To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

@CatbearAmo

To be honest, i think wbf targets the wrong people, or at least the wrong people feel targeted by it, meaning women who already have children.

When my dd was small, i had no difficult conversations with other women of child bearing age about bf or ff babies and what was best. A woman with a child or children of her own has already made her decisions about how to feed her child and should be left in peace.

Unfortunately, loads of people outside that category have opinions. My dm thought i was harming my child by breastfeeding past six months. My mil told me off for not timing the breastfeeding because i could overfeed my dd. A male waiter in a restaurant refused to serve me an alcoholic drink because I had just breastfed. My friends mil told her off for breastfeeding in front of her fil, and expected her to go away into another room.

These are all the people who need education on breastfeeding, so that women who do bf are left to get on with it and not bombarded with useless incorrect advice.

Although that is the same for many parts of parenting.

Its a good thing to equip women who are about to become mothers with this information to fend off all the unwanted advice, or avoid them being convinced by their own relatives that they are doing something wrong. But once a woman has a child and that ship has sailed, she also needs to be left in peace and not have the bf guilt dragging her back.

@CatbearAmo ^^this! 🙌🏼

On the other hand, everywhere I looked I saw adverts for breastfeeding cafes, breastfeeding support groups, breastfeeding awareness posts on social media. There may not be enough support out there for breastfeeders, but there's absolutely nothing for formula feeders.

The formula comes with instructions, the sterilisers come with instructions. Bottle types are a choice you make, there is so much info out there on it I never understand what is so difficult. I agree a HV shouldn't refuse to discuss ff, which is an odd stance. Even at the bf support groups I attend (or did pre pandemic) ff mothers were welcomed and given advice if they needed it.
Given the abysmally low bf rates in this country ff is very much 'the norm' and so info is freely available.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8600527/Lets-normalise-breastfeeding-Millie-Mackintosh-shares-snap-cradling-daughter-Sienna.html

@GlummyMcGlummerson Millie Mackintosh is asking for breastfeeding stories, presume you've already posted? But just in case you havent...

I think you should support your breastfeeding friend and remind the other one that she did her very very best and therefore has nothing to feel guilty about . Unless of course she didn’t and is now feeling guilty because she knows that she didn’t.
I expressed for months for my first while she was in hospital and moved onto specialist formula when she was about 8 months old . I bf my second until he started nursery . No one can make me feel guilty about not bf my first because under the circumstances , I did my very best. It didn’t work out .
Anyone I know who gave up after a few months did so because they couldn’t be bothered to continue . It was about them and not about what was best for the child.
I don’t think bf rates will ever increase much more than we have currently because ff is just too easy and human nature will always take the easiest path .

The formula comes with instructions, the sterilisers come with instructions. Bottle types are a choice you make, there is so much info out there on it I never understand what is so difficult

There's plenty online about how to breastfeed, plus it's natural so surely it isn't difficult. Although it is acknowledged that it is for many women and support is fundamental, the same for FFing, just because you don't understand why it's difficult doesn't mean that it isn't for some. Some find it super simple, some don't and would benefit from a health care professional being able to offer some simple advice. I remember a midwife said to me that they just figure people know how to formula feed, why would I? Even following the instructions that was allegedly wrong and it should be calculated by their weight, and I was scolded for that, Google has all sorts of random info, surely an NHS line would be safer and better. Why can't we support all women?

Anyone I know who gave up after a few months did so because they couldn’t be bothered to continue. It was about them and not about what was best for the child.

Honestly - like, so what? Yeah, it absolutely was about me that I gave up BF. But the phrase “couldn’t be bothered” immediately and unfairly implies laziness or a lack of effort. But I was cracking up with the stress of it when my son repeatedly couldn’t latch.

I fed him a bottle of formula that hot August night we took him home from hospital after he couldn’t latch yet again. And I’m so so glad I did; probably saved him from a fate a couple I subsequently met a BF cafe suffered, with their son rushed to hospital jaundiced and dehydrated and needing an IV drip. All because of the obsessive insistence on EBF.

Madness.

