him? It takes two.

Looking after kids and a house will be necessary if you live alone or if he dies by suicide, so any input you give in those areas you would be responsible for anyway so this is not actually something you are doing to help him. If you split up and he got worse so gave up work would you be doing all the same housework/childcare and relying on benefits?

Maybe write a letter to him rather than fear a panic attack, which is likely as a stress response not just because you are voicing your upset, his self-esteem will no doubt take a hit. I would tell him this is your idea with a chance to work differently for 12 weeks first (long enough to form a habit, 6 months is too long IMO), then think about and talk about living apart maybe.

If you want him around more for family time you are not going to get that if you split up!

Are you still affectionate towards each other? Little acts of hugs and kisses could give an energy boost and reduce his and your blood pressure?

Have you thought about getting a cat? They are supposed to bring therapeutic benefits and largely look after themselves. It is not beyond an 8 year old to clear a litter tray.

Are you all eating as healthily as possible? Getting fish oils and magnesium into your diet can make a big difference at stressful times.

What do his family think of your situation? It may be worth getting them on board with your feelings so that they can see you want to help, support and make a go of things with their help of a spare room. If they are on side it would be less divisive in the long run if you can turn things around to keep your family together. Children will do far better in life with parents who are in love.

Are you teaching your kids to give up on someone when they are ill and need support?

I can't remember but if he is managing to work to provide very well still then I think you should cut him some massive slack. To be getting through work with those feelings you describe is exceptional. Does his managers know to help give him reasonable adjustments like they would if he had cancer. Surely it is in works best interest for him to be living with his family. Maybe they could provide a helpline, relaxation classes to help with the sensory overload or adjust his hours one afternoon a week to give more family-focused or recovery time for instance.

One day you may have to look your kids in the eye and say you tried your very best and you did everything you possibly could to keep the family together.

Good luck and best wishes for envisiging how to notice the changes that you think could make a difference. I really hope that you find some new vigour to help yourself and your family thrive again after what has obviously been a very challenging time.

@tickfollowedtock so the OP isn't trying hard enough, she should take on even more responsibility by getting a cat, she needs to be more loving.

Some might say keeping the family together at all costs is not as important as preserving the children's mental health and putting their needs first

I would look into how you would separate and how the finances would pan out etc. I am not saying leave him. But if you know it is a possibility and how it would pan out you can have a sensible discussion about it rather than it sounding like a veiled threat from you.
It could even be a temporary move.

And when you put it to him put it as if it is possibly the best prospect for him. If he's as bad as he seems weekly meet ups with the DCs sounds a good idea, both getting the best of each other. I don't think the present set up is good for the self esteem of the DCs and seems to be making his condition worse.

Meanwhile you can concentrate on the children without the added stress of caring for him on a daily basis.

In sickness and health, you are a team.

Not if one half of the "team" has checked out. Selfish and lazy people get depression, too.
If I was you, OP, I'd put the wellbeing of my children (and myself) first and separate.

You don't need to be a martyr, if you are not happy you can leave and start afresh. At least in your own home you can live, I mean make as much noise as you want when you want.
Your DH will need to find what works for him in this new norm.
It's not working as is.

Children will do far better in life with parents who are in love

How can they possibly be in love when they are walking on eggshells

Have you thought about getting a cat?

And have something else to feed and look after, I don't think that will help somehow!

If you want him around more for family time you are not going to get that if you split up!

It will help actually, as he will have to take responsibility for his own children, she will have more help not less. He is doing absolutely nothing at the moment, so whatever he does once they have split up will be more than what he is doing now!

Are you teaching your kids to give up on someone when they are ill and need support?

You are actually teaching your children boundaries and self care by leaving. At the moment all they are learning is fear. By example you are showing them that you do not stay on a sinking ship and you owe it to yourself and them to have a better life. Living in the stress of this situation day in and day out will eventually break them, so what choice does she really have?

I am all for working on marriage, but not when it becomes so damaging to everyone else.

Are you teaching your kids to give up on someone when they are ill and need support?

No but she will be teaching her kids that THEIR feelings matter just as much as their dads. THEY also need support and kindness and freedom.

Your post sounds a lot like you are blaming the OP. She has done more than enough and it’s time for him to make a bit of effort too.
Cutting him some slack? Must be nice to have that option while OP does 100% of everything else and picks up the pieces.
And he must not be questioned or asked to do ANYTHING or he’ll have a panic attack....hmmm.