To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

@Ticklemelmo

I selected yanbu because I'm in the same boat as friend number 2 and find it very upsetting to.hear 'breast is best'. I couldn't even get past a week due to issues, I was medically advised to stop trying. Although as soon as I'd left my full week in the hospital I was left and my upset was ignored. That's another story though.

Anyway my issue isn't with celebrating it, go ahead, i am genuinely happy for those who can breastfeed. But what upsets me is the tone that often comes from those who do. The attitude that formula fed are failures or lazy or just 'didnt try hard enough'.

This is a hugely important point; so many new Mothers are failed by a lack of time and support when they do try, then made to feel shite about themselves by those who found breastfeeding a success.

I have a close friend who had a DD around 7 months after I had DS2. She phoned me a couple of weeks after her DD was born, crying and telling me how awful everything was because the baby was up every hour on the hour breastfeeding and her MW earlier that day had suggested putting her DD onto formula - something she'd hoped to avoid. Her DH was away with work and she was absolutely exhausted. Instead of posting a photo on facebook of me breastfeeding DS, I went over there, made her supper, ran her a warm bath, held her baby while she rested, made her a cuppa and sat as she tried an hour later to feed her DD when she was calm. I spent that night at her house and when her DD wasn't feeding I took her downstairs so my friend could sleep. One night wasn't a miracle cure, it didn't fix her world but surely that's what we ought to aim for; a culture where women can phone up women who've done it and ask for advice and support? She breastfed her DD til she was 12 months, and I like to think I played a little part in that simply by helping her at a time when she believed that her only option was to choose formula.

If we judge other women's choices around how they feed their DC, we are not supporting their journey, we don't give a shit about them and we are not improving breastfeeding rates. We need to support new Mothers more, we need more education for new Mothers on how to try and make it work for them and we need friends we can phone up and cry to.

Great post, @FudgeBrownie2019

I agree wholeheartedly.

We do not support other women by calling them “shitty friends” when we don’t know them from Adam, or by implying it would be a good thing if they died, to name a couple of examples on this thread.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

I've said everything I want and need to say to you on this thread. I suggest you find other fulfillment as well as just telling your breastfeeding story (and then kicking off when not everyone is full of admiration).

@Piglet89 I spotted that one a moment ago and thought the poster must be having a particularly shite week to post something like that.

Agree wholeheartedly - using our knowledge positively to empower and support other women doesn't come from snide or judgemental comments on a forum.

@FudgeBrownie2019 you’re an amazing friend!

we ought to aim for; a culture where women can phone up women who've done it and ask for advice and support

I agree that as a society we need a cultural and structural shifts for
people to get more support and community. You sound like a lovely friend.

It would be weird if I turned such a nice story around to be about me and say I feel shite for not having anything like that when my kids were small. Many women don't and the online communities might be all the advice, support, and community that's accessible.

The same is true with feeding a baby (or having a baby at all). Yes, some people are dicks about it, but most who are sharing their stories , even when going breast is best, aren't trying to make people feel shite, they're just sharing their experiences as one modern way of connecting to others when we're somehow more connected and isolated than ever. It can be hard to see that during a sensitive time, but everyone has it shite in our judgemental society where formula feeders are called lazy and self-centred while breastfeeders get told we're disgusting and that we only do it or discuss it for our own sexual gratification.

@FudgeBrownie2019

Great story & power to you for being such a good friend. That is what women need.

Seeing a smug Facebook post may well have tipped your friend over the edge.

I've said everything I want and need to say to you on this thread. I suggest you find other fulfillment as well as just telling your breastfeeding story (and then kicking off when not everyone is full of admiration

There you go again, making things up. What a weird thing to do. When have I kicked off because "not everyone is full of admiration"?
I think you want me to be that kind of person, but I'm not, in simply stating that women should be allowed to shout about their experiences.

We do not support other women by calling them “shitty friends” when we don’t know them from Adam

You said, unprompted and unasked, that you'd think your friends were "attention-seeking notice-boxers" if they posted on social media a breastfeeding picture. Sounds like a shitty friend to me.

@GlummyMcGlummerson you’re starting to come across as a bit unhinged, to be honest with you, repeating empty insults at me over and over again when, as I have explained, you do not know me or what kind of kind things I may have done to support friends, both with and without children. Point is, I don’t know you either, so I really don’t care they much what you say about me.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

in simply stating that women should be allowed to shout about their experiences.

They are allowed unless some law has been passed forbidding it?

It just when they do tell it, they cant expect everyone to be full of praise and admiration. As I said, most people roll their eyes and find it pompous or boring.

This bickering is the exact issue, if people were supportive of understanding why people felt uncomfortable on BOTH sides then we could move forward; ie I feel uncomfortable feeling like I cannot share what I perceive as a huge achievement and then the flip side of it makes me feel x or y, both are equally important and valid things to feel strongly about. Saying to someone to GeT oVeR iT without suggesting a way that we can all try and push for positive change to increase BF rates but also support others is not progressing the conversation at all, but just widening the divide and making being open about things even harder.

