Friend driving us up the walls.

[Brot64]

Read a somewhat similar post here last night but cannot find it, so cannot contribute or ask what needs asking.

I have been bombarded with messages, text and emails, from a friend of ours since 6am this morning. I always wake up at 5am so the issue is not the time, more the messages. It's all covid related, conspiracy based articles, PDF's anti vaccine re:covid, how our society is being hijacked, how the world is being reset, how wearing masks is causing ill health particularly dental, the list is endless, followed by numerous messages. He also knows my mother, who use to be a virologist but is now a neuropathologist though not here , and has bombarded her with numerous emails some in which he has stated that the work she did and does is a hoax particularly in relation to virology (she wrote numerous published articles and he seems to be very interested in).

As she has not been responding he asked me to forward and discuss a report with her, we didn't actually discuss it but to calm him (I know, terrible) I did say we have and it's all the same conspiracy view. I have been responding so might have fuelled this, however I have clearly stated that I am not interested in reading anymore of the articles.

DH suggests it's time to call quits on the friendship. We have been friends since university, and all was well until covid and his recent separation. I have very much enjoyed our friendship but now I dread hearing from him. We cannot seem to speak about anything else aside from this. Am I being insensitive here? If you wouldn’t end the friendship, what approach would you take considering that simply telling him, we have different views and I wouldn’t be reading anymore of these articles doesn’t seem to have any effect on him?

Brot64 Is his ex wife ok? I think you have become his target because she is no longer available, but he seems to be working himself up into a frenzy against unreasonable people..
Please keep all of his messages and consider contacting the local police asap to express concerns for her safety and yours.

This global rise in conspiracy theories is going up due to social media availability 24/7. One you tube video and all these tinfoil hat wearing dweebs come out in droves. If mask wearing leads to diseases then explain to me how all those like me in healthcare aren't poisoned working in operating rooms and sterile procedures? I've worn masks since March and no issues harmful to me have happened

I have a friend who believes in these conspiracy theories- the difference is, she posts the odd FB post, doesn't go on about it, looks to see my response, doesn't personally email me (they are just general FB posts) and backs off if you aren't interested. So, she's normal about her conspiracies (some of which, such as this being a man-made virus/escaped from a lab, I am sympathetic to). This guy has got real problems and it's hard as a friend but you must protect you and your own family unless he's happy to get help.

People's mental health is taking a beating in lockdown.

Big fantasies which seem to make sense of these hard-to-handle times are comforting.

YouTube and social media actively push people down self-reinforcing rabbit holes at the best of times, and right now a lot of people have more time to spend on them and also spend less time doing more grounding things with a wider range of people.

There are sincere longterm conspiracy theorists actively making the most of Covid as their exciting new kick.

There are multiple bad actors actively pushing disinformation as a disruptive technique, because each sees it as beneficial to their own in-group or country to unmoor populations from their ability to assess information or trust their institutions.

All in all... it's not surprising there are so many of these threads about posters' friends and family losing themselves in conspiracy theories.

I honestly don't know what to do about it, particularly with someone like the OP's friend whose behaviour, rather than just beliefs, makes them appear really quite unwell.

But we're going to have to find a way to handle this, because long term the disinformation virus could be more damaging than Covid – as well as exacerbating the damage of Covid.

Yeah he’s not well.
If he contacts you in any other way, put it in writing that whilst you remain concerned about him, this repeated contact on one subject is now harassment and you will not hesitate to contact the police if it doesn’t stop.

And I would contact his parents and ex to say you’re concerned about him, but then leave it for them to decide what, I’d anything, to do.

I would check in on his ex and also send a message to any other close friends you know of just to see if he's the same with them. I'd also write everything down (amount of messages, content, emails to your mum etc) just in case anything escalates and rly need to call the police.

I’ve experienced this in the past from a family member and a friend more recently another friend. Unfortunately there is something that causes people in this mindset to continue to push against your boundaries no matter how firmly you state them. There’s a real messiah, need to “save” others complex going on. It’s worth remembering that they genuinely want to help you and see you as being at a real disadvantage for not having as much “knowledge” as they do. However it will also get heavily pushed that you are closed minded or fearful if you don’t accept their version of reality.

