To think if you chose to go abroad during a pandemic it serves you right?

[FunnysInLaJardin]

I get that folk feel they deserve a holiday, but if you travel during the current pandemic you shouldn't complain if rules suddenly change before you get home.

Anyone with half a wit could see that it was a risky thing to do to take a holiday at this time.

It's off if people complain or seem surprised, yes. But plenty, as per PP, will have weighed it up and decided to take the risk. I did, albeit with a trip to Italy, where rates are low. And it was a trip booked well into the pandemic, due to a fantastic late notice invitation. If Gov quarantine and FCO advice had changed before travel, we'd have cancelled. If it had changed while we were out there, we'd have complied with quarantine on our return. No complaints. It's was a gamble, we went, it was bloody marvellous. Not sure I deserve any opprobrium for that set of decisions.

I think it's a massive risk to take right now, and people have to be prepared mentally and financially for the worst. You need to be prepared to be locked down and stuck out there, or to deal with having to self-isolate when you get back. If you knew the risks and still went abroad you have to pull up your big girl panties or big boy panties and get on with it. Sorry if this is harsh or elitist because I know a LOT of people won't be able to financially do that or will have significant disruption to their lives.

I think it's ok to complain though, at worst it's a huge problem to be caught out like that and at best it's an annoying inconvenience.

I feel sorry for people who booked their holidays or trips to see family/businesses/whatever prior to air bridges and covid-19.

I wouldn't suggest that 'serves you right' is a helpful analysis but I would say that people holidaying abroad this summer need to factor in uncertainties about quarantine and the like. We're in the middle of a global health emergency and certainly my instinct is to stay close to home. Surviving the first peak of Covid-19 and lockdown doesn't make a holiday abroad some sort of human right that justifies bitter complaints when the inevitable consequences hit. I'm not smug, nor jealous and neither do I blame anyone who wants to get away.

Why do you think the risk is greater at home?

it may well be depending where in Spain she is and where she is returning to in the UK.

The area I am in there has been no deaths and less than 100 cases. The reported cases are in the major cities.
People need to stop all the hysterics about it, not believe the media, especially the death figures. The numbers are very very distorted.

And also, everyone on the beaches here are socially distancing, masks are worn everyone. Police and council employed workers are everywhere. Announcements are regularly made on the beaches. All streets and roads are sprayed every day.
Numbers are low in england where I live, but there is a beach which are over crowded with day trippers and no social distancing whatsever.

Well we were supposed to be going to France next week and again next Sept. So next week is scuppered obviously, we've rebooked somewhere else, and we're hoping and crossing our fingers that cases come down enough to make the Sept holiday still a possibility (albeit there's probably a fairly low chance). We're not complaining. We're very disappointed of course, and DP and I have been moaning to each other, but we knew there was always the risk of this happening so we've just got on with rearranging plans. It doesn't 'serve us right' and no need to be judgy just because we wanted to go on holiday. We've been working flat out through all this and have literally had two days off in January, that's it. So yes, I hope we do still get to go on holiday, nothing unreasonable in trying to make that happen. If it doesn't, c'est la vie.

@FunnysInLaJardin

To clarify, I was talking about people who booked a holiday after the pandemic started.

If you go away for what ever reason and don't complain when it goes wrong then fine, I have no problem with that,

Its the people who booked when they knew the risks and then complain bitterly that its all gone wrong. In that case I think it does serve you right.

This entirely. I've not planned a holiday but if I do in this situation, I have to take 100% of the blame if I have to quarantine and I would do so. Especially if I went to somewhere high risk.

YANBU

As the saying goes, you get whatcha vote for. So prepare for rules being changes with a 5 minutes' notice for no logical reason whatsoever.

I went to France for a month, knowing full well that I may have to quarantine when I came back. As I can WFH, this was no issue at all.
As it is, I came back yesterday, so no quarantine for me, but it was a calculated choice with no skin of my nose tbh. Worth it worth it worth it.

If people booked before the pandemic I have some sympathy. Not if you booked in the last few weeks.

What I object to is the government announcing things late at night. The France addition could have been earlier in the day, indeed on Tuesday after the French Prime Minister spoke re the number of infections. The timing on Thursday evening seemed to me to be to try to bury the criticisms re A level results.

@Friendsoftheearth

I COULD be going to packed pubs / beaches / parks and mixing with two households in my garden. I would be going to my local (very busy) supermarket where I am usually the only one bothering with a mask and no one bothers with social distancing anymore

The beaches and pubs are NOT packed by any stretch.
Everyone is wearing masks now and SD has been in place since spring

But you can carry on deluding yourself if you want.

I’m not deluding myself! My local supermarket in England IS very busy, hardly anyone bothers with a mask, SD is non existent. I know It’s been in place since spring and I’ve been wearing a mask in shops since then too. I’ve been working through lockdown with no mask as not allowed in my workplace. I walk past a pub and a park regularly - they ARE just as busy as a normal August.... which is VERY busy, NO SD!

@saywhatnowerm

BUT I had the choice of losing over £2.5K by not coming on holiday or losing 3 days pay when I return......

See thats obvs a no brainer. But the reason I didn't go was because of void travel insurance. In case of accident/illness/damage I assumed by default we would not be covered

My travel insurance is fine so long as there were no restrictions on travel at time of departure.

