To think Sir David King may be right about another lockdown?

[Hamsteratemylunch]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/uk-heading-back-lockdown-next-22491159

Summary - track and trace a disaster, not safe to open schools, heading back into lockdown (possibly national ) very soon.

[NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite]

We can't afford another national lockdown. The furlough scheme has to end (I'd argue it has been too generous as it is ). We need to do what we can to prevent transmission of the virus. Back to work with mandatory, enforced correctly worn, masks everywhere including indoors in the work environment. At least KN95/FFP2 level and stop all the useless scarf and face covering crap including face shields. Sadly, those who are declared exempt from mask-wearing by an NHS doctor are the only ones who need to stay in lockdown in order to protect the rest of us.

When the vaccine is available those who are exempt from mask-wearing get it first.

[lljkk]

Even people up to their elbows in biology degrees still don't know what the long term effects of this virus will be.

Nope, they don't. But they may be more used to balancing risks than average person, wrt pathogens. I suppose saying my expertise will put me in the equally ignorant category according to PP. I'm the person without a biology degree but I have a high tolerance for risk. I get called "a moron" on MN for that. Not Nice. It seems like proclaiming that you're very very afraid makes you right in public policy and anyone else is "a moron". Emotion trumps logic or even an actual conversation about what level of risk is safe to live with. UK is not having that conversation. Instead the fearful win by default. Usually it's the angry who win by default. I actually think fear is a slight improvement, but it's still a situation I despair of. Too little talk about the actual risk trade offs and too much encouragement to identify good/bad tribes. Oh well...

[Morfin]

@FrippEnos

Rainbow12e

Yes, that was published but has since been rescinded.

And this is the problem. Promising what is needed and quietly removing it.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

We couldn't use them, and can't in future, because there are insufficient trained nurses.

Royal Society of Medicine has an an excellent run of seminars on COVID19. One of the topics was how to cope with the NHS backlog and rebuild a health service. The surgeons and others were completely sensible about their 5 year plan which involves delegating a lot of stuff to other people, increasing their skills on that level, while they delegate some of their previous duties to the level below them and so on.

The NHS could upskill a huge number of people and create a workforce that is properly resourced to deal with our new reality.

As ever, there's no lack of work to be done, or increased opportunities for education, there's a lack of vision to pay for the work to be done.

[MinnieMousse]

The children's commissioner said there should be weekly testing, which was published in the news, but the government said they would continue to only test people with symptoms.

[FrippEnos]

Rainbow12e

Yes, that was published but has since been rescinded.

[MinnieMousse]

@FrippEnos

Rainbow12e

didn't Nick Gibb say that there would be no regular teasing in schools?

Yep.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/09/ministers-reject-call-for-weekly-covid-19-testing-in-english-schools

[FrippEnos]

Rainbow12e

didn't Nick Gibb say that there would be no regular teasing in schools?

[KatherineJaneway]

[quote LakieLady]@IceCreamSummer20, how is the 14-day isolation on returning from abroad being monitored/enforced?

I've heard of at least 4 families/groups who've come back from Spain and simply not bothered.[/quote]
But there will albe a percentage that don't comply. Like people not giving venues their real phone number.

[Pixxie7]

I think we perhaps should, but don’t think it will happen nationally.

[kittensarecute]

I fear I won't cope if we have another national lockdown. Praying hard that we won't.

[stopgap]

I’m in the USA, in one of the best performing states (Connecticut). Masks are absolutely mandatory here indoors, and a majority wear them outside when walking in busy areas.

Our schools are due to open September 1st. We know already that middle and high schools will follow a hybrid model at best, and is likely to be fully remote.

For elementary:

Children will wear masks.
They will stay with the same twelve children all day.
Music will be outside until the weather dictates otherwise.
Masks can come off at recess, and kids have to stick to the same cohort.
Our elementary schools are having their ventilation systems upgraded.
There will be washing and sanitizing stations placed throughout the corridors.

Even with these measures, I suspect we will get a month or two max before cases rise and we revert to a remote model.

[MiddlesexGirl]

I agree that schools may struggle to retain and recruit teachers and the quality of teaching may therefore fall.
However, the damage to children through missing so much school is far more than just educational and it is therefore imperative that all schools open to all pupils in September. Fortunately the government do seem to recognise this which is why I am confident that there will be only very localised school or year group closures.

[HeIenaDove]

Channel 4 news did some pieces on care workers living in cramped shared dwellings and having to share kitchens with several other families.

Channel 4 news did a huge segment on care workers. And how they are under paid , under valued, classed as low skilled and why they cant socially distance due to the appalling places some of them live in.