You have two choices in my experience. You can either continue to engage, in which case you need to present a story or narrative that is equally compelling (there’s no point in using a factual or rational approach to countering their arguments). Or you cut off contact, really I think it depends on the individual, how much the relationship means to you and if it is generally healthy/balanced/reciprocal with the exception of these behaviours.

It concerns me that this is becoming more usual to encounter people who are caught up in conspiracy thinking. And seems to be spread across such a wide range of topics/area.

Ex wife is okay. I did text her and asked if she's available for a brief chat as I have some concerns about friend. She's busy with their children and has said she will ring me after 5pm. He has not responded or contacted since the response from DH. My mother has reported the issue to her IT department. She's more concerned for us as we are closely located to him.

This is weird because at the beginning of lockdown, this same friend was extremely cautious, in fact we had been in Italy for the school holidays and he refused to meet up end feb or run with us because we had been in a high risk area. Then, he was respectfully informing me about what he thought were the right precautions to take without being forceful. I am amazed that he's gone from one extreme to the other. And I am confused about his behaviour. As I said he's never acted like this, at least not with me nor have I witnessed him being anything like this towards anyone.

Thanks all for your responses and advice. I will update once I speak to his Ex or if I hear from him.

Don’t get me wrong I love a good conspiracy as much as the next person, but and think it’s perfectly normal to question things and what we are told. But a lot of this stuff is dangerous and offensive. I had one on a local FB page really lose his shit with me and call me a ‘Karen’ because I gently mocked his belief that the government wanted to ‘muzzle’ us by telling us to wear face masks. Actually I may have posted a tin foil hat gif in response to one comment, not my finest hour but he was being an aggressive dick.

Sounds a bit like when my lovely brother had his first manic episode. He went from the most chilled out, thoughtful person to being totally inflexible and incapable of seeing past his warped beliefs about "the truth" and how it was affecting our mum. Such a huge change in personality and such a massive blindspot in a previously thoughtful person is very worrying. We were lucky in that my brother was already in the mental health system in that hed been seen by the crisis team previously. In this situation I really dont know what you will be able to do to help... perhaps a call to Mind as a starting point. If you want to that is, you have absolutely no obligation to get involved, no matter how long you've known him, especially as it seems he has completely lost all sense of boundaries.

I had a friend like this - note the use of the word 'had'!

I texted her back saying something like "Please stop sending me these texts, I am not interested and they just waste time and energy. I don't want to have to block you, but I will if this continues."

OK, I then went down one friend. I can't say I've missed her at all.

@Brot64

DH has just informed me that an email from him has just come into my work email. DH and I run a business together so he has access to emails and work phones.

The email reads, I think you are being very close minded, I am offended by your patronising assumption on my mental health.

How about a coffee this afternoon to discuss this issue further. Blocking someone who is trying to have a constructive conversation with you on a topic that is very current and that affects us directly is very juvenile Brot. What does (inserted DH's name) think about your limiting beliefs? Very disappointing reaction from both your mother and yourself. You are an educated woman, wake up. Let me know about coffee.

He really is a controlling arsehole isn't he? He is demanding you discuss this with him, demanding you let him beat you into submission and accept his point of view, demanding that your mother back up her research and conclusions to his standards or admit she is wrong and the standards of proof he requires will be like shifting sand.

There will be nothing remotely constructive about the conversation he purports to want, he is a zealot on this topic and nothing but complete conversion to the cause will be acceptable on your part. Like any idealogue difference to their view even when backed up by science and logic is heresy and heretics must be burned.

It's alarming for you that he has become like this and it does indicate a mental health problem possibly brought about by the break up of his marriage and the lockdown exacerbating or highlighting a loss of control over his life, or the way he saw his life, but that is not your problem to solve, you can't and walking away is your only and best option, however awful that may feel to you.

Hope he heeds your husband's reply.

Is everything else alright with him? My experience of receiving lots of almost spammy type messages from a friend has been when their mental health is deteriorating. Another friend got really taken up with an injustice he thought the world should be up in arms about and was abusive towards others who weren't as interested - he needed support for his mental health shortly afterwards as well.

Obviously you don't have to answer him and can have it out as much as you like, but if this is unusual behaviour from him it could be that he is struggling at the moment.

I can understand people wanting more answers about this virus and why it's so sinister compared to the usual viruses we have all had all our lives. Why is there a netflix program from 2018 acting out this virus in China?How can a market in China infect the whole world?

