You should help if a person is struggling?

[Motherhood01]

I have an autistic child and because they are without any sense of danger and have severe learning disabilities I have to place them in a trolley to shop to keep him safe.

My child is 5 and just about fits into the seat but hes heavy and he kicks and struggles,pulls my hair,lashes out(is fine once in) and basically needs two people to get him in one to guide him and one to hold him.normally I shop with my partner who guides sons legs into the trolley, this is the part which causes him distress if not done quickly,but today I was alone and desperate for essentials so I had to try myself.i couldn't get him in,he was crying stimming pulling my hair and i asked a lady walking by if she could help me,she said no I'd rather not!! I couldn't believe it,have we got to this stage in humanity that no one actually gives a toss,that all feelings of empathy have disappeared?she saw me struggling,my son crying me crying but shrugged her shoulders.
I gave up and came home without milk.
I'm crying now writing this.its tough enough being a parent of a child like mine,but today it was emphasised to me just how tough.

Sorry op, I think it was unfair to expect a total stranger to help you with a heavy 5 year old child, who is kicking out and grabbing hair. How would you have felt if she had been kicked or her hair ripped out.

I was attacked in a hotel by a similar aged child, while I was having a meal with family. This child came running up behind me and grabbed my hair, jerking my head back. It took 2 people to lever his hands off my hair, before anyone responsible for him came over. He literally took 2 handfuls of my hair out by the roots and really, really hurt my neck. I didn’t even get an apology from the person looking after him, she just kept saying to the boy to say sorry which he didn’t want to do, and to be honest I just wanted him to go away as I was in tears!

I know it must be so hard for you, but don’t blame someone (a perfect stranger, in this case) for not helping.

Also I meant to say - if people don't want to help because of social distancing or not wanting to get involved then obviously that's fine. BUT the person could have spoken to you and acknowledged your difficulty. Sometimes we just want to be seen. Especially as a parent of a SEN child, the horrible looks etc can feel like the biggest judgement on a bad day. I'd rather people would engage, even ask questions rather than just staring. Anyway ! As you say, a little empathy goes a long way and I hope you have a better experience next time.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

There is a difference between helping fallen ladies, helping to pick up shopping (I would get you the milk if you asked) and handling distraught child. What would happen if he got injured during me helping? I can't imagine anyone who doesn't have experience be willing to help physically handling him.

^^ This, with bells on.

@raffle

We have these at our Tesco, no fighting legs thro! We used them regularly with DS.

I would definitely have helped you. I would have offered to nip in for your milk if your DS was too overwhelmed.

I was going to suggest asking your store if they have one of these trollies to as soon he will be far to big to fit in a normal toddler seat. I'm sorry you had such a rough time today.

This is so hard for you. And the shrug was unhelpful.

But honestly, I would have been very shocked to have been asked (Covid or not). I wouldn’t have shrugged. But I would have said no. I don’t think it’s a sign a person doesn’t care that they wouldn’t help in this scenario.

I can understand your frustration but its your child and I wouldn't have asked a stranger to help anyway. sorry....

I think you'd have had more luck asking someone (or a member of staff) to get your shopping rather than physically assist your son, OP.

I would have a look in your local store for the trolley that has been mentioned, I know our local store has one and the seat is bigger and lower - not sure if it would restrain his legs but if they have one, I would definitely try it as it would be much easier to get him seated in.

I have to say I wouldn’t have helped, Covid or not. I’m happy to help people out for sensible things, get things off the shelf etc, but there’s no way I’d help force a fighting child into a trolley. I would never touch someone’s child. Too much chance of repercussions regardless of whether you’re helping or not. I think you were unreasonable to even ask.

I do generally try to help, even offer it, but as a parent of a SN kid who could thrash, I also understand that physically handling our kids when you don’t know their patterns can be terrifying. Add in Covid and I understand why she declined.

You’ve already heard that a bunch though. I’m really writing because I understand that giving up your child sitting in the trolley can be a big deal when your child is not Neurotypical. However, if he is as big as you describe, he really doesn’t fit anymore and keeping him in the trolley is no longer the best way to keep him safe.

I would start by trying to frequent stores that provide adaptive carts. I know they are few and far between, but they are worth seeking.

At that age I also started letting dd ride the cart by putting her feet on the base and holding on to the side. The key is that every time you stop, you give a signal and child steps off. Them they are not allowed to step on again until another signal. As you push, it’s two feet firmly planted and two hands on cart or you stop and he has to walk. This doesn’t work for all kids, but i just wanted to throw it out there in case it might work for hours.

My heart breaks for you and I’d have helped in a heartbeat because I would know how to. I think it’s fear that often stops people helping sadly. Try not to take it personally, some people don’t know how to react in these situations.

I would have been too worried about hurting him or you accusing me of hurting him.

You expected a total stranger to be willing to force a screaming distressed five year old child into a shopping trolley. A child fighting so hard one adult cannot force them into the little metal cage. I am genuinely shocked at how many people on this thread say they would do that. I do not think they would in realitt.

If you have to ask the stranger to do something you ask them to get you the milk. If the milk were really that desperately needed. Most of us have had to abandon a shopping trip at some point due to toddler trouble.

This seems a big misunderstanding of social norms, risk and other people's emotions along with a fixation on a particular course of action. Do you have ASD yourself?

