To ask your opinion on this #WorldBreastfeedingWeek debate

[Napqueen1234]

Sorry if this sounds childish referred to social media etc but interested to canvas opinions.

A friend of mine shared a post on Instagram re world breastfeeding week about how it’s the best thing for baby and mum, so proud she could do it, perseverance etc. She’s a very zealous breastfeeder generally (and why not!) and was a good person to go to for advice when I was struggling although did say she was ‘disappointed I had given in’ after 2 months. Anyway!

Another friend then shared a post about Fed Is Best (she struggled bf and switched to formula and has always found it difficult seeing bf women, a lot of guilt and sadness that I feel she needs to process somehow) and how WBW is just another stick to beat ‘failed breast feeders’ with and anyone who wants to breastfeed gets loads of support from midwives etc and generally society nowadays so it isn’t needed.

Both have since messaged me about the other stating they are upset (we are a close group of 4, the other doesn’t have DC so I suppose I’m mediator). Friend one feels like this is one week where BF should be celebrated and acknowledged is better. Friend two feels mother’s should be more understanding to the feelings of those that couldn’t breastfeed and not ‘brag’.

I have remained fairly moderate and tried to calm things but who do you think is right?

YABU- it’s world breastfeeding week! It’s best let them have their moment.

YANBU- it can make women feel very sad who didn’t bf or who ‘failed’ so social media posts should be mindful of this.

they must be stemming from some hysterical outpouring of trauma..

But actually many women in relation to BF do, including myself. We are never really listened to in favour of those who have an opinion (which is fine of course) that ultimately they are never going to change their mind on, and adds little to progressing anything in a positive direction. Until that's addressed nothing will really change.

Yup.

I live in a middle class area, and there’s a good bit of BF support out there - but still not enough. I threw in the towel after a week.

And if I ever had another, I would ensure they got colostrum but would not go beyond that. I would just disconnect from the whole thing and FF from the start because very aggressive BF proponents have made the activity of BF for me very stressful and fraught. Better just to opt out.

@LaurieMarlow

it’s fine to make formula feeding women feel shit about themselves, their parenting, and their bodies so that people can gloat about how they breastfed and did better for their babies

Who’s saying that though? If anyone is comparing themselves directly to FFing mothers to make that point, that’s appalling.

Sorry I wasn’t implying it was a deliberate attempt to make ff mothers feel shit, but some of the thread has been about how some bf posts about breast being best upset those who can’t breastfeed, and some posters have said (not in so many words) tough shit to those mothers, it’s their issue and they have to deal with it. I’m saying that approach is wrong and that when posting about breastfeeding people should be mindful about how they’re making others feel, because those women matter too.

@LaurieMarlow

Well if ppl react so emotionally to a body part doing what it was designed to do, something is going on.

Yes I have already said that about the smug fb posters.

I think the campaign is against formula milk companies who unethically push their products when it is a baby's right to breastfeed. I support the use of formula milk when medically indicated, but having it pushed by formula companies as a lifestyle choice (e.g. showing idyllic images associated with their products such a bonnie baby) is inappropriate and we need to keep resisting the control or the rich formula companies. There is not much money in breastfeeding; the big bucks come from selling modified cow's milk to give to human babies, and the government know this and benefit from it.

Where is all of this advertising? Admittedly I don't watch much telly, but it's always mentioned.

when it is a baby’s right to breastfeed

See, it’s these kind of sentences so blithely uttered that really piss off mothers who FF. So we denied our baby a (presumably fundamental) right now?

OK.

It is baby's right to be adequately nourished so they are full & healthy.

I would sooner FF my baby than starve them out and let them lose weight like PP mentioned, just to fulfil my own motherhood ambitions.

I mean it should go against your maternal instinct to see your child hungry or under fed.

baby's right to breastfeed

Let's Not go down that path.
A baby has a right to be fed a safe product that will support them nutritionally. Be that breast milk if the mother can and WANTS to or formula.
But no one can actually force a woman to bf, express, seek help to bf or even try. Despite what some bf pushers think.