The BBC did it long before Netflix. Back in the 70s, there was a series called Survivors, about this exact situation. A virus from China gets spread around the world due to air travel. It killed a lot more people than Covid though, to the point that the infrastructure collapsed and the survivors ended up living like it was the medieval times again.

It's bound to be online somewhere, I recommend looking it up, it was very good.

I hope that he does heed DH reply and does not come to my door because I will have to call the police. He is in a profession that would be significantly affected by any police report. He would also have to answer to a professional body etc if it went any further. Hence although many have advice to contact the police, I am reluctant to do so and will only do this as a last resort.

He is in a profession that would be significantly affected by any police report. He would also have to answer to a professional body etc if it went any further. Hence although many have advice to contact the police, I am reluctant to do so and will only do this as a last resort.

You are not responsible for protecting his career or reputation. It's to the point where he needs to be reported.

@Brot64

I hope that he does heed DH reply and does not come to my door because I will have to call the police. He is in a profession that would be significantly affected by any police report. He would also have to answer to a professional body etc if it went any further. Hence although many have advice to contact the police, I am reluctant to do so and will only do this as a last resort.

As reluctant as you are to inform the Police you are right that if he turns up you will have to do so, but remember that it is him that has forced this issue, him that has put you in that position, the inevitable consequences will be due to his behaviour and disregard for your perfectly reasonable, polite requests for him to stop hassling you and your mother on this particular topic. You tried and tried and he just wouldn't listen or accept what you said, the fall-out if it happens is not your fault, you are not to blame, only one person is and that's him.

I hope it doesn't come to that but if it does don't beat yourself up about it Brot64, you did all you could kindly and respectfully, you acted in his best interests for as long as you could.

"germ theory is just a theory"

"So is gravity, so float the fuck off."

Has anyone asked the blindingly obvious question — why did his ex leave him?

I'd call her again, say this is urgent and can't wait and ask her about her ex's mental health. I once worked with a colleague who had a breakdown and I had a bi-polar friend who suffered manic highs. Your posts instantly reminded me of them. If your friend has had MH issues in the past his ex may have info — contact details of his MH support team, for example — that may make it easier to get him help.

Brot he is already harassing you, your mum and your husband, that will also have professional implications. I wouldn't hesitate to call the police not just for your safety but for his safety if it came to that, because he can then be assessed (ideally he would agree to go to A and E or get the crisis team in but that seems unlikely given his denial). Do what is best for YOU right now, don't try and protect him in a round-about way as if he continues this behaviour, or even turns up, it will get him into a lot of trouble.

It really sounds like he’s having a mental health crisis. Especially with his views having changed so radically and the persistent emails and contact. It doesn’t sound like his usual behaviour from what you’ve said and he sounds unwell. Can you seek advice from anywhere regarding how best to handle this situation and ensure he gets the support he needs. I hope everyone involved is ok.

Brot, if he is mentally ill, which seems a strong possibility, then his professional body will need to know in order to protect his clients/ the profession's reputation. They will take his illness into account should the police have to be involved. People wouldn't be punished for being ill.

If he isn't mentally ill he has left you (and possibly your mother) feeling under threat and scared he'll come to your door. So he needs reporting to the police before he can scare and threaten other people. And his professional body really does need to know what kind of man he is in order to protect his clients/ their reputation.

There is no good reason not to call the police for help if he continues to harass and frighten you. If he's mentally ill it may even be the best way to get him the help he needs.

Sounds like he could be having a psychotic episode. Fixation on one topic and lack of social awareness. I've seen it happen with a friend before unfortunately. If he's living alone following the break up that won't have helped.

Your mum was sensible not to reply and it's better that it's her work email as she'll presumably have back up/protection from her employers.

Do you have any friends in common who might have had similar conversations with him? Maybe you could contact a MH crisis team to intervene - if you feel that's appropriate and something you're willing to do, as it's not your responsibility of course.

Sorry this is happening. It's such a difficult time for us all.

You are not responsible for this guy's mental health, and his behaviour is affecting yours. It's not your fault that he is harassing you - this is his choice. He may be unwell, but that's not your doing either. Keeping his actions quiet from the police won't help him or protect him - he needs outside intervention if he's going to have any chance of improving.

You need to report the harassment to the police and block him.