It was about them and not about what was best for the child

And that's fine, we are still people and if a mother finds that they are struggling then fair play to them for making that decision. I would say that one running themselves into the ground isn't beneficial for the baby either. That doesn't take away from those who continue on and achieve what they want to, which is fantastic, but nothing wrong either with considering yourself in the decision making process.

Absolutely. There’s a real undercurrent on MN that if you’re not completely subjugating your needs to that of your child, you’re a terrible mother. See it all the time over on the sleep boards as well - mum comes on struggling with child’s frequent waking, someone always comes along and suggests co-sleeping rather than letting them cry at all during any sleep training. Even though co sleeping probably means the parents’ sleep is still broken multiple times a night.

There must be maternal sacrifice. That’s part of the gig. Buy this absolute subjugation of one’s own needs the minute one becomes a mother is really wrong-headed in my view.

@Purpletigers - this is exactly the type of post about breastfeeding that gets people's backs up. Only you tried your very best, no one else did, everyone else you know gave up because they couldn't be bothered. You sound so judgemental and really unpleasant.

I’m happy to say I couldn’t care less how other parents feed their babies. Their baby, their choice. Just let everyone make their own decisions- it’s nothing to do with anyone else.

@Purpletigers

So you always unfailingly do what is best for your child and not what is more convenient to you? Is their diet 100% organic? Have you moved to the rural countryside where the air is cleaner? Do you use vinegar instead of cleaning products? Do you cook all their meals from scratch? Do they always get their quota of exercise a day?

[quote Wolfgirrl]@Purpletigers

So you always unfailingly do what is best for your child and not what is more convenient to you? Is their diet 100% organic? Have you moved to the rural countryside where the air is cleaner? Do you use vinegar instead of cleaning products? Do you cook all their meals from scratch? Do they always get their quota of exercise a day?[/quote]
@Wolfgirrl i breastfed both DC for nearly 18 months Each time, because yeah partly it is good for them but mainly because it was a doddle for me, I had the right support and it fitted into my life... I think some BF mums feel a bit holier than thou about the whole thing... I’ll happily say neither of my kids are especially gifted (no offence kids 😂), get the same bugs as everyone else and they love a happy meal as much as the next guy! I’m all for what’s best for kids, but breast milk isn’t a golden elixir that allows some mums to act as though they’ve provided their children with any more nurture and care Than anyone else.

@Remy82

Lol. I just find it weird when people say bottle feeding 'isnt doing the best for your kids' but seriously, who does their 'best' all the time? It is only bfing that inspires this attitude.

I didn’t know health visitors wouldn’t discuss formula feeding, that really is bad. Mine wouldn’t discuss co-sleeping (which I told her I was doing and had no intention of stopping). Actually, now I think of it, that’s another barrier to breastfeeding - if they want people to carry on doing it they should teach them to co-sleep safely and to feed lying down. It was the only way I got through the early weeks and I’ve seen lots of people on here say the same.

And I don’t think “it was about what was best for her and not for the child” is fair. You don’t have to be endlessly self sacrificing as a mother, that’s not a reasonable expectation and sometimes it might be healthier nutrition-wise but not actually be the ‘best’ thing when you look at the whole picture. I made myself pretty ill in my determination to continue exclusively breastfeeding and at the point at which I decided to give some formula that was definitely overall the best decision for me, the baby and her father. That doesn’t make ‘breast is best’ untrue or mean that people that are proud of overcoming bf challenges shouldn’t be able to mention it, though.

Yes!!

I didn’t know health visitors wouldn’t discuss formula feeding, that really is bad.

It’s spectacularly stupid, not discussing FF never made anyone BF. And FFing should be done according to guidelines, which should be clearly explained.

And I don’t think “it was about what was best for her and not for the child” is fair.

I totally agree. I’m a big advocate for BFing, but the advantage in health terms isn’t very significant and there are many, many other factors to consider.

@Purpletigers

I think you should support your breastfeeding friend and remind the other one that she did her very very best and therefore has nothing to feel guilty about . Unless of course she didn’t and is now feeling guilty because she knows that she didn’t. I expressed for months for my first while she was in hospital and moved onto specialist formula when she was about 8 months old . I bf my second until he started nursery . No one can make me feel guilty about not bf my first because under the circumstances , I did my very best. It didn’t work out . Anyone I know who gave up after a few months did so because they couldn’t be bothered to continue . It was about them and not about what was best for the child. I don’t think bf rates will ever increase much more than we have currently because ff is just too easy and human nature will always take the easiest path .

