‘I won’t be employing women with children again’

[Everhopefulhev]

AIBU in feeling really wound up by this comment?
I’ve just had to quit my new job as my childcare arrangement fell through which is shit for my employer because obviously they could do without having to find someone else. However, whilst talking to my current boss he said ‘I won’t be employing women with children again’ and told me not to take it personally or think he’s a dick for saying it.
Is this just an example of the problems women face in the workplace? Just because I didn’t work out for them they are disqualifying any further woman with a child?
I just find this type of thing infuriating.

[Aridane]

your post is a funny thing to state on a parenting

Actually, no , since the post was about women / parents In the workplace. OP was posting about the exasperation off her employer in this regard and I was posting too about the exasperation / adverse effects employees can find too in this regard

[Aridane]

@Luddite26 - apologies, it was an irritated exclamation in response to the post immediately above)

[Luddite26]

That might be your experience Aridane and your post is a funny thing to state on a parenting website. Ive picked up the slack in workplaces from many members of staff - not very often mothers of young children but at least if you have children you will be able to enjoy the perks yourself of working in a family friendly organisation.

[Aridane]

I am so fucking fed up picking up the slack from parents at work. where I work (‘family friendly’), having children is a get out of jail free card for behaviours that would otherwise Lead to a disciplinary/ dismissal. and this was pre pandemic.

[Luaper]

I think parents should be given better employment rights and should sign this petition

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/319813

[Chickenwing]

I feel the same but wouls never admit it or say it out loud. Maternity leave and time off for dependants is an issue in business.

[ZoeTurtle]

SnackSizeRaisin I'm not sure why you didn't quote the second part of my paragraph, but even if maternity leave was two years I don't think many women would be willing to "give" the second year to their partners.

[PeachyLife]

@Iwalkinmyclothing

However, whilst talking to my current boss he said ‘I won’t be employing women with children again’ and told me not to take it personally or think he’s a dick for saying it.

Showing he's well aware he's a dick. Gah.

I'd want to email him about something else and sneak "have been thinking about what you said the other re not employing women with children again" in there and try and get him to acknowledge that he said it, but I expect it would be very obvious and he wouldn't fall for it.

Why would you want to do that? just to sue him?

[meme70]

@katy1213

As so many women allow the fathers of their children to opt out of any responsibility, I can understand employers not wanting to be lumbered.

Wow that’s such a bad comment do you know how many fathers actually avoid at all costs having nothing to do with their child / children so many. Don’t blame the mums for the awful sperm doners

[SueEllenMishke]

@user1487194234

Ok I carried and delivered them,and breast fed them for a year
But outside of that my DH and I have had equal responsibility for them and everything else and have both preserved our careers

Same here.
In fact we've both progressed our careers significantly since becoming parents.

[GreekOddess]

In my department there are two women with children, me and someone who reports into me. At work you would never know that we have children we both have partners who do their share, we are available after hours, fully flexible etc.

There are two men in my department who also have children, working from home they have been interrupted a few times and have had to take the odd half day off for childcare issues. They both finish work at a sensible time. It's not a problem but they don't have the point to prove that the women righty or wrongly feel they have to make.

If I applied for another job and was refused because I have children that would be grossly unfair as being a mother has made me more determined to achieve not less.

[CatsArePeopleToo]

I've never met a man with a partner who had to...

or can't a partner's job be equally important?
I work with a type who just can't let go off helicoptering. Kids are in secondary. The sky will not fall if you don't attend every single school event, or kids have to stay at home alone for an hour or two. If mine can, surely yours can too?

[user1487194234]

Ok I carried and delivered them,and breast fed them for a year
But outside of that my DH and I have had equal responsibility for them and everything else and have both preserved our careers

[VinylDetective]

@user1487194234

It’s not fair but women have to prioritise for a few years if they have small children - always have, always will
Surely parents have to prioritise

When men start having babies, yes. Mother Nature hasn’t had the memo yet.

[mathanxiety]

...in all fairness, I never met a man who would refuse a task or drop everything because Junior lost a shoe or has a piano recital.

I've never met a man with a partner who had to...

