To say if you don’t agree with the way schools are reopening de register your dc

[whenthejoyreturns]

I’m sick of reading about people moaning about school reopening, lack of social distancing etc. What do you want? DC off school for years and all the long term implications that will cause /is causing.
If you don’t like it, don’t send your dc but stop complaining.

That's what I am doing

@tabernacles I’m sorry but that’s just nonsense.

There are plenty of parents who could not home educate for a plethora of reasons. I’m not saying it’s only for wealthy people - you could have a low income and manage it, but that would depend entirely on your circumstances, your living costs, your benefit entitlement and so on. You have managed to overcome barriers to enable it - there are plenty who cannot, and you dismissively staying that everyone could if they wanted to is ridiculous.

I could not home educate my disabled children. I do not have the expertise needed to engage them in learning, or engage them in pretty much anything, despite going to great lengths to try. The last five months have been absolutely horrific for us without them being able to go nursery - they will be starting at a specialist school this year, a year before compulsory school age, because they need expert and therapeutic input we cannot provide ourselves if we opted to electively home educate. I did not say disabled children as a group cannot be home educated.

I have chronic health issues myself - I cannot take care of and educate my disabled twins 24/7. Hats off to those who can - I can’t.

Privilege does not necessarily mean having money. We have enough money, but we couldn’t do it. Failing to understand that it is not an option for everyone is absolutely a privilege.

@Sistery

Name all the schools where this has been an issue up until now? I'll take world news, doesn't have to be U.K. let's not forget schools never closed in Sweden and have since reopened in many countries across Europe.

Do you really not know how vastly different the school setup in Sweden is to what exists here (in terms of facilities, social behaviour, class sizes etc) and what is being proposed (in terms of Covid guidelines)? If you do, then you’ll know they’re in no way comparable. If you don’t, then you shouldn’t be expressing strong opinions. As for the rest of the world, most European schools have been off or had large sections off till now or very recently and no schools are going back with the kind of community infection rates and lax guidelines that we are.

There is no comparison. Even Scotland is in no way close to England on infection levels and guidelines, but will be hailed as a forerunner for our schools. Before we closed for summer, the outbreaks in schools were double the number in hospitals. But honestly I know that we are just going to sleepwalk into this and horribly screw it up the same way we’ve let the government sleepwalk us into every other shit decision since January. Not being able to homeschool doesn’t stop me seeing that.

One of the largest studies in the world on coronavirus in schools was carried out in 100 institutions in the UK. According to Professor Russel Viner, President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and a member of SAGE. “A new study that has been done in UK schools confirms there is very little evidence that the virus is transmitted in schools,”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pupils-pose-no-risk-of-spreading-covid-27q6zfd9l

epythymy

Do you have a share token or a link to to actual study?

@FrippEnos

epythymy

Their job, like every other sector in the U.K.

So don't teachers deserve the same allowances that other workers have?

Or are you an Us4Them shill

I am someone that believes that the right to an education for children is more important than "protecting" young, fit and well teachers from a virus which over 99% of people who catch it survive even when you account for the elderly and infirm who have multiple underlying conditions, yes. Call me crazy!

92% of those that have died are over 60. Perhaps teachers over 60 could be shielded? 91% of those that died had one or more comorbidities.

A minor point but wouldn't de-registering just reduce the school's funding and ultimately reduce a school's teaching workforce when too many do as you suggest, OP?

Still, let's hope the magic word 'bubble' if they're up to 250 in a year group bubble with significant crossover between bubbles of teachers and siblings will constrain a virus' infectivity. If not, it won't just be the pubs and businesses closing in England in the Autumn.

Marzipan- but Melbourne did more than just open schools. You implied that there is evidence that schools opening caused the rise in transmission of the virus. That is unlikely to be the case, as shown by the lack of evidence. We need to be careful but act in evidence not on our (often irrational) fears or indeed on be wary of complacency.

epythymy

Where did I call you crazy?

I asked if you were a shill.

Also any link or share token for the viner study?

yes, I think we should get on with it and anyone who wants to keep their DC home absent medical grounds should de-register if their school is oversubscribed
@dreamingbohemian are you saying that a parents of a child who is extremely clinically vulnerable should deregister if they are genuinely concerned about the return to school and might just want a week or two to see how it goes. I am thinking more secondary here rather than primary as bubbles are huge?
So than the pushy parents who can no longer afford a Private Education can have their place.

jacks11

Yet various studies have shown that teenagers spread the virus at the same rate as adults and that schools have played apart in community transmission, so there is evidence, its just evidence that various people ignore.

Much like the emerging evidence that although under 11 still have the virus they don't spread it as much as teenagers or adults.

@epythymy are you referring to primary or secondary schools?

Why are you studiously ignoring data about transmission in teens?

There is no UK data referring to secondary schools because their closure has made this impossible. We have to rely on data from countries where secondary schools have opened. Even then, extrapolation is difficult due to different community infection levels levels, safety measures, class size, mask wearing etc.

