To think anyone TTC now is mad?

[absolutelybloodyanonymous]

Given the GDP fall-economy disaster, rising unemployment, coronavirus, does it seem bloody mad to be TTC now?

I’ve got mates and family who are TTC or already upduffed and it seems absolutely mad to me. Why does RIGHT NOW feel like a good time to TTC? AIBU?

(Nc for this!)

I agree that these people aren’t as happy as they claim to be. I remember feeling bitter and jealous at all my friends marrying and having babies but I recognised how I was feeling. I didn’t tell anybody else apart from a friend in the same boat or post about it on Mumsnet.

I wonder how many of these angry people haven’t been able to have children for various reasons? This is by no means aimed at childfree people who post on here, just the angry ranting ones who claim we “breeders” are crazy and selfish.

I would like to know which year in the last 50 years (say) was the correct and responsible year to TTC and/or have a child.

I’m going to say it was 2019, the year I had my son. Those were halcyon days. Climate change and overpopulation weren’t a thing. Neither was crime. Childcare was pleasantly affordable. There was no looming Brexit. Tons of school places. No conflict. The NHS was coping just fine.

Yes 2019 was great, I made an excellent choice. What a great parent (and person) I am. But 2020? You must be mad, you irresponsible loons.

Well, I hate my job and I was half way to changing careers in March. But what I wanted to do is no longer hiring. My current job is recession-proof and pays well. Since I can't leave anymore, why not make a baby and take a year off work? I get 6 months full pay mat leave. My DP doesn't want a baby yet so we're not TTC but I would do it otherwise.

I'm sorry if I have upset other posters by talking about my feelings about the climate. I am also sorry, OP, that some seem to think you are me and are giving you a hard time because of some things I have posted?
I am not raising this because I am interacting anonymously online; it is a conversation I have in RL too. The thread title resonated with my experience of feeling awful about my DC having to face the consequences of my maternal urge. As awful as I felt when working through not having DC. Yes, the PP who pointed out that we were already in trouble 10 years ago is of course right, and is also right to point out that I let my deep desire for a baby override my (then limited) understanding of the full complexity of the issues we would be facing in the decades to come. I'd been trying for 7 years at that point and it was my whole life. I chose to look for a best case outcome, and also had no real global overview.
I realise that this may not have been best aired on a thread predominantly about covid which would likely be seen by women who, like me, have experienced or are experiencing anxiety around conception for a range of reasons.

Yes, the PP who pointed out that we were already in trouble 10 years ago is of course right, and is also right to point out that I let my deep desire for a baby override my (then limited) understanding of the full complexity of the issues we would be facing in the decades to come. I'd been trying for 7 years at that point and it was my whole life. I chose to look for a best case outcome, and also had no real global overview.

If this is the case then why did you say you would have had the strength of character not to have a baby if you had known about climate change? Thus implying that anyone now having a baby lacks that strength of character?

Mumsnet is one of the most judgmental sites on the internet and your post still managed to shock me.

Well, at least you've apologised. As someone who made the choice to have children despite knowing that climate change was likely to be a big issue, to then come on here in support of posters who called anyone TTC at the moment "mad, selfish and stupid", is beyond hypocritical. I'm sorry you regret your children. I'm very sorry for them too. Suggest you concentrate on raising them to be more resilient than you are, instead of retrospectively trying to get your angel wings - because you can't go back in time, if you say you regret it enough, you think that will undo what you regret doing. Now THAT my love is fucking selfish. Woman up. You are their mother.

Sorry, I'm becoming harsh aren't I? This has clearly ground my gears a little.

@Monkeynuts18

I would like to know which year in the last 50 years (say) was the correct and responsible year to TTC and/or have a child.

I’m going to say it was 2019, the year I had my son. Those were halcyon days. Climate change and overpopulation weren’t a thing. Neither was crime. Childcare was pleasantly affordable. There was no looming Brexit. Tons of school places. No conflict. The NHS was coping just fine.

Yes 2019 was great, I made an excellent choice. What a great parent (and person) I am. But 2020? You must be mad, you irresponsible loons.

You're wrong, it was 2018. I know it must have been because that's when I had DS and I'm very morally strong and so wouldn't have had him at a bad time.

The good news for everyone is that I'm pretty certain that Feb 2021 will be roses and sunshine so that I can keep my halo.

@Hardbackwriter and @Monkeynuts18 .

And my previous post was to warmth, obviously.

Warmth

I got where you are coming from.

@WarmthAndDepth thank you for the more nuanced and thoughtful post but I don't really think you can row back from the sheer hypocrisy and nastiness of your original post, which was clearly deliberately aiming to make other women feel bad and guilty. Trying to share your own regret around won't actually make it any lesser.

Aquatic, I said that, at the time, my understanding was limited enough to allow me to gloss over the bleak outlook and focus on a best case scenario. Massive cognitive dissonance. I really wanted it to be OK. I'm not looking to stick the boot in, but I have obviously completely misread the room on this thread, as this is a conversation I have with both friends and colleagues in RL. Apologies again.

[quote Hardbackwriter]@WarmthAndDepth thank you for the more nuanced and thoughtful post but I don't really think you can row back from the sheer hypocrisy and nastiness of your original post, which was clearly deliberately aiming to make other women feel bad and guilty. Trying to share your own regret around won't actually make it any lesser.[/quote]
This^^

And regretting having children will not make your children immune from harm. It may actually do more harm to them than good.

@TheMarshGirl I think I love you

@WarmthAndDepth that’s a big climb down, but you can’t retcon your original post in which you quite explicitly said that if we had known about climate change 10 years ago you would have had sufficient character not to have your children.

I'm not looking to stick the boot in, but I have obviously completely misread the room on this thread, as this is a conversation I have with both friends and colleagues in RL.

