To think extroverts are strangely viewed.

[Thewheelsfelloffthebus]

Something I’ve noticed recently - it seems to be a “thing” to declare yourself as an introvert. Additionally I’ve been bombarded with ads on Facebook etc that are tagged “for introverts” - for example “learn how to do x even though you’re an introvert”.

It’s as though extraverts are unseemly or something. Now I know that generally this type of post will bring out a million introverts (funnily enough never the extroverts).

As an introvert, the only thing that raises as many alarms in me as someone saying 'I'm an introvert' is someone saying 'I'm an empath.'

These are not things anyone else ever needs to know. Unless you have other issues that mean you need external validation.

Am starting to think that an attention seeker is an attention seeker. Whether it’s dressed up ad extroverts it introverts

Attention seekers come in all forms. Yes there are some who use “I’m an introvert” as a way of thinking they are special or more superior. I suppose the extrovert equivalent would be someone who is very “hee hee I’m soooo crazy! Absolutely mad, that’s me haha! I’m like marmite, you either love me or you hate me and I’m mad as a box of frogs LOL!”

We’ve all known one or two like that. But that doesn’t mean all extroverts are like that, just as not all introverts are naval gazers with a superiority complex. Insufferable twats come in all forms

As an introvert, the only thing that raises as many alarms in me as someone saying 'I'm an introvert' is someone saying 'I'm an empath.'

Oh my yes - or, and I think I mentioned this one upthread, 'highly sensitive person', ie I'm just so caring and tuned into others that I have to tell people this constantly in a way that somehow makes everything about me.

Completely agree @MoonBabysMagicalKalimba that the problem isn't people who just are introverted, who are as likely to be lovely or not lovely as anybody else, it's people who self-declare it and wear it as a badge. But, to be fair, the OP was quite clear that it was directed at the latter, not the former.

I agree with it's a bit of a backlash against the widely held view that being an introvert is somehow 'less'.

How great it is for children and young adults to be growing up knowing that is a perfectly ok way to be

It certainly wasn’t that way growing up for myself

Again with the marginalised victim talk.

Again with the marginalised victim talk.

Of course, if it didn't happen to you then it didn't happen full stop.

It’s always been a bit socially desirable to say you’re shy or introverted. Not sure why.

@Fieldofgreycorn

It’s always been a bit socially desirable to say you’re shy or introverted. Not sure why.

Really? I've never noticed that. Being extroverted seems to be the preferred personality type.

Life is set up to suit extroverts.

Education and work...they both depend on a lot of collaboration and sitting in close proximity to others (in general) and for introverts that's a MASSIVE challenge.

School was awful for me because it was so crowded and loud. I'm not on the spectrum I just don't like crowded rooms and loud voices.

I work better alone.

I find it so baffling that people say education is set up for extroverts. Work clearly depends on what you do (I've never personally had a job that wasn't mostly quiet, solo work but then that was a choice I deliberately made - I'd hate, say, a sales role and have never done one) but in education almost all assessment is individual, the older you get the more and more of your workload is private study, by secondary quiet work is the norm most of the time. Of course there are disruptive kids in many schools, but that's not an introvert/extrovert problem, that's annoying for all pupils who want to get on with their work and do well. Once you get to university for most courses the bit where you're expected to talk with other people is a few hours a week. Do people really think that all group work, class presentations etc should be eliminated?

It’s always been a bit socially desirable to say you’re shy or introverted. Not sure why

That has certainly never been my experience!

Talking about being treated like you're inferior due to being an introvert does not mean you're acting the marginalised victim, you're simply discussing your experience. Just as an extrovert friend of mine would say people assume she is full of confidence and look to her to take the lead in social situations when actually she feels just as anxious as everyone else.

I completely agree with other PPs that attention seeking twats are attention seeking twats, whatever their personality type.

Hardback primary schools encourage shared tables and secondaries do too. Or at least mine did.

I agree that 'face the front in rows' had gone (though obviously now it's back!) but I've never experienced a school where that meant the children weren't expected to work largely quietly and alone - admittedly my experience is all secondary schools, so I had a (very) quick look for research on group work in primary schools and found that the research consensus seems to be that pupils sit in groups but rarely work as groups, though I couldn't find anything in my 15 minute search that put a number on it (and it should be acknowledged that the research all seemed to start from the premise that more group work would be a good thing, which I know most on this thread would contest!)

but in education almost all assessment is individual, the older you get the more and more of your workload is private study, by secondary quiet work is the norm most of the time

Not my experience at all, especially secondary. We were in groups working as groups in many practical subjects, such as cooking, tech, science, etc quite often, and obviously games/pe was heavily weighted towards team sports. Even in humanities, we'd often have to work in pairs on projects. I used to love Maths and English because they were the only subjects where paired/team work didn't happen and English in particular because we had an "old school" English teacher whose classrooms had single desks in traditional rows looking forward. Most other classrooms had desks arranged in groups/clusters which just caused poor behaviour etc.

Yeah in my experience (from doing a BA degree and a masters in two separate places, eight years apart) there's heavy emphasis on group work. I absolutely hated it as it disadvantaged the hardworking students and gave the ones who couldn't be bothered a free pass. We also had to do lots of presentations which I found really challenging, and yet I've never had to do one in a work environment.

Obviously we're all just talking anecdotally here but I've lectured in a humanities subject at three UK universities and now work in policy and academic quality at another one, and they've all had policies limiting group work to somewhere between 10-20% of module marks, and had degree algorithms which heavily weighted individual and independent pieces of work (e.g. dissertations). Even in performance subjects students have to have individual marks not group ones, though obviously it's hard to put on a play without collaborating and I hope no one applies for a drama degree without knowing that!

In my experience it is true that the teaching at universities includes a lot of group discussion - since all pedagogical research consistently shows how ineffective lectures are as a way of teaching, there is more and more shifting towards seminar style. That still only takes up a small amount of most students' week, though; most of their time should be spent on private study.

Student feedback, incidentally, is consistently that most students want more group projects, mostly because being asked for an example of when you've worked in a team is such a classic interview question and so they want some good examples for that.

I think most students want group projects because most people like working in a group. But not introverts.

@FortunesFave

Life is set up to suit extroverts.

Education and work...they both depend on a lot of collaboration and sitting in close proximity to others (in general) and for introverts that's a MASSIVE challenge.

School was awful for me because it was so crowded and loud. I'm not on the spectrum I just don't like crowded rooms and loud voices.

I work better alone.

Same. I think before lockdown it was a case of getting on with it and suffering in silence. The workplace is for extroverts unless you can find a very niche job. It's their world and we've had to adapt as best we can.

However wfh has shown it doesn't have to be.

Nope they're possibly viewed. Vast majority of big bosses and world leaders etc are extroverts.

Wish I was more extroverted. Socialising exhausts me. The thought of an impromptu social event after a tough week stresses me out.

*positively viewed.

DD hates group projects because she ends up doing all the work. She nearly failed one GCSE because the other girl in her group of two didn't pull her weight, and she lost the letter from the prime minister. Luckily DD aced the exam, and her grade was pulled up from a D to a B.

@MoonBabysMagicalKalimba

The world is geared up towards extroverts and always has been. It’s viewed as the ideal way to be, and introversion is a flaw that needs to be fixed.

Every school report and parents evening for an introverted child normally focuses on how the child needs to speak up more, work better in groups, and basically be more extroverted. Why? Introverts work just as well as extroverts, just in a very different way.

The world needs both to function well, but up until recently introversion has always been viewed as a character flaw that needs fixing. This is slowly beginning to change, which surely can only be a good thing?

This exactly