To think Sir David King may be right about another lockdown?

[Hamsteratemylunch]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/uk-heading-back-lockdown-next-22491159

Summary - track and trace a disaster, not safe to open schools, heading back into lockdown (possibly national ) very soon.

I always wonder when I see these pointless posts as no one knows what will happen really, are these posts written by people who liked lockdown and actually want another lockdown?

Why do you think Test and Trace isn’t working? They phoned friends of mine and were great they said.
Another friend refused to answer them, they rang him loads of times.
He’s an idiot, and should be arrested for putting people at risk.
I think they did a great job.

53% of voters think YABU to think Dk may be right. Does that mean half of those voting think they know better than the head of SAGE? Because I’d tend to think this guy knows a little more than me.

I think it’s Test and Trace not Track and Trace.
It’s only the Labour Party who say it isn’t working, trying to make political points.

I honestly don't understand why people are more bothered about their finances than they are people's lives.

No income since March. If this carries on a few more months we'll lose our house. It's so incredibly dismissive to say that worrying about this is selfishness, it would be very weird indeed not to worry about something this personally catastrophic.

The reality is that some sectors have been disproportionally affected, and that some people will lose careeers, homes, over a year's income.... it's asking too much, it really is.

It's not "only money" when you need it to live on and house yourself.

Yabu, where is the government going to find the money for another lockdown? Or will they just lockdown, no furlough and cut jobseeker allowance because that will be unaffordable with all the job losses from businesses going under?

Genuine bug bear of mine, how we knock things in this country

@Sistery

The Government is sending schools back with no social distancing or masks, no budget for increased cleaning or handwashing facilities, a nonsense about bubbles of hundreds and no acknowledgement that teachers will break these bubbles by teaching different year groups and kids will break the bubbles by going on the school bus, seeing family and friends and going to activities. Lockdown will inevitably follow, surely? How could it not?

Because if a lockdown is to have teeth, the state has to be willing to pay for lots of people to stay at home. If they won't do that, and neither UC nor SSP are it, those people will be going into work. So the question isn't whether a lockdown will be objectively required. It's whether the government are going to fund it.

Things is they all know more than us!

And they still don't all agree on what's happening and where we are going and how to make things better!

Hence why I don't always believe everything!

Track and trace will continue to improve. A vaccine will be found.

The sun will come out, tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow, there'll be sun! Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you, tomorrow, you're only a day away!

I fucking hated lockdown, but I do think we could end up back there - the government really is a mess.

The schools plan is the next care homes/stopping testing/no border quarantine imo.

@LightgreenBanana

I think it’s Test and Trace not Track and Trace. It’s only the Labour Party who say it isn’t working, trying to make political points.

Wow, you're very party political.

They are contacting very few people. That is just a statement of fact.

If only so much money hadn’t been wasted on crony get rich quick PPE procurement contracts handed out by Boris Johnson. £248 million on one unfit for purpose contract for face masks alone. £60 million has been spent on the furlough scheme, just to give some perspective.

I think if the govt hadn’t made such a mess of this, we’d be able to accommodate local hotspot lockdowns. I don’t see how we can avoid more catastrophe and loss to be honest.

@Mummyoflittledragon

53% of voters think YABU to think Dk may be right. Does that mean half of those voting think they know better than the head of SAGE? Because I’d tend to think this guy knows a little more than me.

He's not the head of SAGE, he's the head of Independent SAGE, which is a cleverly named but entirely unofficial grouping which has taken one very particular stance throughout.

I think one of the biggest public misconceptions is that there is 'the science' and therefore if we just know 'the science' we know what is right and what is wrong. Whether or not a second lockdown would be the right approach is not a question with a yes/no answer or where there is scientific consensus - it's also not solely a scientific question. No one scientist can possibly give 'the answer' on it.

I think we have three main problems:

1. The government messaging is confusing and very much "do as I say, and not as I do".
2. People think the rules dont apply to them and find it hard to change their behaviour.
3. Self employed / zero hour contracts mean that if workers take time off, they may not have enough money to support their household.

So, if come September, parents send their kids into school on a Monday after flying back from Spain on Sunday, we are in trouble.

If a pre schooler wakes up with a temperature, dad gives some him/her calpel and then sends them into nursery. Trouble again.

If your coworker comes into work with a cough just show everyone they are really sick, it could spread the virus.

People are going to have to change their behaviour and I just dont know if we are collectively capable of it. And the government need to do their bit too.

Indeed. But our Govt are following “The Science” Dominic Cummings is not a qualified scientist as far as I know, though.

if come September, parents send their kids into school on a Monday after flying back from Spain on Sunday, we are in trouble.

This is undoubtedly true, and will happen.

What pisses me off is the government are happy to leave this to happen (no quarantine checking) and leave us to be harmed by it (no distancing in school).

The reasonable majority are being left unsupported by the government.

With crime, we are supposed to protect our property to a reasonable extent, take insurance AND have police backup.

With covid the government is basically asking us to put our families in harm's way.

@frumpety

DS asked me this morning 'what happens if you get a normal cough ? ' I told him we would all need to isolate until we could be tested. But would his class need to isolate too ? I honestly don't know if what I have told him is true or not, but not looking forward to the winter season of normal coughs and colds.

No the class should only isolate on a positive test from your son.

I say should, as this is government guidelines for schools and eyfs. However some schools have said they will isolate the whole bubble until a negative test has been had. My childcare is following the government guidance that they only all self isolate after a positive test.

Let's be honest we don't know for sure but will know in october what effect schools have on R.

Test and trace has insufficient contact tracing to be effective; and this has been shown to be lower in more deprived areas. Some people have a kind of privilege in a sense; they will be paid for isolating and not have to rely on ssp or UC/ get nothing at all.

It does seem counter intuitive though that 2 household can't mix indoors in some areas as it is driving infection but a school is perfectly safe. I wonder if they will try and learn about transmission by testing everyone at a school when there's an outbreak . I suspect kids will be predominantly asymptomatic so don't normally get tested / infections missed.

I have little confidence in their it's safe platitudes. They said the same about care homes guidance then blamed it on the workers. If it proves the same at schools they'll blame in on the schools.

Why doesn't the government look at some innovative ideas and some joined up thinking. Fund laptops for older kids , thereby less time in risky situations. Fund outdoor learning spaces. My local school has turned the field into outdoor learning spaces with basically wood and taurpalin.
Fast track DBS checks, and take on more assistants working outdoors with smaller groups.

We pay the price now for years of neglect and stupid public school style curriculum.

David King comes across as someone bitter that they are no longer in the position that they were - I suspect whatever the gov and SAGE did/said his "unoffical sage" would say something different.

I think Sir David King is right about track and trace, even on the government's figures. My opinion is that pubs should be closed- social distancing is not happening in sunny weather with outdoor space, less chance when it is colder in the evenings.

@Pittapitta

I always wonder when I see these pointless posts as no one knows what will happen really, are these posts written by people who liked lockdown and actually want another lockdown?

I really don’t understand why it’s pointless to discuss the future? Particularly a future that can be changed by individual actions and government policy?

What I find pointless personally is those who would prefer to ignore everything and accuse others of ‘doom and gloom’ or - ha!- wanting another lockdown, just because they dare to question current policy and practice.

Why do you think Test and Trace isn’t working?

They can only get through to about 75% of people apparently. Some won't call back or answer the phone while others give phony numbers.

This is ridiculous. It’s time to live with this virus