Bookmark
Add message | Report | Message posterHeIenaDove Thu 14-May-20 19:14:10
A care worker interviewed lives in one room with her son and they share bathroom and kitchen facilities with ten other families
Hardly an ideal living situation to cook healthy meals

A care worker was ill with Covid for 28 days and was brought a hot meal every day by Hare Krishna She has to walk an hour to get to work and same to get home because she cant afford public transport

//www.channel4.com/news/charities-demand-care-home-workers-are-paid-a-living-wage

//www.channel4.com/news/charities-demand-care-home-workers-are-paid-a-living-wage

Then on another date they interviewed another zero hours care worker in poor housing.
//www.channel4.com/news/nearly-a-third-of-people-have-suffered-health-problems-during-lockdown-because-of-poor-housing

[IceCreamSummer20]

I want schools to open. I also want better guidelines for schools that take into account ventilation.

I’m sure you are right @MiddlesexGirl there won’t be huge numbers of teachers off. However there will probably be small clusters, and areas will rise in areas not because of schools, but will mean that many things will close again for a while and schools may sometimes be one of them.

However there is another part of this. My DSs teacher is already saying that she will be taking a career break - pretty devastating for us as DS has SN and the new teacher had to be found quickly and is not very qualified. I think some assistants may well not come back either. Combined with pressure on social distancing measures - I think my DS is not going to get a great education next year.

[MiddlesexGirl]

There is no chance that schools won't open and there won't be huge numbers of teaches absent due to getting coronavirus.

[IceCreamSummer20]

@CoffeeandCroissant I know I don’t quite understand this either. The ECDC report on schools also cites Israel but concludes no child transmission - and I’m not sure why as I read the study and it seemed fairly clear that there was cross transmission between pupils and staff. No one seems to have unpicked this - it does seem overall lower risk than many other indoor activities like gyms and similar risk to others - we just don’t know well enough yet.

[IceCreamSummer20]

@Amelietaylor thanks that is interesting.

[AmelieTaylor]

@IceCreamSummer20

Yes NZ quarantine is enforced. In hotels. Currently there's no tourists, only (thousands) of returning NZers!

At this stage the bill is picked up by the Govt, but is soon to be user pays.

They're very well looked after.

They're looking at some 'travel corridors' as some of the islands up there haven't had any cases. They had been considering Aus, but thankfully hadn't got too far setting that up.

[CoffeeandCroissant]

But there are no cases of children infecting teachers, even in countries where the schools remained open. There are barely cases of children passing it to adults. That fact doesnt change whether you have 15 kids in a class or 30.


"Study of a #COVID19 cluster associated with a high school in Israel. Over 260 people were infected, of which 153 were students (attack rate: 13.2%) and 25 were staff (AR: 16.6%). Demonstrates potential for mass transmission in the school setting."
mobile.twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1286332165559484416

Over the following days, almost all students and staff were tested, and 153 of 1,161 students (13.2%) and 25 of 151 staff (16.6%) tested positive. A further 87 cases were detected among the contacts of staff and students.

Taken from this thread on children and #COVID19, summarising the latest research:
mobile.twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1286985284102443008

[llarreggub]

One of the reasons I favour shutting down pubs is not just the lack of social distancing, but that it is a measure that will actually get enforced. Almost all the others that will reduce the spread including 14 day quarantine rely on voluntary compliance. Indeed the only other one seems to be working from home, which should in my opinion be allowed for anyone who has managed so far over the last five months.

[IceCreamSummer20]

[quote LakieLady]@IceCreamSummer20, how is the 14-day isolation on returning from abroad being monitored/enforced?

I've heard of at least 4 families/groups who've come back from Spain and simply not bothered.[/quote]
Without random checks and / or enforcement there will be some people who flout it. However most will not thankfully so overall it will reduce the rate. It depends how much we want to be near zero cases I guess - don’t they enforce quarantine in New Zealand? Arguably easier with fewer in flights. I know in Ireland there that it is self quarantine - and you have to give an address and number at the airport to the police. There are random checks and if you are not found to be quarantining you can be fined or imprisoned.

[Lifeisgenerallyfun]

I’m assuming things will keep ebbing and flowing until this thing disappears, local lock downs, pubs etc opening and closing, schools open/closed either on a national/local/school by school basis. Offices. Opening and closing, socialising ok then not ok. The only certainty in all of this is things will keep changing. Most countries will level out re infections and deaths, I think those countries with higher upfront deaths will fair better over winter. The govt will keep putting its toe in the water then quickly remove it if needed. The scientific advice will change as new phenomena is observed. The government need to balance the economy and the nhs. It’s going to be a constant rebalancing.

We need to star to really get used to uncertainty and change.