‘I won’t be employing women with children again’

[Everhopefulhev]

AIBU in feeling really wound up by this comment?
I’ve just had to quit my new job as my childcare arrangement fell through which is shit for my employer because obviously they could do without having to find someone else. However, whilst talking to my current boss he said ‘I won’t be employing women with children again’ and told me not to take it personally or think he’s a dick for saying it.
Is this just an example of the problems women face in the workplace? Just because I didn’t work out for them they are disqualifying any further woman with a child?
I just find this type of thing infuriating.

I feel for you but look at it from there point of view they've invested time and no doubt money to recruit and train you now there back to square 1.

Presumably he wont take young women without children either, in case they get pregnant.

My friend has this too. She's a widow and her boss is incredibly unsympathetic.

What Sunglasses123 said. I am a woman and a small business owner, in a male dominated industry. I've gone out of my way to employ women, to help move the gender balance. The last two just took advantage of the fact they had children left, right and centre. both of them had husbands in jobs where they could have as easily taken on the childcare burden part of the time, but didn't. So someone else will have to solve the gender gap problem now

I think a lot of bosses think this. I worked for a small company who told me they favoured childfree or older women or even better divorced and childfree because they’re more committed to their jobs and willing to work long hours.

But the. I was made redundant as soon as I returned from maternity leave and I’ve since met 12 women who have been made redundant on or soon after maternity leave.

I don't think there is any point getting wound up with the employer here.
Recruitment is expensive, and having vacant posts causes business disruption and can cost money if s/he needs to get in agency staff. It's a cop out to make it illegal to discriminate but then not equalise the job seeking capacity of parents and non-parents.

The problem should be put firmly at the door of government. Government should be ensuring that there is adequate, flexible and accessible childcare for parents when they need it. I almost had to turn down a job I was offered because of difficulties arranging childcare. I was very lucky that I had volunteered at one child care establishment and they managed to pull some strings to get me a place. If they hadn't I just wouldn't have been able to take up the job.
Trying to arrange childcare at short notice is very, very difficult. And God help you if you are trying to get a job with hours outside the 9-5!

It seems there’s a common problem here and rather than blame working mothers, employers and working mothers need to come together and put pressure on the government. How can we possibly expect people to be at work (or available for work) for the vast majority of the day when they have young children to look after? In France, the government subsidies childcare, it’s seen as a crucial public service to allow people (mainly women) to return to work. Whereas here childcare often costs more than a monthly mortgage payment. There’s the very apt quote, “women expected to work like they don’t have children and mother like they don’t work.” An impossible situation.

From my own teams point of view it's always the woman the school ring first in in case of illness and it's always the women looking for flexible hours etc never the men, I often think by letting them away with it we are our own worst Enemy.

I agree with your second point, although going by the things I read on here many men (and the people and structures that surround, validate and enable them) are intractable.

On your first, that is the school's fault and not the mother's, no? It's an example of entrenched sexism and assumptions about roles.

You should have told your ex partner to stump up the extra cost

Do people really think that telling your ex he needs to pay more (or at all) towards childcare expenses actually results in the ex actually coughing up the money? Are people that clueless?! It’s almost like some people are blaming the OP here for being a single parent and apparently taking on all or nearly all of the care by herself.

OP, your ex boss is a dickbag and this isn’t uncommon. I’ve had similar said to me before and I know plenty of others (all women obviously) who have too.

@RachelLyg thank you for your helpful suggestion. I have applied for quite a few posts with my local council who offer flexi hours so I’m really hoping something comes off for me!

@ivfdreaming

You clearly have no experience of dealing with a narcissist co-parent.

Lucky you.

Many employers filter out women of child bearing age especially if they are married and catholic.

How would an employer know a woman is Catholic?

He shouldn't have said that but I get a bit miffed where I work with some women using the old childcare thing to get all the best holidays and stuff - it's like just 'cos my kids are grown up I should let them take easter off Christmas and New Year and just put up with the leftovers

They don't 'use' the old childcare thing. They have 13 weeks when their kids are off school and need someone to be at home with them. Jesus H Christ!