Evidence that has been published is concerning.

What we can say is that their is zero evidence, worldwide, to indicate that there will not be outbreaks associated with UK plans to reopen secondary schools to all pupils with current measures. What other country is adopting this blind faith, moral duty approach?

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Sweden close secondary schools?

The study is not published yet. There's a free article on the sun

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/12351366/schools-reopening-coronavirus-study-pupils/amp/

epythymy

That study cited in The Sun/Times is from schools in the U.K. up to the end of the summer term.

Can you see the issue with extrapolating any of its conclusions to when schools are fully open to all pupils?

(Clue: schools were shut to the majority of pupils and social distancing was therefore able to take place)

Northern if you read what I wrote, that's the opposite of what I'm saying

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Sweden close secondary schools?

Yes, they did.

Epythymy

Not everyone who thinks some of the concerns raised by teachers/those not wanting schools to return are “shills”. Some of us think it is perfectly doable, the risks to most teachers likely to be small, but the risk of not sending the children back causing significant harm are great.

As a frontline NHS worker, I am more than aware of the risks frontline workers take. Teachers are not at greater risk than many others who managed to keep working and will continue to do so. Many teachers were involved in the hubs where key worker children attended- I am not aware of any mass outbreaks where many children and teachers became very unwell or were hospitalised. Teachers are not special cases, but of course should have reasonable working conditions and appropriate safety procedures or equipment. I suppose the argument is what “ appropriate” is-as there is no “zero risk” situation unless you completely self-isolate.

There is an argument for additional protection/alternative conditions of service for older teachers or teachers who are in the high risk category due to health problems or disability, but they will be in the minority.

Teachers of younger primary aged children are at very little risk from their pupils and should be reassured by that. The risk they run is being infected by a colleague or parent. So measures to ensure social distancing between adults m, perhaps even mask use where adults are interacting indoors and so on.

Trickier first secondary schools- again wearing of masks in corridors and similar measures may be the way forward. Closing schools should be the measure of last resort.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30250-9/fulltext

This is a new study in the Lancet that is UK specific. Essentially a second wave might be prevented by robust testing and tracking and isolating. Part-time rotas may also help.

I agree jacks11

People are focusing exclusively on risk, the idea seems to be that unless risk is effectively zero, you can't reopen.

But as with anything, it should be a risk-benefit analysis. The benefits of reopening are enormous. How should we think about risks relative to this?

It seems increasingly likely that a risk-benefit analysis supports reopening primary schools with some adjustments. Secondary may be different.

I’m sick of reading about people moaning about school reopening, lack of social distancing etc. What do you want? DC off school for years and all the long term implications that will cause /is causing. If you don’t like it, don’t send your dc but stop complaining.

I truly wish I could see things as you do, and like most other posters happy for my children to return to school in September. But as my husband is in the now paused shielding group, I feel overwhelmed with anxiety over what to do. Four children in four different bubbles (of 150 plus) and school bus journeys - I just wish I could be more confident. And wish I knew what to decide to do as my niave and simplified decision seems to be husbands life v children's education.

@dreamingbohemian what you said was ambiguous so I was seeking clarification.
yes, I think we should get on with it and anyone who wants to keep their DC home absent medical grounds should de-register if their school is oversubscribed
So you you meant except on medical grounds
Not absent on medical grounds.

@epythymy - the Sun newspaper is not a good source of evidence . Yes it will do the TLDR but not in an objective way. It will cherry pick and tell you what to think rather than enabling you to think for yourself. And then when you repeat it, you will appear opinionated and bigoted and unable to see other perspectives because you have nothing else.

You don't have to read medical journals to widen your thinking. Just consider what other people have read and listen to real life experiences and other opinions.

Yes, absent meaning lacking. I guess commas would have helped :)

People are focusing exclusively on risk, the idea seems to be that unless risk is effectively zero, you can't reopen

I don’t think that’s what most people are saying.

The absolute worst case scenario for me and the secondary school children I teach will be a situation where we open fully and then have to close reactively/have year groups isolated/have not enough staff so we have lots of supply etc. The Covid Hokey Cokey, as described on another thread.

That will mean real disruption- as well as the potential for serious illness and death in the wider community.

I want to be able to teach, but I’d much rather plan blended curriculum for maybe term 1? See the children for some lessons, give them work for the rest/record resources for them. Have smaller groups and robust social distancing.

See how the numbers are looking, then either continue that way or fully open if infection rates are stable.

The headlong rush to full opening is likely to end in far worse disruption.

@epythymy

Again do you have a link to the viner study or a share token for the times

A paper that has TBH posted mainly negative things about teachers and schools since this started so hardly unbiased.

FYI, a simple no would suffice.

Fripp

It’s a study done in UK schools up until the end of the summer term. I.e. when they were shut to all but KW/yr10 or KW/R/1.