You should help if a person is struggling?

[Motherhood01]

I have an autistic child and because they are without any sense of danger and have severe learning disabilities I have to place them in a trolley to shop to keep him safe.



My child is 5 and just about fits into the seat but hes heavy and he kicks and struggles,pulls my hair,lashes out(is fine once in) and basically needs two people to get him in one to guide him and one to hold him.normally I shop with my partner who guides sons legs into the trolley, this is the part which causes him distress if not done quickly,but today I was alone and desperate for essentials so I had to try myself.i couldn't get him in,he was crying stimming pulling my hair and i asked a lady walking by if she could help me,she said no I'd rather not!! I couldn't believe it,have we got to this stage in humanity that no one actually gives a toss,that all feelings of empathy have disappeared?she saw me struggling,my son crying me crying but shrugged her shoulders.
I gave up and came home without milk.
I'm crying now writing this.its tough enough being a parent of a child like mine,but today it was emphasised to me just how tough.

[ddl1]

'It's not covid. It's an actual chance of injury to the child or the person helping. What would happen if someone got injured? It's not safe for someone without experience to physically handle distressed child and it should not be asked unless the child is in danger.'

You are right. Indeed, professionals (teachers, physiotherapists, care workers), who may have to lift or move a child with special needs beyond the toddler stage, are often required to receive some training and to fill in a risk assessment form. If the child were able to co-operate, it might be just a matter of guiding his legs, but if he is in a state where he cannot, it might require much more skilled manoeuvering. And he might well co-operate less with a stranger than with his mother or father.

I understand that the OP was desperate, but it would have been better and safer for her to ask someone else to deal with the shopping for her, while she settled the child.

And I hope that she can get some sort of help with the child. Does he attend school or nursery? Could the GP perhaps give some advice as to some assistance that she could seek? Would a neighbour be able to shop for her at times when her partner isn't available?

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

It's not covid. It's an actual chance of injury to the child or the person helping. What would happen if someone got injured? It's not safe for someone without experience to physically handle distressed child and it should not be asked unless the child is in danger.

[category12]

Child was crying, stimming and pulling his mother's hair - OP describes it as " hes heavy and he kicks and struggles,pulls my hair,lashes out".

That doesn't sound like a simple case of "guiding" legs.

[Lovemusic33]

It’s hardly manhandling a child guiding his legs through the holes in a trolly seat 🤔 sometimes a extra hand is needed, no force needed.

I would help even with the covid risk (we are all masked at a supermarket) but can see why some people wouldn’t want too. Shopping with a child with autism can be bloody hard work, I do most of my food shopping online or when my dd is with her father but now she’s older she enjoys going to the supermarket, we go when it’s not too busy, she often flaps, stims and talks to herself and people stare and mumble under their breathe, it’s not easy.

OP, your post reminds me of when dd got stuck in trolley in Boots, several members of staff tried to help me remove her and we were close to having to call for help to have her cut out when she released herself 😂😂

[category12]

Covid's got bugger all to do with it - I wouldn't manhandle a stranger's child before Covid and I wouldn't do it now.

[Superfoodie123]

YANBU I'd rather risk my life than not help another mum in that situation. Just shows what the covid agenda has done to us

[StyleandBeautyfail]

@formerbabe

I don't even think in the ops situation that you need to physically help...a kind look, supportive comment, solidarity smile...these things can help

This is extremely unrealistic .
Everyone is shopping with masks on, getting in and out quickly.
Many people are very anxious and also whats a supportive comment?
Likely anything you say will end up with myob or F off !

[EatsShootsAndRuns]

Sorry OP but I agree with (what seems like the majority) and the other shopper.

An already distressed child to be manhandled into a seat that's too small for him? There's no way on god’s green earth that I would have helped you. You need to find a better solution for occasions that you are shopping by yourself with him. Or shop online.

[Shamp]

I wouldn't help in this situation and I would probably give a strange look if you kept pushing it. I think it's quite a big ask to help a stranger's child in a physical way when they're in the middle of a meltdown.

[LionessRoar]

I am sorry but I also wouldn’t help. I am inexperienced with children and am autistic myself. You wouldn’t know that to look at me and I mask well but unexpected social interactions produce a panic response in me and I wouldn’t know how to answer. Also your child’s shouts and screams would be painful for me due to sensory issues and i would have to escape the situation as quickly as possible to avoid having a full meltdown. I am very sensitive though and would probably feel upset and guilty for several days for not helping you. So many people seem to forget that autistic children grow into autistic adults or that other peoples struggles are often invisible. I’m sorry you and your son had such a bad day

[NoSleepInTheHeat]

I wouldn’t approach a child I don’t know if he was screaming, kicking and pulling hair! How would I know he wasn’t going to punch me in the face or something??

[Miseryl]

She may have had a hidden disability or illness herself? YABU to judge a stranger you know nothing about.

[EleanorOalike]

She wasn’t rude or cruel. She said “I’d rather not”.

And you pushed it further and demanded again. She only shrugged. The “look of disgust”...did that really happen or are you imagining it?

I’ve got one of those faces which betrays what I’m thinking. In all honesty, I’d think it was really unreasonable and irrational to ask someone, especially in a Covid pandemic but really at anytime, to wrestle a violent five year old that was a complete stranger to me and posed a risk to me (physically and Covid wise) into a trolley that was clearly too small for them. I don’t want hurt. I don’t want opened up to litigation. And I’m not a bad person.

If you go around with the view that someone saying “I’d rather not” to a really irrational request is cruel and that it’s a terrible world as a result of that, then you are going to find the world a much more negative place than it actually is. This was a totally unreasonable request on your behalf.