In arguably more civilised countries (e.g. Scandinavia), affordable childcare is, I think, provided by the state, in the same way that schooling is (and health care, etc.)
In other word, it is treated as an essential public service, not a nice-to-have, optional extra.

If the British government was actually serious about lifting children out of poverty, by getting their parents in employment, it would make affordable & widely available childcare an absolute priority.

But I guess it's easier and cheaper to just have unenforceable equality laws.

[quote mathanxiety]@ivfdreaming

You clearly have no experience of dealing with a narcissist co-parent.

Lucky you.[/quote]

You're right because I wouldn't have chose to have a child with one 🤷‍♀️ we all know deep down what our partners are like - it's rare they hide their true colours to the extent it's such a surprise after children come along

really begrudge people implying that when people require a bit of leeway due to children they are taking the piss, sometimes you have no choice, and unfortunately nowadays a lot of families need both parents working

Quite!

IntermittentParps

On your first, that is the school's fault and not the mother's, no? It's an example of entrenched sexism and assumptions about roles.

It's the fault of whichever parent filled in the form and put the mother's phone number as the first emergency contact.

It’s a very difficult issue and I have sympathy with all sides. As an employer it is really hard to get a good temp in for maternity cover and that’s if you can get approval from HQ for the extra cost. So the rest of the team pitch in and feel pissed off. My own personal feelings are that this discrimination and assumed responsibility by the mother will not change until parental leave has to be shared 50/50 by law. Until it is mandated that men have to take half responsibility then the workplace will never be equal. Of course this is not a popular viewpoint

This is why we all have responses prepared for interviews, and male DP never has.

This is why I have a professional twitter, and never talk about my children on it.

Absolute fuckers.

When I was employing I found that it didn't matter if someone had kids or was planning kids, or anything else - if they were a good employee, they were good, and having some flexibility from both sides made it work.

Besides which, pregnancy and childcare is only one reason people are out of work - I remember in one job my boss was out for 6 months following a (catastrophic) sports injury, another was regularly in hospital with crippling migraines, a 3rd had time off for a sex change, another had some major dentistry work (jaw related) that took them away for a month, and then regularly out after that. Not to mention the older employee who broke her hip and was housebound, so we brought work to her, and another poor guy who had a heart attack and was blue lit from the office, and retired rather than come back.

I don't see people keeping back that they kite-surf or play rugby, or any other high risk activities though.

@Aridane

I asked the same question above. No answer yet. I’m flummoxed too 😀.

Good luck OP. It’s quite a difficult recruitment market at the moment but the recruiters I am talking too are expecting an upswing in September / October. I lost my job too but I have faith that we will both find a suitable role if we keep trying. .

Ugh what a shitty situation all round. This is really the not-so-hidden cost of lockdown and of course hits mothers hardest, as well as women without children who will be discriminated against by biased employers in future.

My aunt is a single mum, her son is the same age as DS1 and they are moving in with us in a couple of weeks so we can split childcare three ways between her, me and DH - it's crazy, feels like something out of the 19th century that this is her best option.

www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi

www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/search_vacancy/

Try these too, if you haven’t seen them already.

Yes, we ask for contacts to be listed in the order they should be called now, specifically so sexism don't fall foul of casual sexism by calling mum. It almost always is mum listed as first contact though.

As so many women allow the fathers of their children to opt out of any responsibility, I can understand employers not wanting to be lumbered.

WTF?! Allow?! How exactly do you force a feckless father to take responsibility? Half of them won’t even pay the bare minimum in maintenance and manage to wriggle out of any agreements without the courts doing a thing about it. Do you honestly think it’s on women to somehow MAKE these idiots step up and parent their own DCs? Maybe just dump the kids on his doorstep and drive away?

The reason it mainly falls to women is because we would NEVER use our children to score points against their dad.

What with the over 50s being chucked out, and any woman of childbearing age, there aren't going to be many people left to oil the wheels of commerce!