To think if you chose to go abroad during a pandemic it serves you right?

[FunnysInLaJardin]

I get that folk feel they deserve a holiday, but if you travel during the current pandemic you shouldn't complain if rules suddenly change before you get home.

Anyone with half a wit could see that it was a risky thing to do to take a holiday at this time.

YANBU to think that if people take the risk of going abroad they take it knowing that the rules could change with very little notice. YABU to use the phrase "serves you right" which implies that people have done something bad and wrong and deserve to be punished for their decision to take a foreign holiday.

Anyone going abroad at the moment should accept that it's unpredictable - you may get lucky and things may go according to plan, but there's every chance they may not. I wouldn't be comfortable with that level of risk myself so I wouldn't take it. If you do, fair enough, so long as you don't whinge if you get caught out by changing quarantine rules.

Agree and disagree. I would not choose to travel abroad during a pandemic. But some people feel it's worth the risk and I think they still get to be annoyed when (foreseeable) rule changes affect them. They can be annoyed and own their decisions simultaneously. Of course they'd be unreasonable to make a big fuss and demand government compensation, etc, but I think most people just have a little grumble, don't they?
People moan all the time about things their decisions have had a hand in.
If I travel on the UK roads on a Saturday in August, I'm still likely to complain about the traffic, for example.

I sympathise with the people it's affecting, no one "deserves" it but I didn't book a holiday for now or anytime soon because it's gonna be a minefield for the next 6 months

Sooty we were due to fly to Spain on 31/7, like you I was prepared to quarantine on return, but not to travel against FCO guidance.

After about 3 or 4 days, I was able to change my flights to next year with no fees, although the flights next year are more expensive,

That was Easyjet

I COULD be going to packed pubs / beaches / parks and mixing with two households in my garden. I would be going to my local (very busy) supermarket where I am usually the only one bothering with a mask and no one bothers with social distancing anymore

The beaches and pubs are NOT packed by any stretch.
Everyone is wearing masks now and SD has been in place since spring

But you can carry on deluding yourself if you want.

This thread is so obviously a 'light the touch paper and step back'.

So many threads these days are planted by god knows who, who wants to watch the argument ensue. Journalist? Dunno. But they always seem to be subjects which cause divisiveness which tends to make me think that's exactly the aim, as well as gathering opinion ...

Holidays are definitely the new brexit!

Friends and family will be divided by the issue, and you can't unwind what you witness in a person's choices in a pandemic.

Boils down to entitlement in my view, those that feel they 'deserve a holiday for x,y and z reasons ' and those that care enough to shelve their holidays for the greater good.

No different to the loo rolls and stock piling of calpol.

BUT I had the choice of losing over £2.5K by not coming on holiday or losing 3 days pay when I return......

See thats obvs a no brainer. But the reason I didn't go was because of void travel insurance. In case of accident/illness/damage I assumed by default we would not be covered

I agree with the OP that people can't book holidays and go on them in uncertain times and then moan when things change. Things have been changing week by week for 6 months now. If you want to go on holiday then you need to have a back up plan for quarantine. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to travel but you have to accept the risks and consequences.

Having said all that I will say some people's attitudes are appalling. Name calling people who are still being cautious or don't want to go out/travel. Everyone needs to remember that people are still dying and however small that number may be even 1 death is still a family mourning a loved one. Whilst the virus is still around as is then GP surgeries and hospitals can't fully open, people can't visit relatives in care, people can't visit their newborn baby relatives etc

One year without an abroad holiday, extra hand washing and wearing a mask when/if you can isn't much to ask.

Taking a minimal risk travelling between two barely affected regions to visit elderly relatives you might never see again is not like buying 48 loo rolls at a time.

she Travelling an hour or two in your own country is minimal travelling in my view. Visiting elderly relatives in a pandemic whilst travelling across two countries is not the wisest choice as you could make them seriously ill!! Perhaps the elderly relatives need a rethink on their living arrangements no?

@IAintentDead

Ner ner ner I'm right - you're wrong told you so

I hope you feel good OP

I'm going abroad next month - and you know what, I don't give a toss what any jealous little person back home thinks.

Anyone that gives a toss what you think is ...

I give a toss what OP thinks. That’s why I read MN threads......for differences of opinions and in most cases, intelligent discussion and sharing of ideas whether i agree with them or not.

I personally wouldn’t go abroad for a holiday right now but if I had family abroad I might feel differently. It might be the only chance to see them for a while. I would however make sure I couldn’t transmit anything on my return and factor in an isolation period should it be imposed part way through.