I don't understand people's claims that formula companies are pushing formula with lots of adverts, etc. It's simply not true. There are very strict rules about the promotion of formula. The only advert I can think of is for some sort of follow on milk but it says that breastfeeding is more ideal. I couldn't tell you the brand of it so it's obviously not been pushed down my throat enough. The PP who complained that the formula and bottles are placed in supermarkets next to nappies is ridiculous. Where else should it be placed if not conveniently next to other baby products? Should it be hidden away like a shameful secret? Should people have to go to a different place to ask for it?

it is a baby's right to breastfeed. I support the use of formula milk when medically indicated, but having it pushed by formula companies as a lifestyle choice e.g. showing idyllic images associated with their products such a bonnie baby is inappropriate

No, your mindset is inappropriate.

The only campaigns against formula companies I'm aware of is when they've unethically promoting it in areas with unclean water and over promoting the unproven benefits in areas where formula feeding has higher risks (like the one currently pinned about using fears of the coronavirus). This is more international corporation being shite & needs to be made accountable issue and has nothing to do with breastfeeding in the UK.

Yeah “it’s a baby’s right to breastfeed” is not cricket.

I never felt formula was pushed on me by formula companies, and also don’t understand that point. In fact when I ended up formula feeding child 1, I had no idea where to start.

Also having recently googled how to stop breastfeeding because it’s not really working, I got loads of information which advised of how to carry on. I honestly find the info on breastfeeding more prevalent than on formula feeding.

We all know formula feeding companies are arseholes but that’s not really the point here.

@LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus I’d be interested to know what your definition of “medically indicated” is. If a mother’s mental health is suffering due to finding breastfeeding hard does that count as a medical indication for formula feeding, even if physiologically she could perhaps do it? What if she’s finding breastfeeding really painful, is that sufficient for you?

Can we also quit with the facile comparisons to celebrating running a marathon, drinking alcohol and whatever else people have come up with. Clearly there is a marked difference between those lifestyle choices being celebrated and deliberately or otherwise making someone feel they have not done their best for their baby by using formula. The mental health impact is entirely different.

The attachment between mother (or other primary caregiver) and baby has far and away a greater, proven, health impact on a baby than feeding choice. And for some mothers, feeding choice/pressure/being made to feel like a failure can have a detrimental impact on the mother's mental health and that bond.

Being told I breastfed to satisfy my own sexual urges and that I was failing my child by not letting them bond with others through feeding and putting unneeded stress of myself certainly had an effect on my mental health as does seeing people falling over drunk or high as the child of addicts who spent my childhood cleaning up after them.

Everyone gets shitty judgement, even more so when it comes to babies. Many people in the early years of parenting have a need for community that may require reaching out online through posts and photos. Everyone has different things that fucks with their mental health.

As someone still upset and angry about how abysmal their attempt to breastfeed their baby was, and who cried seeing a world breastfeeding week photo on Sunday, I think this debate is a bit ridiculous. I don’t think world breastfeeding week is ridiculous, self seeking, or making me as a FF mum feel like shit - I’m glad it exists, and I celebrate my friends who are better at breastfeeding than I was. However, I do feel there is a lack of understanding around breastfeeding grief, or even acknowledging it as a thing. Everyone just says oh well she’s fine now, like my feelings or sadness aren’t important.

I don't agree at all that people only post pictures of themselves breastfeeding in order to show what a brilliant parent they are. I think many people want the pictures out there so that images of breastfeeding mothers have an equal chance of exposure and equal representation to images of bottle feeding babies, thereby hoping to normalise it. At one time this was practically unheard of. Thank goodness that is changing.

Why does it need a week? Why do some people have to be such evangelists and why do some people have to take everything so personally? Can't people just get on with feeding their baby these days?

@FudgeBrownie2019

Wow what a lovely friend you are and I'm sure you assisted your friend in continuing with BF.

That's exactly what women need whether it be a friend who can stay the night and offer her advice from her own experience or a BF support service that can spend the day doing the same thing. Perhaps that would give more women the confidence and support needed to start/ continue BF.

I truly hate the fact that there is a need to 'normalise' BF, it is bloody normal

I do feel there is a lack of understanding around breastfeeding grief, or even acknowledging it as a thing. Everyone just says oh well she’s fine now, like my feelings or sadness aren’t important.

Sending , I completely agree. If it isn't 'oh they're fine now, so we don't need to talk about it', it's 'just get on it with it'.

