To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

[quote Piglet89]@GlummyMcGlummerson I explained it all perfectly eloquently and coherently in my previous post. Not my problem you’re not reading my posts properly (presumably because you’re so emotionally invested in the topic, you’re struggling to see reason).[/quote]
You haven't though - your "reason" didn't even make sense. Because EVERY post on social media is attention seeking in some way yet breastfeeding is "more" attention seeking than others?

Also @GlummyMcGlummerson, if you're actually interested, Why Breastfeeding Grief and Trauma Matters by Amy Brown.

People REALLY think that disparaging views on breastfeeding - namely that it should be hidden away - have nothing to do with misogyny?! Come on! You can't be serious

Of course some is, but to many mothers that is not the reason, and if you can't see that, even though you haven't experienced it yourself then that's quite sad. The above book might enlighten you, and yes before you have a wobble it is very pro breastfeeding, and how to push forward actual change that considers all women.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

GlummyMcGlummerson so you don't want to be told to STFU about your breastfeeding journey but you're happy to tell bottle feeders to STFU about theirs. What's the difference

I haven't said formula feeders should STFU. They should stop silencing breastfeeders who are proud of their achievement though - that isn't the same as telling them to STFU

You did, however, state that women who didn't crack breastfeeding should "deal with it themselves" in a previous post. What's that if not another way of saying "STFU"? Pop that faux-confused face at the end of your posts all you like - your meaning was entirely clear.

You can't claim to care about the journey of ALL women unless you are capable of showing compassion to ALL women. You can't claim to care about bringing breastfeeding rates up unless you are capable to showing kindness to women who for one reason or another found it a challenge and chose a different route. Your words don't match when you're dismissive of other women's experiences in the way you were.

I would not think it was as attention-seeking to post a formula feeding picture, no.

Believing that a woman feeding her child in a biologically normal way, using body parts as they were intended to be used, is ‘attention seeking’ when feeding a child formula is not is obviously driven by an internalisation of misogynistic attitudes.

Equally, there is a lot more to it than simply that.

Trying to unpick all the various assumptions, associations, judgements at play here is useful if we’re going to make progress in mothers being comfortable in their choices.

Considering how many mums think it’s not important, not convenient or too hard, and how many people judge you if you do it in public or see it as something ewww or yucky, I think it’s great to celebrate it. Not celebrating it because some mothers can’t would be like saying there shouldn’t be Mother’s Day (or Father’s Day) as some people can’t have children??!? On the other hand, no one should feel or be made to feel guilt or disappointment over not breastfeeding, for whatever reason. There is an element of luck in it, from an easy delivery, body and baby doing what they are meant to do, to good support before and after birth. It’s not a competition though, no one gets a medal and it doesn’t make anyone a better parent if they do. I couldn’t fully breastfeed and we tried so, so, so very hard - it was heartbreaking and it took me months to come to terms with it. At the end of the day, breast is great but fed is best. I think both your friends are wrong - the not-breastfeeding one is being oversensitive and should cut herself some slack; the breastfeeding one is insensitive to plaster self-congratulatory breastfeeding propaganda bullshit on social media if one of her closest friends struggles

Yes it is indeed more attention-seeking because -as previously explained - it involves unnecessarily broadcasting what I consider to be a private part of a woman’s anatomy publicly. Unnecessarily is the key word here.

Different from breastfeeding in public where one cannot help exposing the breast (and even then, many women agree with me and prefer to protect their privacy by feeding using a shawl or covering). I don’t think that’s at all necessary, incidentally, and they should feel free to feed whatever way they feel comfortable.

It’s the broadcasting over social media which I think’s unnecessary.

Yes it is indeed more attention-seeking because -as previously explained - it involves unnecessarily broadcasting what I consider to be a private part of a woman’s anatomy publicly. Unnecessarily is the key word here.

You only think that because you’ve been conditioned to see breasts as being for sex, rather than their primary purpose which is feeding.

A classic example of internalising misogynistic attitudes.

Considering how many mums think it’s not important, not convenient or too hard, and how many people judge you if you do it in public or see it as something ewww or yucky, I think it’s great to celebrate it.

Many don’t think it’s too hard; it’s not just a perception they’ve picked up from somewhere.

Their direct experience is that it was too hard. And no amount of self-congratulatory “my BF journey” posts on social media will change that one jot.

Two things that are much more likely to change it (non-exhaustive list):

Excellent, hands-on, physical and emotional support, early on, from midwives and other BF mothers in the form of La Leche league and so on; and
Early and correct diagnosis of tongue-tie.

@LaurieMarlow that’s not correct. I can consider a matter private not because of any sexual connotation. I want to keep my address and telephone number private and do many others; that’s not a sexual matter.

