To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

I find it sad that women don’t want to try

@Purpletigers - you find it sad? Say Rachel in Milton Keynes, whom you've never met and never will meet, has had a baby and is formula feeding either because she can't or doesn't want to breastfeed. That actually makes you sad? It doesn't concern you in the slightest. It just sums people like you up. Rather than think, oh wonderful, a new baby, congratulations, you'd rather find sadness in the fact that the baby will be fed formula. Your later comments, while remaining judgemental, don't really marry up with your previous comments.

Please don’t waste your energy being sad for my girls. I can assure you they haven’t been negatively affected by my decision in the slightest.

How do you know? They might have been smarter, less likely to develop certain cancers in later life, less likely to be overweight or have allergies. Unless your girls are 80 years old you just don't know.

@Piglet89

Yup.

I live in a middle class area, and there’s a good bit of BF support out there - but still not enough. I threw in the towel after a week.

And if I ever had another, I would ensure they got colostrum but would not go beyond that. I would just disconnect from the whole thing and FF from the start because very aggressive BF proponents have made the activity of BF for me very stressful and fraught. Better just to opt out.

Who has been aggressive to you re bf? If that's local support services you should report to PALS if they're paid by the NHS. Being aggressive about a woman's choice is awful.

What might have helped you get past the first week in terms of support? It'd be good if we can work out what's missing from bf support so we can look to provide it.

Why would someone be sad or concerned that another mother had decided to use formula? It’s nothing to do with anyone else. We should aim for healthy and happy babies and parents whether that be formula or breast. Which is irrelevant to anyone other than the parents.

I’m so glad Mn wasn’t around when I had my DC’s. I never felt guilty using formula from day one but would have hated to hear the comments about my choices from those who thought they knew better.

Why would someone be sad or concerned that another mother had decided to use formula?

If that mother had wanted to bf but didn't because she felt unsupported or overwhelmed then yes, that is sad. Most mothers start out wanting to bf, because it's better for their baby than formula. The reason so many quit is often down to a lack of support, which society needs to address. Just look at all the comments on this thread berating women for daring to flash a nipple, or for being proud of struggling through the initial first weeks/months when bf is hardest and it's easier to throw in the towel.

If mothers want to bf, the support should be available. However health care professionals and others mothers need to accept that some of us don’t want to bf or want to stop after a day/week/month.

Anyone I know who gave up after a few months did so because they couldn’t be bothered to continue . It was about them and not about what was best for the child
What's best for the child is a mother who isn't broken and resentful cos she hates bf so much, feels like a literal cow or it's so painful they cry every feed.

I find it sad that women don’t want to try
Why? What's sad about a woman making a choice that's best for her and how she feels?
I didn't last 24 hours when dd was born. The few times I tried I hated it. Felt like a cow. It felt just wrong to me. Dd wasn't taking to It either but she took to a bottle first shot and settled for the first time since her birth.
I was so happy when it became evident my milk was never going to come in. I didn't even have to get medication to stop it
Happy mum, happy bub

Most mothers start out wanting to bf
Sure about that?
I hated the idea from the start. Never wanted to do it.
For me, I felt I had no choice but to say i wanted to bf, to avoid lectures and judgement, I learnt that fast. That was judgement from midwives, family, friends, the strangers who felt it their business to ask
The hospital I had dd in as good as ignored me once they saw me give her formula. When they did try teach me to bf I was seen as a mere cow, not a woman who had just given birth, with not even enough respect to be asked to pull down my top, nah they just in and yank it down.
They asked to lie on my discharge papers to say I was fully bf. Their stats ment more to them. We bargained over it, I got an early discharge.

I wish i had the guts to stand up for myself then as a just turned 22yr old

Honestly if people really understood how tiny the health differences are between a bf child and a non bf child, they would not put so much blood sweat and tears into it. They would just enjoy the newborn days.

The benefits are so small they can only be noticed on a national basis.

So while they are technically amazing the difference they make is minimal.

@HavelockVetinari really it is my belief that my son’s tongue tie caused his difficulties latching. He couldn’t feed at all or get any milk out and was starving!

But convincing the BF proponents of this is like a day’s work, honestly. No matter how hungry your kid is, how sore your nipples are, how difficult the latch, it seems there’s never really an acceptable excuse not to continue EBF. You’re told repeatedly that “almost everyone can BF” and it’s implied you aren’t trying hard enough.