Sorry but as a fellow parent of a child with ASD I wouldn't have helped you manhandle your child into a trolley, even without the pandemic.
I wouldn't risk getting hurt or your child accidentally getting hurt in the process. I would avoid all manhandling unless a child was at risk of harm.

You need a better long term solution than putting your child into a trolley that they are too big for.

Online shopping is the way to go for most shops, then practice small shops with your son where you are only getting a couple of items.

Well this is all getting quite nasty now isn’t it?

Sorry but you shouldn’t be asking that if people at this time due to the social distancing requirement. Fair enough if it’s an emergency but this wasn’t.

This seems a big misunderstanding of social norms, risk and other people's emotions along with a fixation on a particular course of action. Do you have ASD yourself?

If that’s your idea of ‘social norm’- to speak to a frazzled parent in that way and internet diagnose ASD , then goodness help society.

I have helped someone struggling with a hefty teenager who was having a meltdown in the supermarket so don’t make up things about other people not willing to help in reality.
Look at the terms some of you are using about someone’s child here, it’s foul.

As a parent of Autistic children I think you are being unreasonable. Especially at a time like this when we should be social distancing.

YWNBU. I would have helped you.

@Redhair23

This seems a big misunderstanding of social norms, risk and other people's emotions along with a fixation on a particular course of action. Do you have ASD yourself?

If that’s your idea of ‘social norm’- to speak to a frazzled parent in that way and internet diagnose ASD , then goodness help society.

I have helped someone struggling with a hefty teenager who was having a meltdown in the supermarket so don’t make up things about other people not willing to help in reality.
Look at the terms some of you are using about someone’s child here, it’s foul.

ASD is hereditary, under diagnosed in females and I am quite familiar with it due to people close to me who have it.

Physically manhandling a child you do not know, who is not in immediate danger, is most definitely against social norms in the UK.

If a person does have ASD then a clearly stated explanation tends to be helpful even though it can appear cold to the NT.

I have a strict policy of not interacting with strangers' children, let alone touching them. My sympathies are with the woman you asked.

I would have shopped for a few items for you.

YABU

I wouldn't have helped even before the pandemic. I would have simply said no,sorry. I wouldn't have felt the need to offer you an explanation.

If the child didn't seem too big for the seat but was just fighting it, I may have held the trolley still for you.

OP, you had a shitty day and a bad experience. I've been there too. I won't add to previous comments. What's done is done...

My DS sounds very similar to your boy, but my boy is 13 now. He's taller and faster than me. You can't rely on being able to physically overpower. It is too risky & you won't believe how quickly the tables will turn. You have to find other ways to cope. I gave up on bringing my boy into supermarkets. We might make a brief trip as far as a the sweets and out again, but definitely not for necessities.

For next time, please consider other options - online order for click & collect or home delivery. If it's necessary for your boys safety, get a SN Buggy. An option I've used in the past in an emergency was to call ahead to my local small local shop & asked for help. They gathered my items & brought them to the car for me. It's really worth developing relationships locally. I go the same shops frequently & try to get to know staff.

All the best & hope you get your cuppa xx

I'm really sorry but from an outside perspective, an adult is asking for help to man handle a distressed child (with mental health issues) who clearly doesn't want to go in the trolley. I've worked with adults with special needs for over 8 years. Forcing them to do something they don't want to do, is a big no no. They lash out when they feel scared/uncomfortable. If my children stand too close to their autistic class mate, he punches them in the face. Take that into account alongside covid19. People are social distancing and wearing masks. You're asking her to physically touch your child! So I feel that you're being a little unfair here. If taking him shopping is now a 2 person job, then you need to look at adapting. You can have your groceries delivered or go when your partner can have him?

I don't think I'd feel comfortable man handling a stranger's child into a trolley. In your original post you say she said "I'd rather not" which seems quite polite to be fair. In your later post you say she looked "disgusted". Is it possible that you are imagining the disgusted look? Perhaps she was feeling guilty for not helping or confused to be asked by a stranger rather than disgusted.

Lots of reasons for not helping... perhaps she was worried that you/your child have covid. Perhaps she was worried she might have covid and infect you/your child. Perhaps she was feeling anxious and just wanted to get in and out of the shop as quickly as possible. Perhaps she had a bad back/arthritis/balance issue or other ailment/condition which meant she didn't feel comfortable lifting a human. Perhaps she didn't want to get hurt by a thrashing, kicking, hairpulling child. Perhaps she has previously been physically forced into spaces/situations by others and didn't want to do the same to someone else. Perhaps she was worried that your child would thrash to the point where you/she dropped him and didn't want responsibility for injuring a child. Perhaps she was having a bad day. Perhaps she was surprised at being asked. Perhaps she just didn't want to. There are loads of reasons she might've declined to help, but that does make her unreasonable.

Obviously none of that makes things any easier for you and I'm sorry that you had a shit day. Would it be easier to put your DC in the main bit of the trolley, rather than in the seat? If he only just fits into it, perhaps he is protesting so vehemently because it is uncomfortable. Or could you get him to push the trolley with you eg his hands in the middle of the bar and you behind him with your hands either side of his?

Honestly I would always help normally. But during pandemic times if I was worried about catching it I would have said no. A lot more kindly than that lady though.

If you're ever in a similar situation, could you possibly ask somebody (preferably someone who works at the shop) to buy the milk for you? Obviously giving them the change to do so. It would be a lot easier for people to feel comfortable doing that at a time like this