I think it depends. People dont generally take a photo of themselves bottle feeding a baby to make a point about their bottle feeding, or write an emotional post about what an amazing mother they are. Whereas with breastfeeding it is always to make a point. I dont want to see my colleague's or acquaintance's boobs. I just don't. In the same way I dont want to see men walking around with their jeans halfway down their arse. I just don't.

I can consider a matter private not because of any sexual connotation.

You can, but that’s irrelevant to anyone else. What if I say I consider arms private, therefore bottle feeding pics are attention seeking. Ridiculous, huh?

Breasts are doing their job of feeding the baby, just as arms are doing their job of holding bottles, which are feeding the baby. Body parts, doing what they’re supposed to do.

Plenty of pictures of women with lowish cut tops on SM anyway. Doesn’t attract much outrage when there’s no baby attached, interestingly.

Whereas with breastfeeding it is always to make a point.

Much of that will be in your head.

@LaurieMarlow

Or what they write in a gushing post...

In terms of misogyny re infant feeding, it has to be considered in the context of all women, not just those who breastfeed. So it isn’t misogyny to want those breastfeeding to exercise some sensitivity in their discussions (asking them to shut up about it would be different). I think it’s pretty misogynistic to say it’s fine to make formula feeding women feel shit about themselves, their parenting, and their bodies so that people can gloat about how they breastfed and did better for their babies. Saying “yeah well those women need to deal with that” isn’t right or fair, and it’s never men who feel bad about not breastfeeding. Only women, and those women should be considered too.

It comes down to exactly what is being said about breastfeeding. I see the logic in the comparison with Mother’s Day, but while no one expects people not to celebrate it for the sake of those whose mother has passed away, equally no one would think it ok to post about your mother in comparison to someone else’s situation. And that’s the issue with breast is best - it’s the direct comparison.

Yes: I can. And I can express my opinion about it on this forum. There is just absolutely no need for it and as @Wolfgirrl says, it’s nearly always to make a point about what a brilliant mother the person is.

Smug, attention-seeking, unnecessary.

@LaurieMarlow much of that will be in your head

That is so patronising.

Smug, attention-seeking, unnecessary.

This really says a lot about you. But I can sense a lot of issues that you clearly aren’t going to get to the bottom of on this thread.

it’s nearly always to make a point about what a brilliant mother the person is.

I don't agree with this at all, sure for some women, but they're the ones generally posting about how awesome their life is anyway and are equally annoying whatever they post. But many post the photo because it's beautiful, they are proud, or because it's just a part of their life and no big deal. It is a shame that many take great offense to breasts still, as I do believe that many women do struggle emotionally at seeing these posts; but they're never heard or taken seriously because the overriding comments are usually ew boobs or whatever which leads to the well everyone is just a misogynist. Shame.

Another misogynistic tactic is to say all womens' opinions are related to their 'issues'. Like they cant just have an opinion because they can, they must be stemming from some hysterical outpouring of trauma... because they're a woman...

I’m afraid, @LaurieMarlow I have had that said to me before by the unrestrained breastfeeding proponents on Mumsnet. I assure you, I have no issues and I consider you last post, effectively, a form of gaslighting.

it’s fine to make formula feeding women feel shit about themselves, their parenting, and their bodies so that people can gloat about how they breastfed and did better for their babies

Who’s saying that though? If anyone is comparing themselves directly to FFing mothers to make that point, that’s appalling.

A lot of interesting arguments on this thread (and plenty of misogyny, as always on bf threads).

I think in the UK we need a hell of a lot better support for breast-feeding, until it becomes the normal thing to do - as FF is massively prevalent, it is very easy to either give up bf early on (and itsv hard to go back to it) or never try. In countries where bf is the norm, the vast majority of women bf successfully. In parts of the UK, the majority of women bf, because it's normalised and talked about and there's more support available (typically middle class areas).

People will do what they see as normal. If most people around you do it, you're more likely to follow suit.

Yes, there are tons of early problems with bf, most people struggle at first, but with enough support they get past that. Otherwise there wouldn't be places where almost everyone bf.

It's world breastfeeding week - every other week in the UK is formula week, because most babies here are FF. Let's allow people to celebrate breastfeeding without all the jealousy and negativity. As a PP said, we don't all leap down the throat of marathon runners for celebrating their achievement because we're cross we can't run one.

As I said in my previous post, I never posted my pictures to make a point, unless wanting to connect with others, share my experience, and feel a bit more human is making a point.

I don't like to see people drinking alcohol or smoking, some people are assholes about my choice not to drink or smoke, but it doesn't mean that people who post pictures of it are always making a point and neither are my photos that happen to include water making a point at them.

Another misogynistic tactic is to say all womens' opinions are related to their 'issues'.

Well if ppl react so emotionally to a body part doing what it was designed to do, something is going on.