I heard a story at the weekend about a confident, assertive woman, senior lawyer in a prestigious firm. She had her first baby and because of this very attitude, he ended up in hospital jaundiced and dehydrated - all because she was so desperate to make EBF work and had picked up the undercurrent attitudes among the BF that formula is the devil incarnate.

Can you imagine the stress of that? I’m so glad I just gave my son formula and he thrived.

It’s a farcical situation and I’ve heard it happen at least twice so goodness knows how prevalent it actually is.

Basically what I’m saying is that I did get some support to BF from a BF cafe up the road. But the lady helping me had to do all sorts of weird and wonderful tricks and contortions with angles, pillows and so on even to get my son to latch!!! We were there an hour and he didn’t manage to get any of my breast milk out!!!

So I thought “what an absolute joke this is” and switched to formula. Never looked back.

@Wolfgirrl is right. The benefits are on a population level.

And as for intelligence and IQ benefits: all the gallons of breast milk in the world cannot counteract the risk of the genetic passing on of the sheer thick-headedness displayed by some on this thread.

Breast or formula, UK babies are getting an excellent first rate feeding product in their early days.

BFing isn’t just about the health benefits.

However, it’s god damn ridiculous to feel ‘sad’ about babies from loving homes whose parents made perfectly legitimate and responsible choices about their feeding. People thinking like this need to channel their energies into something worth their concern or get a hobby.

Theres no evidence it contributes to bonding either, at least in any tangible sense.

My friend was strongly encouraged to breastfeed. The midwife then health visitor were both almost evangelical. Her nipples bled so much that her baby's sick was pink. The HV's response was, 'Ah sure but it won't harm her. It's worth it for her to be getting breast milk. It's not hurting her'. My friend was a weeping, snotty mess at this point, sobbing that it was hurting her and she mattered too. The HV was absolutely horrid to her. She actually rolled her eyes and said, 'Well it looks like you've already decided to give her a bottle then but I'm not talking to you about it'.
Try telling her she 'didn't try hard enough'.

I breastfed my boys because of the health benefits for us both, but mostly not wanting to have to carry around extra stuff, not having to go through the house with a screaming baby trying to prepare milk half-asleep, and the cost. We did attempt formula because I hadn’t gotten a breast pump yet but our son was either sick, constipated or both and I was happy to continue despite the flack I received for not doing formula, mainly from my mother who was too poorly with my sister and I to do so and constantly made remarks asking when I was going to stop because my sons supposedly needed more than that at 4 months 🙄. I was also warned off of nursing by an older cousin after I married my husband citing that it changed her nipples. That wasn’t enough of a reason for me not to try. My breasts weren’t that much different after spending nearly five years nursing and the thought of simply being put off for that reason alone seemed trivial to me compared to the pros that suited me. It was nice to have midwives that were supportive when I was still going past a year.

What a woman chooses is really no one’s business as long as baby is healthy and fed. Assuming that many bf women get lots of support when there is evidence that that isn’t the case for many is just as wrong as assuming formula feeding mothers don’t bf due to not wanting the best for their babies.

Saying that, I do think friend B could have just left friend A to it or ignored her for that week instead of taking it personal. I doubt most mothers regardless of how they feed knew when WBW is unless it’s mentioned and tbh this is the first I’ve heard of it or seen it mentioned considering everything that is going on atm and using social media daily.

I just don’t think the whole ‘world breastfeeding week’ thing helps anyone.

I know the thread has moved on a long way since @Kaiserin posted on the first page but I think she had it bang on.

Yes, UK breastfeeding rates are woeful but that’s a lot to do with hideous postnatal care, a lack of support, and also a refusal to tell expectant mothers what breastfeeding is really like (because the thinking is - if we’re truthful about how incredibly hard breastfeeding is, if we’re truthful about leaking and cluster feeding and blocked ducts and shredded nipples and mastitis, then women are less likely to give breastfeeding a try).

I’ve been breastfeeding my son for a year but it was a very difficult journey, especially in the first 6 months. I didn’t need anyone to ‘normalise’ breastfeeding, I didn’t need a hashtag, I didn’t need a social media campaign - I needed honesty and appropriately qualified and sympathetic support.

And likewise I don’t think WBW helps mothers who are formula feeding either.

I just hate the pressure that’s placed on mothers to breastfeed without backing it up in any meaningful way. And the result is that lots of mums end up feeling like shit.

