‘I won’t be employing women with children again’

[Everhopefulhev]

AIBU in feeling really wound up by this comment?
I’ve just had to quit my new job as my childcare arrangement fell through which is shit for my employer because obviously they could do without having to find someone else. However, whilst talking to my current boss he said ‘I won’t be employing women with children again’ and told me not to take it personally or think he’s a dick for saying it.
Is this just an example of the problems women face in the workplace? Just because I didn’t work out for them they are disqualifying any further woman with a child?
I just find this type of thing infuriating.

Why do we as a society tolerate this? Why aren't these parents who refuse to parent told in no uncertain terms by their families, friends, neighbours, colleagues and bosses that they are a disgrace? Why don't we as a society fund and back the CSA to collect the maintenance these deadbeats refuse to cough up for their own flesh and blood?

Because women seem to go for these types and are happy to jump into the ex's shoes.
See the threads on here some women are on their 3/4th loser, even knowing the man's past. Presumably they think he will be different with them, lol.

@helloareyouthere

He shouldn't have said that but I get a bit miffed where I work with some women using the old childcare thing to get all the best holidays and stuff - it's like just 'cos my kids are grown up I should let them take easter off Christmas and New Year and just put up with the leftovers

They don't 'use' the old childcare thing. They have 13 weeks when their kids are off school and need someone to be at home with them. Jesus H Christ!

Hardly my problem. If someone takes both Christmas and new year off and easter (when you have the bank holidays) and use childcare as an excuse it's unfair on the rest of us.

There are such things as partners and childminders.

@Justaboy I knew of a business who employed three woman sales persons who all decided to get in the family way within a short time of each other
Are you suggesting they got together and planned it?

Unfortunately it's common. I was (illegally) asked at an interview and I know I'm passed over or was in my 30's. Actually I have adult kids and I have deliberately mentioned it to establish I don't have childcare issues

It's not just men who are like this. I once had a woman tell me in the interview that she wasn't going to employ me because despite being the perfect for for the role, I was a mother and I would have too much time off to look after a child. That was 11 years ago and to date I've had two days off when DS had chickenpox. More fool her. Unfortunately I was too young and naive at the time to know what to do with her silly comments.

If he acts as he says his company will be guilty of sex discrimination which could end up being costly for them

Not necessarily. As I said upthread this is exactly what makes older women more attractive employment prospects. We’re highly experienced and reliable. Having worked with someone who took three lots of maternity leave in five years and completely pissed off all the child free women in the team, this kind of thing doesn’t surprise me.

Small firms I can see the point. Relative deliberately only employs woman over the age of 50+ as less likely to.have childcare problems

You're right because I wouldn't have chose to have a child with one 🤷‍♀️ we all know deep down what our partners are like - it's rare they hide their true colours to the extent it's such a surprise after children come along

That’s such a dickhead thing to say

@WorraLiberty

I don't think that's particularly normal SimonJT

Plus it can be easily rectified by asking them to make a note on the form, to definitely contact the first number.

Done that multiple times, it also happened at each of the nurseries he attended. There was a thread on here a while ago where multiple parents had experienced schools doing this when the main contact was male.

To be honest at least he had the guts to say it. I know lots of people who take this view but don’t say it aloud obviously.

Such a shame, but until men start stepping g up to the plate and doing half the care that’s the way it will remain.

@ivfdreaming you are SO rude, and extremely naive.

OP, I am sorry your boss was such a dick, it was not an acceptable comment. I hope you are okay . Also sorry there are quite so many posters that think that shit cannot happen to them

As I said upthread this is exactly what makes older women more attractive employment prospects. We’re highly experienced and reliable. Having worked with someone who took three lots of maternity leave in five years and completely pissed off all the child free women in the team, this kind of thing doesn’t surprise me. older women are very likely to have to take time off caring for elderly parents at some point even people without children have parents.

Even if they were paying you 37 hours at minimum wage (about £16500 a year) and you were paying £900 a month childcare. Universal credits would pay you £200 a week even if you lived in a mortgaged property according to entitled to

Universal credits would pay you £200 a week
And if they weren't paying her minimum wage or so, there would be no entitlement to the universal credit
Childcare costs are a problem for mid-earning single parents, where it is not subsidised.