I think some of the possibly overly happy photos are because if we post anything else about it, we basically get told our pain doesn't matter and certainly not enough to have it acknowledged and talked about openly. We can't talk about painful issues with breastfeeding and we can't discuss the pain of needing to transition to mixed or full formula feeling without getting the message about how no one cares and to be grateful. We need better community support, I'm not sure how to get it with the current general attitudes that pushes people to feel they need to defend a side and keep quiet otherwise.

I'm very pro-breastfeeding, which doesn't equate with 'anti-formula'. BF mothers shouldn't be afraid of merely talking about or participating in BF in case it 'upsets' other mothers. BF rates in the UK are low, and that people make it out to be some incredibly difficult feat which tends to set others up to fail from the beginning. It's hardly surprising people struggle - likely because they expect to struggle.

The idea of BF as a cause for celebration is also a bit odd. I BF for 18 months. Like many other mums I had no support system other than DH, my own mum being dead. The first 12 weeks was gruelling - I was practically on my knees from exhaustion - but from that point onward I suspect it was a far easier option than FF. I'm glad I BF, but not particularly 'proud' and don't see it as an achievement. The human race fed that way for several hundred thousand years before formula. We'd hardly have survived all that time if BF were as impossible as some people make it sound.

It worked for me and DC. In other circumstances it wouldn't. Had I gone on to have subsequent DC it might well have been impossible even accounting for baby-wearing, and totally unfair on the elder DC who would also have been entitled to a portion of my time and attention. DC latched for hours and hours per day. With anything other to concentrate on than that one baby, I doubt I'd have gone on anywhere near as long as I did. Likewise for women who need to return to work sooner.

What it boils down to is that this is your own business. Who cares what others - total strangers especially - think of your personal family decisions? No one can make you 'feel bad' about those decisions unless you choose to let them. As for the two 'friends' of the OP, this doesn't merit any intervention whatsoever and wouldn't be getting any from me.

The breast versus bottle debate is like a treadmill to nowhere.

I did breastfeed for at least 18 months on both occasions; but I don’t celebrate the week as to me it’s like celebrating ‘gave birth without complications week’ (not a real week)... neither are a huge achievement if you’re lucky enough to have to confidence, support and of course physical ability to do them... I do think it’s important to inform women that there are risks to not breastfeeding as it isn’t the ‘biological norm’ for babies and things like antibodies can’t be replicated in formula blah blah blah... but if you know that and are accepting and happy with that then you shouldn’t feel crappy about choosing to formula feed... I guess what I’m saying is it shouldn’t take away from the OPs friend that her other friend does want to celebrate breastfeeding, But it’s the wrong way of doing it for me - like Let’s just work to help women make informed choices all the time...

I honestly find the info on breastfeeding more prevalent than on formula feeding.

True. I found formula feeding a real minefield with DD1. I really struggled with the different types of bottles, different teats, different formulas, whether she was drinking the right amount, whether I was sterilising properly. When I dared to asked my bitch of a HV whether she thought an organic formula might be better for DDs tummy, she shot me down with a very snotty "Oh, I'm not allowed to discuss formula feeding."

On the other hand, everywhere I looked I saw adverts for breastfeeding cafes, breastfeeding support groups, breastfeeding awareness posts on social media. There may not be enough support out there for breastfeeders, but there's absolutely nothing for formula feeders.

To be honest, i think wbf targets the wrong people, or at least the wrong people feel targeted by it, meaning women who already have children.

When my dd was small, i had no difficult conversations with other women of child bearing age about bf or ff babies and what was best. A woman with a child or children of her own has already made her decisions about how to feed her child and should be left in peace.

Unfortunately, loads of people outside that category have opinions. My dm thought i was harming my child by breastfeeding past six months. My mil told me off for not timing the breastfeeding because i could overfeed my dd. A male waiter in a restaurant refused to serve me an alcoholic drink because I had just breastfed. My friends mil told her off for breastfeeding in front of her fil, and expected her to go away into another room.

These are all the people who need education on breastfeeding, so that women who do bf are left to get on with it and not bombarded with useless incorrect advice.

Although that is the same for many parts of parenting.

Its a good thing to equip women who are about to become mothers with this information to fend off all the unwanted advice, or avoid them being convinced by their own relatives that they are doing something wrong. But once a woman has a child and that ship has sailed, she also needs to be left in peace and not have the bf guilt dragging her back.