It is a very long tine since I breastfed and after all these years I can see that there are so many major issues around parenting, breastfeeding is drop in ocean in how we raise, influence and support our children. Stating the obvious, but it really is impossible to tell who was breastfed and who wasn't based on adult health, intelligence, relationship with mother and father etc.

Having said that, I do think World Breastfeeding Week is a nice idea and to be supported, while obviously not denigrating those who didn't want to breastfeed, or who couldn't. I think Black history month is a nice idea, although I'm not black. I don't have a problem with international Men's Day. I'm not breastfeeding, but not every celebration has to centre me and when I was breastfeeding, that wee bit of public support and recognition may have felt nice. I think we can take 'inclusion' too far, to the extent it becomes silly and you can't celebrate anything in case someone feels left out.

So my general view is that there is no harm in it and some may appreciate it. It isn't a big deal in the big scheme of things and certainly not worth actively campaigning against just because it isn't for everyone, or even the majority.

@Monkeynuts18 is bang on the money.

@Wolfgirrl

Honestly if people really understood how tiny the health differences are between a bf child and a non bf child, they would not put so much blood sweat and tears into it. They would just enjoy the newborn days.

The benefits are so small they can only be noticed on a national basis.

So while they are technically amazing the difference they make is minimal.

Yes and yet a poster above is telling someone she doesn’t know that her children wouldn’t be more intelligent or less likely to get cancer if she had breastfed then. It’s a horrible narrative.

I find it sad that women don’t want to try

I find it very weird that anyone would be sad about what another woman chooses to do with her own breasts

Here's one for you... I didn't breastfeed, I never will, never tried, never wanted to. I absolutely hate the thought of it, it makes me feel physically ill. Judge away, feel sad all you like. And whilst you are investing so much of your emotional energy on what I chose to do with my tits, I'll just get on with my life with my perfectly healthy children

I don't have a problem with people supporting breastfeeding, I don't have a problem seeing people breastfeed or hearing them talk about it. What I do have a problem with is the constant comparisons between BF and FF, and I think it's incredibly naive to think the common agenda isn't to make FF mother's feel guilt or shame. You won't get any from me though!

@WheresMyMilk

There is no one thing that breastfeeding guards against completely. It is a bit more likely to protect from this, and a bit more likely to protect from that. But the studies vary enormously, some of them say bf babies are actually more likely to develop allergies, and the fact they need additional vitamin D shows they dont get 'everything' they need from breastmilk. Studies show it has no effect on bonding.

My grandma bf her 5 children. 3 out of 5 are obese, one of them morbidly. One has arthritis, one has gluten intolerance, one always seems to have a cold or flu.

I was bf and have type 1 diabetes (something breastfeeding is supposed to protect against!)

My best friend was formula fed and is in perfect health, she is a gymnast and fit as a fiddle.

My fiance was formula fed and is also in perfect health, a triathlete who has done an iron man blah blah

I know that the few people above dont constitute a study, but it is an example of how minimal the health benefits are.

I’m not getting into an argument about BF vs FF because it’s so dull but @Wolfgirrl you’re incorrect it’s type 2 diabetes FF babies are thought to be at an increased risk from.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@WheresMyMilk

There is no one thing that breastfeeding guards against completely. It is a bit more likely to protect from this, and a bit more likely to protect from that. But the studies vary enormously, some of them say bf babies are actually more likely to develop allergies, and the fact they need additional vitamin D shows they dont get 'everything' they need from breastmilk. Studies show it has no effect on bonding.

My grandma bf her 5 children. 3 out of 5 are obese, one of them morbidly. One has arthritis, one has gluten intolerance, one always seems to have a cold or flu.

I was bf and have type 1 diabetes (something breastfeeding is supposed to protect against!)

My best friend was formula fed and is in perfect health, she is a gymnast and fit as a fiddle.

My fiance was formula fed and is also in perfect health, a triathlete who has done an iron man blah blah

I know that the few people above dont constitute a study, but it is an example of how minimal the health benefits are.[/quote]
I’m not disagreeing with you! People still rely on the studies which don’t account for selection into breastfeeding and the result is @HavelockVetinari saying someone’s child is more likely to get cancer. I just think that’s a really unpleasant thing to say to a mother who formula fed.

I desperately wanted to breastfeed for various reasons, I’m a big supporter of it, but I think people think it makes a massive difference to the life chances of a child when the evidence just doesn’t support that.

All promotions of breast feeding is much needed.