As an employer myself and a mother of 2 I see both sides. I think the fact you can't understand the frustration of your employer and instead have come on here to moan about how hard done by you are is a bit of a shame. Even if the situation is unsolvable and there's nothing you can do you could still be empathetic to his position as he should be to yours. It's a difficult situation. When I went back to work after my kids I basically covered my costs and nothing more but I wanted to work my way up and not just end my career. I do understand that's not a position everyone can take if they don't earn enough to cover costs and break even. I guess just try to be understanding and let it go. You've both lost out in this situation

@CelestialSpanking

You're right because I wouldn't have chose to have a child with one 🤷‍♀️ we all know deep down what our partners are like - it's rare they hide their true colours to the extent it's such a surprise after children come along

That’s such a dickhead thing to say

It is, but it's also true. There isn't a single woman I know whose ex is a shit father that I fully didn’t expect them to be a shit father when they first announced they were pregnant. The woman herself is always super shocked though. Nobody else is. We'll pretend we are for her benefit, but we're not. And deep down, I don't think she is either, it's just always easier to act all 'omg, who knew? Certainly not me. Isn't fate a bitch?' Rather then admit that you made a shitty choice with even shitter consequences.

I can see both frustrated sides, unfortunately.

@lukasiak
Think of the opposite scenario. Don't you have friends who had a "perfect" marriage, and then it all got crashing down, totally unexpectedly, in a single day?
I certainly know a couple cases where I still can't help thinking "but why?"

@Justaboy I knew of a business who employed three woman sales persons who all decided to get in the family way within a short time of each other
Are you suggesting they got together and planned it?

No, no suggestions at all, its just what happened..

@sleepyhead

As he's not allowed to ask about children in applications or interviews I wonder how he's planning on implementing that little breach of equality law?

What a twat.

I wouldn't be surprised if he does ask. I went to a job interview after I finished college 15 years ago where the interviewer(a man) asked if I planned on having children.

@katy1213

As so many women allow the fathers of their children to opt out of any responsibility, I can understand employers not wanting to be lumbered.

Do you have a way of stopping it? I'd like to read it.

out loud but women who always take full responsibility for childcare, rather than seeing it as an equal responsibility with the father are a pain as employees.

This needs sorting structurally not at the individual level.

1. Women more likely to be lone parent
2. More likely to be in lower paid job so when shit hits fan they give up for family
3. Bottom is just about to fall out of the childcare market in the U.K.

Fund good quality childcare and make shared parental leave attractive

Stop selling women down the river for structural factors that disproportionately affect them. Economies need kids to be born

Is this just an example of the problems women face in the workplace?

Unfortunately yes, it is - and it's not going to get any better now there are so many unemployed who'll be only too ready to fill the gaps

It stinks that women are discriminated against, but some really don't help themselves. Employers hear the demands for at least 3 months more paid ML because baby groups have been missed, they note the endless insistence from partnered mums that dad can't possibly help, they experience the pre-Covid times when WFH-ers promise to sort child care but don't, and they make their own choices whether they're supposed to or not

People (women in this case) sometimes have lower standards than they should and often those women don’t even realise their standards are actually low. It’s what they expect because that’s the examples they’ve seen growing up. Sometimes. I include myself in that. My ex was abusive, raped many times over the years as well as abusing me in other ways. Even after I left him the final time for the first month after I wouldn’t let anyone call him a shit father. I couldn’t accept that. Took a social worker to tell me very firmly that ex is a terrible father.

Anyway.... it’s a shit thing of the OP’s boss to say and what the smug poster above said is also a shit thing to say. The child is here, you can’t take them back so the mother has to get on with it best she can because the “father” won’t bother by the sound of it. So why put the boot in like that by telling OP it’s her fault for choosing a shit dad for her kid?

@Tomorrowisanewday

Or was it the husbands who took advantage of the fact that they had wives to look after the little details of their lives so they didn't have to?

You have no idea how difficult those men may have made it for the women you employed to delegate their share the responsibility of childcare.

I have an old friend, now divorced, whose useless H literally presided over the burning down of their home because he completely failed to supervise his own 4 and 6 year old children during a week when his wife was in hospital. An egregious example, but there are men out there who are expert piss takers and women who come home from a day's work to a scene that looks like a home where the buffalo roam, children unfed, unkempt, no plans for an evening meal, doctor and dentist appointments missed, piles of washing up in the sink, piles of laundry undone.