And in all fairness to women, I've never met one who refused a task because Junior lost a shoe, and since piano recitals tend to be scheduled weeks in advance parents wishing to attend usually book the time off well in advance.

I've met plenty of managers who disregarded scheduled time off for employees and expected them to do an about turn on an afternoon they had booked off for months, or started asking at 4.45 for volunteers to put in three hours of overtime.

[user1487194234]

It’s not fair but women have to prioritise for a few years if they have small children - always have, always will
Surely parents have to prioritise

[SnackSizeRaisin]

How many women, for example, would happily share mat/paternity leave 50/50 so they get six months and the father gets six months? The uptake has been very low and, based anecdotally from past Mumsnet threads, it's not just the fathers who don't want it.

Well you can't get away from the fact that it's the woman who goes through pregnancy, labour, and probably breastfeeding and the associated lack of sleep. The first 6 months of maternity leave are often spent in a fog of exhaustion, recovering physically and trying to get back into shape. You can hardly blame women for not wanting to hand over the second half which is a lot more fun, to their male partner who has been physically unaffected by any of it! The only way to get parity will be to make a longer period available to all men, regardless of how long the woman takes. So maybe a year each.

You are right that you cannot have it all. Children take up a lot of time and energy, and that has to come from some other area of life. If both parents are mega career driven, possibly they shouldn't have children.

[SnackSizeRaisin]

Tony Blair wanted to introduce subsidised childcare to get mothers back into work. The reason this went no further is a raft of research showing that spending more than 10 hours a week in a group care setting is detrimental to under 3s.

I do think there should be more support for single parents with child care costs from a younger age.

[EyesOpening]

Recruitment and training is quite costly for companies, they need to make the benefits (mat/pat pay, mat/pat leave, parental leave etc) of the job for parents more attractive and flexible to keep their employees through that natural and common short stage in their life. (I get that this won’t be applicable to all companies)
I once worked with a young girl who told me that she was in trouble over her sickness and asked me if I thought it was a lot - she’d had more time off sick (she didn’t have a long term illness, I’m talking hangovers, calling in sick on sunny days etc) in the short time she’d been at the company than I’d had in the approx 10 years I’d been there at that time!

[VinylDetective]

@Phineyj

No, but as is evident from this thread, all women potentially face prejudice from this, even if they have no children.

It depends what stage of your life you’re at. My experience is that prejudice works for you once your child raising years are over.

It’s not fair but women have to prioritise for a few years if they have small children - always have, always will. None of us can have it all, however much we want it.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

@MaskingForIt

In most couples with children the man’s job pays more than the woman’s though?

That’s entirely the woman’s choice though. Many women chose low-paid, low-skilled careers, then bitch and moan that their man earns more than them and it is the woman who’s “career” takes a back seat.

Pay often doesn't reflect the value to society of a given job, or the educational and professional level required to do it. If the unions had more membership and more power that might change a bit

[ZoeTurtle]

It's going to be this way until caring for children is, culturally, shared 50/50. And we have problems from both sides: deadbeat fathers, or men who think children are the responsibility of women. And women who want to be the primary parent and wouldn't let it be 50/50 even if the father was willing.

How many women, for example, would happily share mat/paternity leave 50/50 so they get six months and the father gets six months? The uptake has been very low and, based anecdotally from past Mumsnet threads, it's not just the fathers who don't want it. Even if the total leave period was doubled to two years, I'm willing to bet the majority of women would want to take the two themselves rather than share.

We can't generally have it all. If we want workplace equality then the 'burden' of employing parents has to fall equally on employers of men and women.

[Gingerfish91]

I’m a woman and used to run a small business. It was shift work, evenings and nights As well. The amount of times I had to cover shifts, when I had a Small child myself, due to people not turning up because their child was sick or they couldn’t get anyone to look after them. 99% of the time it was a Night or a weekend shift. I used to try to avoid taking people on who had small children. Male or female!

[Phineyj]

No, but as is evident from this thread, all women potentially face prejudice from this, even if they have no children.

[NailsNeedDoing]

It wouldn’t cut the workforce in half though, women aren’t all pregnant or mothering young children at the same time.