Friends and colleagues, I'm guessing, who like you have completed their own families? It's fine, if a bit grim, if you want to play 'ooh I'd never do it now' as a sort of parlour game that lets you all feel all warm and fuzzy about being so morally superior. It's completely different, and unacceptable, to tell women who don't yet have their children that they should remain childless and that if they don't it's because they're morally weaker than you. If you are doing that in real life then please, please, please stop it.

@Hardbackwriter

I'm not looking to stick the boot in, but I have obviously completely misread the room on this thread, as this is a conversation I have with both friends and colleagues in RL.

Friends and colleagues, I'm guessing, who like you have completed their own families? It's fine, if a bit grim, if you want to play 'ooh I'd never do it now' as a sort of parlour game that lets you all feel all warm and fuzzy about being so morally superior. It's completely different, and unacceptable, to tell women who don't yet have their children that they should remain childless and that if they don't it's because they're morally weaker than you. If you are doing that in real life then please, please, please stop it.

@WarmthAndDepth please read this^ and take note.

@TheAquaticDuchess .

I'm sorry if I have upset other posters by talking about my feelings about the climate.

There's no 'if' about it. You did upset other posters. And quite a bit. Do you know how painful it is not to be able to conceive your own child? Or what recurring miscarriages are like? Or to keep getting negative pregnancy tests month after month, for years on end? To feel like an absolute failure as a woman because your body can't perform this basic biological function? And before anyone starts on me, I know not procreating doesn't make you any less female, but this is how it makes me feel.

And for those who have children already to have the audacity to tell us that we are being selfish can fuck right off with their smug, gloating judgement and shove it where the sun don't shine.

You have already had your babies, so you have no right whatsoever telling other that they can't do the same.

@WarmthAndDepth “ Aquatic, I said that, at the time, my understanding was limited enough to allow me to gloss over the bleak outlook and focus on a best case scenario. Massive cognitive dissonance. I really wanted it to be OK.”

How convenient for you.....

WarmthAndDepth, do you have these conversations with friends and colleagues who have told you they they desperately want to conceive and have a limited time left? Or is it just with internet strangers that you think that is appropriate, as you live your life with your DC that you didn't have the "strength of character" to miss out on?

@absolutelybloodyanonymous
Which figures are you referring to? ‘More hospitalisations in infants’
Many infants are admitted, particularly over the winter months, with infections like croup and bronchiolitis. Where is the evidence that having a baby in 2020 is dangerous, due to an increase in infant morbidity or mortality?

There have been very few infants who have tested positive for cv. This is not a reason for most, especially those who want a child, to stop ttc.

Ha. This reminds me of thread ages ago where a poster referred to young mothers today as "mindless breeders" and then turned out to have four children herself! But apparently that didn't count because they are now adults
Of course yabu op. If we all waited for the perfect time to have kids, the human race would have died out many hundreds of years ago. And as for the pp who said we didn't know about climate change 10 years ago - I remember learning about it over 20 years ago at secondary school. I can still remember the page in the science textbook that had graphs showing the rise in the Earth's temperature and photos of flooding and extreme weather as warnings of what was to come. If you didn't know about climate change 10 years ago it was wilful ignorance.

Actually, thinking about it, this could be quite a good time to have a baby, in some ways.

There is set to be a big drop in the numbers of kids being born in 2021-2022, so those kids who are born in those years will not only benefit from smaller class sizes, but will also find life less competitive. Easier to gain entrance to the sports team, the swimming squad, grammar/private schools that have an entrance test (should parents be so inclined), a high-ranking university, post-graduate jobs....

In countries influenced by the Chinese zodiac (China, Singapore, HK, Vietnam etc.), the numbers of babies born each year can fluctuate if the Zodiac animal is a particularly lucky or unlucky one---Year of the Horse is considered unlucky for girls, if I remember rightly, for example, so births go right down during that year. The research that has been done shows that children born in "unlucky" years appear to have, on average, slightly easier and happier lives than those born in "lucky" years.

Havent RTFT but ..

Theres nothing goady in those of us pregnant or ttc that we have still got jobs ? My own comment was that mines is secure( because, healthcare ) , we face a looming threat of redundancy for my partner . We will try and muster our way through, now with three kids.

I think people naturally feel the need to defend their position /rationalise their choices.

I think the comments about unknown impacts of covid 19 on a fetus are also pretty unhelpful. I don't think any one of us pregnant is not terrified of covid to a greater or lesser degree , I don't think it's an amazing time to be pregnant (I conceived 2 weeks before the Wuhan bat was a thing ) . My anxiety is fairly high. The schools are back here and I'm hoping my kids dont bring it in to my home as I am due in a fortnight. I think we all need to be sensitive to peoples situations and stop projecting left right and centre !

I’ve thought about this as I get married early next year and we want to start TTC after the wedding. I don’t even know if having a baby will be easy for me or impossible as I’ve never tried to get pregnant and I can’t put my life on hold forever- what if coronavirus never goes away?

I’m 30 and I have waited 5 years to have children and have focused on my career and buying a house so that I would be financially stable and able to go part time. I’m fortunate that coronavirus has only impacted us a bit and so I’ll be at the point where I am ready for children, I’ve already made quite big sacrifices in my career and chosen stability and time over further promotion and money.

I don’t think I’m being selfish by trying for a child. If I went off everyone else’s opinions then I would never have one.

I can understand why people are continuing to TTC but feel quite nervous about doing so at the moment so we are choosing to put it off for a bit. I would already be high risk for two separate issues, so would have lots of hospital appointments. DH is high risk for Covid so it just feels a bit terrifying for the time being. The economic situation doesn't put me off but health concerns do.