@Fletchings

If you move abroad to make your life there permanently, surely you accept that there is a realistic risk that you will never see relatives from your home country in person ever again

you don't. There are planes, trains, ferries, cars. Pre covid, nobody could imagine today's situation and knowing that you can see your family after a 2h flight is something which I (and a lot of other people I know of who moved country) took into consideration when making the move.

Even now, there isn't really an issue getting to lots of countries. I am also one of the egoistic assholes who visited elderly parents in Europe earlier this Summer so my judgement might be clouded.

@Fletchings I actually can’t believe people are being so ridiculous as to say that those who moved abroad should have predicted that something like this was going to happen. It’s a pity all of these smug psychics didn’t give the rest of us a heads up.

Perhaps the elderly relatives need a rethink on their living arrangements no?

What on earth do you mean?

To clarify, I was talking about people who booked a holiday after the pandemic started.

If you go away for what ever reason and don't complain when it goes wrong then fine, I have no problem with that,

Its the people who booked when they knew the risks and then complain bitterly that its all gone wrong. In that case I think it does serve you right.

@CouldBeOuting

My holiday (yes in France) was booked and oId for last Autumn.

If I was at home right now then I COULD be going to packed pubs / beaches / parks and mixing with two households in my garden. I would be going to my local (very busy) supermarket where I am usually the only one bothering with a mask and no one bothers with social distancing anymore.

I AM in rural France. I drove all the way here and had no contact with anyone but DH & DC (only one DC - haven’t seen the other one since this started as she lives away at uni). I am in an isolated gite with no one else around, private pool etc. Every few days I go to to the local supermarket. It is not busy and I’ve never seen anyone without a mask. Social distancing is very much followed. I am under more effective quarantine here than if I were at home!

BUT I had the choice of losing over £2.5K by not coming on holiday or losing 3 days pay when I return......

Sounds wonderful! Have a lovely time. It sounds like The people of France are being much more mature about Covid. And you are quite right about all the social distancing and masks. A lot of it is nonsensical.

I lived overseas for six years, everyone should have a plan of what happens when things go wrong. Spending a week on your own in a hospital trying to figure out what is wrong with you because your language skills do not stretch to medical terms is not unheard of, and was my experience on at least one occasion.

Anyone elderly moving overseas surely must have weighed up the issues of being old and infirm without support and thousands of miles away from family. After all, it is their decision to retire there as adults, and maybe covid has been a reminder that international travel is a privilege not a right. You can't relocate without some downsides, most people will have considered this. The onus is not on the rest of the family to visit in the middle of a pandemic though.

The tit for tat from the French government is childish and unhelpful!

They seem to have taken it personally.

UK: 18 cases per 100,000
France: 30 cases in rural areas/50 cases in Paris/Marseille per 100,000

There is a vast difference!

Whilst I acknowledge it's a risk, I do think the announcements should be done in a morning and not late evening when all helplines and companies are closed.

So if the news had been out at 8am people have the day to sort it. Even if travelling that day at least things are open and they can attempt to make calls.

As it is, at 10pm it's much harder as no one will answer calls and help lines or chat lines on website aren't open.

I've enjoyed a lovely fortnight in France and all was great. We've been back a fortnight now with no issues.

Dd was due to fly out to France again in Monday. Was a rubbish way to end an already stressful a level results days. But at least they've time to sort it.

We have friends over there at the moment and they can quarantine as both are working from anyway. They may try and come home two days earlier so that their youngest won't miss any school.

Those going this morning I do feel for - some will have got up this morning not knowing the rules changed over night. It wasn't in the 6pm news so they probably felt safe to pack. Now they've woken up and have to make quick decisions, try and get new insurance or try and cancel at the last moment. So yes, whilst they knew the risk I do feel for them having to do lots of stuff very last minute.

It's possible to have sympathy, or empathy, whilst still acknowledging it was a a potential risk.

I still feel for Dd and her friends who will lose money they can bill afford as the likes of Ryan air are unlikely to refund them their flight costs despite foreign office advise changing.

Anyone elderly moving overseas surely must have weighed up the issues of being old and infirm without support and thousands of miles away from family.

sometimes children move away, you know.

Also some people booked these trips way before Covid was on the scene, and the won't get refunds if they'd cancelled earlier in the summer. Surely they deserve some empathy at least?!

We are not talking about younger adults, we were talking about elderly relatives living overseas fletchings

People travelling to France (unless they've had their heads up their arses for the last 6 weeks) will have known there was a chance of this happening.

To say it 'serves them right' is completely wankerish.

I 100% agree with you!