[Ellisandra]

I wouldn’t have been prepared to physically force an upset child into a trolley. My nephew is autistic, so I think I would have recognised a meltdown for what it is - incidentally, anyone other than his known family would make him far more distressed.

I’d absolutely have offered to shop for you though.

I’m sorry it’s so tough ❤️

[WhereTheCrawdadsSing]

@formerbabe

I don't even think in the ops situation that you need to physically help...a kind look, supportive comment, solidarity smile...these things can help

Oh yes completely! And I also agree that helping by doing the shopping or just being kind would have been so much better and what I hope I would have done.

But, no, if a parent asked me to assist her to put her distressed 5yo child into a toddler trolley seat which he didn't appear to want to be put into, I would have said no. Not because I have the covid fear, (although this woman may do, for her own reasons). But because, honestly, I would see the distressed child, see the trolley seat and think he probably doesn't want to go in there. Why would I force him? The op knows her son and knows he is fine when he is in there, but I wouldn't know that, so would just see the upset kid being manhandled into a seat which is far too small for him. Why would I ever agree to be part of that? Actually quite worrying that so many people are proudly declaring they would, no questions asked. Not because, having read the op, I think she was doing anything terrible, but just thinking how the scenario would have looked at first glance, it is quite surprising that people would engage in physically forcing a very distressed young child with SEN into a seat to small for him, simply because they were asked by the accompanying adult.

But definitely think, had she asked me to get her shopping or something else, I'd have done that I think.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

She probably gave you a dirty look for pushing the issue. She clearly felt uncomfortable, so her boundaries needed to be respected whatever the reason.


I agree with this and the pps who said it may have really not been a disgusted look. I have an expressive face and if I were pushed into trying to help to physically handle a child mid meltdown, I too would probably not have a friendly smile on...

I am genuinely surprised at number of people willing to help manhandle said child. I assume you all have experience? I can't imagine that being safe if you don't.

[formerbabe]

I don't even think in the ops situation that you need to physically help...a kind look, supportive comment, solidarity smile...these things can help

[formerbabe]

People can be horrible...I remember walking down the road with my DC and I slipped on some wet leaves and fell flat on my face. There was a woman standing at a bus stop...she turned round, looked at me lying on the pavement and then turned back. I'd always ask if someone was ok.

Unfortunately I also got a really dirty look from a parent when I stopped their child falling between the gap between a train and the platform. Parents was busy sorting out luggage whilst their toddler got closer and closer to the edge. I didn't even touch the child, I literally knelt down and put my arm in front of them and said "wait for your daddy sweetheart". Dad looked at me like I was about to kidnap his child.

[leftovercoffeecake]

Pandemic or not, there’s no way I would man handle a distressed child into a trolley. I don’t want to get hurt. I don’t want to hurt them.

Just because the woman said no to your rather unreasonable request, that doesn’t make her cruel or selfish. Nor does she owe you an explanation. She probably gave you a dirty look for pushing the issue. She clearly felt uncomfortable, so her boundaries needed to be respected whatever the reason.

It’s great that so many other posters said they would have helped, but that doesn’t mean anyone who wouldn’t is a terrible person.

[SushiGo]

I'm really sorry that she looked disgusted, no one deserves that and don't take it to heart.

However forcing your child into the trolley seat has reached the end of it's usefulness for you as a family. He is clearly too big and too strong now.

I think you need to explore other options. How is he with distractions? Is there something he really likes that he can have only while in the supermarket to build up a positive association?

[knittingaddict]

I'm someone who isn't afraid to interfere/help complete strangers. I would have said no on this occasion, for two reasons.

1. Covid
   
   
2. I would not want to be helping to manhandle a small child I didn't know, even if the parent asked me to. It goes against all my instincts and would override my desire to help.

[JinglesWish]

I think helping you pick up a bag or skip the queue or grab you a pint of milk, would have been a nice thing to do and what most good citizens would do to help a stranger.

I do think you’re unreasonable to expect help with physically managing a child having a tantrum. I wouldn’t want to touch someone else’s child, either getting injured myself or potentially being accused of hurting the child. And that’s before you add in the concerns around social distancing and interacting with strangers. Sorry to hear you had a tough time with your DC, but I don’t think you can rely on strangers to help in this situation l.

[Sailingblue]

Unless you’re child is particularly small, It can’t be comfortable. There is no way my 4yo would fit into the toddler seats of a trolley. Tbh I don’t blame him for kicking off as it can’t be comfortable even if you can just get him in. Do you have the option of a more specialised buggy? The trolley doesn’t seem viable really.

[Fennelandlovage]

Hi OP I am so sorry that sounds really stressful although def not clear cut in the time of Covid. Lots of people avoiding contact even with their close family members.

I wanted to write to you because my child almost died in an accident where a trolly up ended in a Super market and the whole trolly and child pivoted forwards and head first the floor. Please make sure your child is within the weight limits for the trolley you are using. I suspect you may need to consider other options soon as your DC grows. Might be worth speaking to hv to see if there is any support available. I am so sorry that every day tasks are so hard for you it sounds very tough.

[Adarajames]

I would’ve helped you Op.
I’d’ve asked if it would be easier if I did your shopping for you, whilst you calmed your child in preference to assisting with physically manoeuvring your child, but had you said you just needed help getting your child into the trolley, then I would’ve assisted under your instruction. (Although probably just double checked with you that this really was your preferred option).

I would have a mask on in a shop anyway, and antibac stuff on me, so covid risk would be minimal, and I think it’s important we still do treat each other with kindness and don’t let fear stop all interaction with people that reach out to us, but I’m just that way inclined really.