So you won't feel guilty for not breastfeeding your first but you believe other women who choose not to must be doing so out of laziness? Is it at all possible that other women's experiences and issues might differ from yours and that by making blanket statements like "not about what was best for the child" you're doing more harm to them?

I find making up bottles to be quite tricky, tbh, and in fact I loathe it and almost never do it myself - lots of components and steps in the process and things that can go wrong, and I’ve never done it in a middle of the night haze. Health visitors (who in my experience can signpost to breastfeeding support if it’s available, but can’t really offer any themselves) would do well to make sure all parents, including EBF ones, know how to make a bottle safely should they need to.

This WBW week discussion has given me a lot of interesting insight into the not-breastfeeding journey

I FF both my girls by choice. Never even attempted breastfeeding. Wasn’t for me.

Didn’t find bottles a faff. Perfect prep, microwave steam steriliser. Husband able to do half the night feeds - it was great for us.

No one has ever made me feel bad about it. Not one midwife or HV or random in a coffee shop. My girls are switched on and intelligent and healthy and happy. I have no regrets whatsoever and if I ever have baby #3 (unlikely) I’d do the exact same thing again.

@upsidedownwavylegs - prefect prep is your best friend. The best idea for new parents.

I gave my eldest formula, did you miss that part . I’m saying that no one can make someone feel guilty about not bf.
You either did your best and it didn’t work or you didn’t want to which is fine too . The second friend in the op’s scenario is being over dramatic.

To the questions no, yes, no, yes( about 80/90%) , yes .
I find it sad that women don’t want to try but it’s up to them what they do . If, however, they don’t want to try to bf at all , then why do they feel the need to comment on women who do ? Fed is necessary, breast is best and I say that as someone who gave my eldest formula.

I find it sad that women don’t want to try

Please don’t waste your energy being sad for my girls. I can assure you they haven’t been negatively affected by my decision in the slightest.

It’s funny that you are criticising women who choose not to breastfeed for commenting on others’ choices (which I haven’t done once, by the way) and yet here you are doing the exact same thing. Albeit in a cowardly, passive aggressive manner.

@Purpletigers

To the questions no, yes, no, yes( about 80/90%) , yes . I find it sad that women don’t want to try but it’s up to them what they do . If, however, they don’t want to try to bf at all , then why do they feel the need to comment on women who do ? Fed is necessary, breast is best and I say that as someone who gave my eldest formula.

It’s the sly little digs like “necessary”, have also seen fed is “bare minimum” that are really unhelpful. In this context “fed” clearly means formula feeding, as bf is mentioned separately and there are only two options for feeding a young baby.

I also have no idea why you find it sad women don’t want to breastfeed.

I never attempted BF. I never wanted to, but when I was pregnant with DD1, I honestly felt forced into saying I'd try it because I felt like I'd be a shit mum if I didn't.

One traumatic EMCS late night birth later, the midwife asked if I was BF or FF as I came around from GA. She could tell I was uncomfortable and said if I didn't want to BF, it was fine. I never looked back after that.

FF has worked beautifully for me. I have two settled and thriving kids who are content and happy. They sleep through and have done from about 7 weeks. I get sleep and my partner can feed them, too. We are all very happy in this household. (My girls and I have a great bond, too. I genuinely don't know how it could be any stronger so I don't feel like FF has impacted upon that.)

I respect women who BF as in my pregnancy groups I've seen the struggles so many have gone through. For me, mentally, I know I couldn't cope with it. So kudos to the BF mummies.

It just would be nice if some people could be a little more pleasant about those who FF. There's a plethora of reasons why someone could be FF, and even if someone is unashamedly happy with their decision, trying to bring them down as a mother because of how they feed their baby isn't okay.

As long as the baby is fed and thriving, and the mum is happy and her MH isn't compromised, it doesn't matter how baby is fed. So, on that count, I'd always stay neutral