@Piglet89 is there a reason you haven't answered my question about if you'd think it was attention seeking to post a picture of a bottle fed baby?

I suspect you wouldn't think so.

Because internalised misogyny is so inherently prevalent and we don't even notice it. It's the same reason people don't like duck face selfies or women showing off their bodies - we've been socialised to hate it when women talk about their bodies in a positive way. It's scary that people can't see it.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@GlummyMcGlummerson

in simply stating that women should be allowed to shout about their experiences.

They are allowed unless some law has been passed forbidding it?

It just when they do tell it, they cant expect everyone to be full of praise and admiration. As I said, most people roll their eyes and find it pompous or boring.[/quote]
You don't speak for "everyone".

I enjoy reading about people's feeding journeys. Many people do.

And it may not be against the law to talk about it (love the obtuse comment BTW), people like you batting people down and telling them to STFU does as much damage as you intend it to.

I don't know why you are so convinced that it's wrapped up in misogyny, although no doubt that does affect the numbers of women who BF and is an issue in that regard. But do you think the women who do get upset by it are all misogynistic, or perhaps is there more to it than that? Have you ever actually asked someone respectfully as to why they don't like seeing images and posts about people's breastfeeding journeys on social media, without telling them it's their problem and they need to get over it?

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Feeding journey 🙄🤢 cringe.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Seriously please go and get a hobby. Bye.

@GlummyMcGlummerson I really don’t see, given how you have repeatedly insulted me on this thread, why I should answer your insistent and really almost deranged demands for an answer to that question, but here we go.

I would not think it was as attention-seeking to post a formula feeding picture, no. It is not a matter of remark for mothers to formula feed. In addition, I consider my breasts a private part of my anatomy and so does society (for example, it would be considered unusual behaviour for a woman to walk the streets bare-breasted). I consider it unnecessary (and therefore really quite attention-seeking) for someone to post a picture breastfeeding on a social media site, yes.

I do not consider it attention seeking to breast feed in public. This is often necessary for mother and child and society should wholeheartedly accept it. It’s the unnecessary factor with the social media posts with which I take issue.

But do you think the women who do get upset by it are all misogynistic

Women (or men) who get upset by other women talking or posting about breastfeeding definitely are acting on internalised misogyny. It's not their fault we can't help how we're socialised, it a bit of critical thinking would come in handy.

I'm sure people have their other reasons for not liking other people's breastfeeding picture but yes it IS for them to deal with, the onus isn't on the woman breastfeeding to sort that problem.

@Wolfgirrl are you 12 years old? "Cringe" is the best you can do.
I suggest you stop worrying about what people post on social media (especially when you're not even ON social media) and worry about something that matters. Like why women have so little support - not just with feeding and after giving birth in all aspects of healthcare.

@GlummyMcGlummerson I’m not “upset” by it.

I unapologetically make a judgment based upon the action. No amount of your screaming and shouting and stamping your feet is going to change that.

I also absolutely disagree that it’s misogyny. That’s utter claptrap.

I would not think it was as attention-seeking to post a formula feeding picture, no.

So, you'd find it attention seeking if someone posted a breastfeeding picture, but not a formula feeding picture.

Two women doing the same thing - feeding their baby. So what's the problem with the breastfeeding one? Ask yourself why you'd be unimpressed with this - because she's using her body and not a bottle? Probably is. Ask yourself why you feel like that. And ask yourself how you can seriously claim you support all women feeding when you literally think one should be hidden away and the other not.

@GlummyMcGlummerson then you're being extremely narrow minded and ignorant if you believe those who are upset by it are doing so just because they are misogynists. Honestly, have a word with yourself, and maybe grab some empathy whilst you are there. Your attitude does nothing to help increase BFing rates or attitudes towards it. And no, the onus isn't in the individual woman to deal with, but as you really want society to change to make BFing more accepted, you don't seem to think anyone should be a part of that change.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

I find it really bloody odd that women have to essentially STFU about breastfeeding and the efforts they've gone to and hurdles they've overcome because it makes other women feel bad.

If you feel bad for not cracking breastfeeding then you need to deal with it yourself rather than trying to silence discussions and celebrations around breastfeeding

@GlummyMcGlummerson so you don't want to be told to STFU about your breastfeeding journey but you're happy to tell bottle feeders to STFU about theirs. What's the difference?

If you're pro-breastfeeding, great, be pro-breastfeeding and love that shit to the ends of the earth - I know I do. However, you can't expect people to celebrate your choices if you won't celebrate the choices of others.

People REALLY think that disparaging views on breastfeeding - namely that it should be hidden away - have nothing to do with misogyny?! Come on! You can't be serious

@GlummyMcGlummerson I explained it all perfectly eloquently and coherently in my previous post. Not my problem you’re not reading my posts properly (presumably because you’re so emotionally invested in the topic, you’re struggling to see reason).

GlummyMcGlummerson so you don't want to be told to STFU about your breastfeeding journey but you're happy to tell bottle feeders to STFU about theirs. What's the difference

I haven't said formula feeders should STFU. They should stop silencing breastfeeders who are proud of their achievement though - that isn't the same as telling them to STFU