As far as pandemics go, I’ve looked at my travel policy and for the past several years that ive had an annual policy it states that cancellation partly or fully caused by a global pandemic are not covered. I WOULD have been covered if I’d cancelled due to one of us catching Covid though.

At the time we left, the FCO had no warnings about travel to France.

Please explain to us how a border impacts the virus spread?

How the fact that it is ABROAD can increase the risk?

Before you ask, I am in France #noregerts

Like you I'm getting sick of the holidaymakers droning on about it.
Imo holidays abroad or in UK should never have been permitted.

Thankfully your opinion doesn't matter.

Forgot to add @FunnysInLaJardin I'm not in France!

Sorry haven't read thread (cardinal sin) and whilst I do agree with you that there is always a risk and you accept the risk, I can understand peoples frustration in that I was in Paris last week and can say that social distancing and mask wearing is taken MUCH more seriously there than it is here so I imagine going to places and travelling on public transport is much more of a risk in a UK city than in Paris at least (from my experience) so I can see why people would find it frustrating.

I think most people are aware of the risk.

We had booked to take our son to Disneyland Paris for his birthday pre-Covid.

Our trip was then put off until September.

I’m not sure what is going to happen.

Does it “serve me right” if I need to quarantine upon my return? The situation is completely outwith my control. Luckily I can wfh, as can my DH.

Some people are not so lucky. What is their alternative? To lose out on the money that they have paid? Luckily, I can afford to write off the cost of the trip.

Again, others are not so lucky and I can see why some are upset that the rules have changed, whether or not they anticipated the risk.

Why let it bother you? No need to gloat that “it serves you right”. You don’t know people’s situations.

Depends what OP means by "shouldn't complain", or specifically, what does it mean to "complain"

Moan because life is unfair: this is fine. Life IS unfair. And moaning is the British national pastime. You may as well ban cups of tea if you're gonna ban moaning. Including moaning about things that were obviously high chance might happen.

If complain = Demand compensation or rule change, that type of complaining is unreasonable.

It has been reported for days now that France's figures were going the wrong way and that quarantine was likely so if somebody is actually complaining then I have no sympathy.

We cancelled our summer holiday to France a few weeks ago. We should have been going today. Yes we were disappointed but better to not go than to get sick or quarantine.

Our employers made it very clear that anybody in quarantine would have to us unpaid/paid leave.

We're almost at the end of our two week quarantine. Booked holiday to Spain in January, obviously no idea what was about to happen.
Right up until the day we left we didn't know if we'd get to go. Wouldn't have gone if FCO were advising against as wouldn't risk not being insured. When we flew the quarantine was in place, got lifted the day after we arrived only to get reinstated 5 days later!
We were prepared though and I was lucky enough to be able work from home. Husband still furloughed. Kids missed first day back to school but they were each only due to be in one day before school starts full time on Monday.
Heard from my son that he overheard a neighbour saying she was watching to see if we left the house so she could report us 🙄. We haven't, obviously.

I agree with you OP. We cancelled our holiday because I didn’t want to take the risk. Others have made their choice and taken the risk (fair enough, up to them) so they shouldn’t be surprised if things change quickly and they’ll just have to deal with the consequences.

We're kind of on the opposite side of the argument.
Came to visit DM as soon as we were able to mid July and are now wondering if it when we will return to UK.
We're in Spain in a region where numbers have been increasing fast over the past three weeks and sadly deaths too in recent days though numbers still relatively low.
DD1 is coming home early so she can quarantine and get back to her house and job at uni as soon as she is able.
DD2 about to start yr11.
School are aware why we're here (hospital treatment for 'elderly' DM)
We're planning on returning at the earliest 4 days after term starts plus 2 weeks quarantine.
But in my mind by then U.K. numbers will be very similar to here and in a similar situation so am anticipating disruption to schools again.
My dichotomy is that although I want my child back in education, if it's going to be erratic (no fault of teachers!) should we just sit it out here.
At the moment there's a lot of chatter about full lockdown heading to Spain mid September.
In my mind is that if UK are in the same situation a few weeks after I know where my family and I are safest.
You might just see the numbers but here we see what's happening. Local lockdowns, great communication, respect of authorities.
For instance, yesterday a local fruit and veg place reported in our small town two cases and within a few hours word had got out that anyone who'd been into that place within previous 24 hours should self isolate. And guess what, 24 people are now self isolating.
My point is that U.K. should not be pontificating that their figures are so much better but should be projecting so it doesn't have to face these. See absolutely no evidence that gives me confidence that they are.

So as things stand I'm not sure if I want to come back to UK

Totally agree. My friend is currently in France. But went know that this was likely to happen. And was prepared to quarantine on going home. Not sure why people on the BBC are complaining that they have had time to make an informed decision.

@Toddlerteaplease I think they find the people that make the saddest story and excite the types at home that believe OP is not unreasonable. Makes better telly.

People like your friend, and thousands like her, that made a risk based decision on their personal circumstances aren't interesting to OP and her friends because they've factored in the change of circumstances and are rolling with them.

Then there's the poor fuckers that were pre-booked, financially driven to go or lose loads of money and are now scrambling to get home to avoid quarantine. If the Govt hadn't opened the air bridges they'd have got their money back from the insurers.