Asked to put preferred pronouns on email signature

[Ermokthen]

Just had an email from team leader following a diversity workshop that she’d like us all to put our preferred pronouns on our email signatures, as this was a suggested take home action.

Other members of team already responded, some enthusiastically, others clearly not bothered and just going along with team leader.

I really don’t want to do this and have no idea how to respond without being targeted as any number of negative things. Help please...

But just so I can sense check - aibu not to want to put she/her etc after my (very feminine and not to be confused otherwise) name on my email signature?

Hmm actually on the previous page.

Also, it's personal information, which my employer has no right to. Seeking personal information when there is no actual reason, is pretty dodgy. After all my sexuality, marital status, whether I have children etc. aren't their business. Why are my pronouns?

Is there a privacy/personal information reason I can refuse?

My advice is ignore it but if pushed I would say - I am not comfortable declaring my sex/gender. I am alert to unconscious bias in the workplace.

This

It’s true that testosterone has a very masculinising effect.

Which is one reason why those whose bodies have been shaped by testosterone since birth (well, since before birth in fact) tend to be instantly recognisable as male, unless those bodies are modified by an awful lot of surgery (including Facial Feminisation Surgery, FFS) and constant use of synthetic hormones.

Male privilege is also instantly recognisable, and tends to persist, including in those individuals who’ve spent a fortune on surgery and hormones, as above.

The point is that while some female people may pass quite convincingly as male, it’s not men’s rights that are under attack here. It’s not men who already suffer from sex discrimination and (sex-based) stereotype threat. Biologically female people, as I said above, cannot inherit under primogeniture in the UK, even if they have a GRC, no matter how well they pass.

Because those who hold the power know full well that female people do not have equal status to male people in the world that we live in, and they know that female people never actually become male people.

Male people conning themselves and the world that the word “woman“ is an empty, meaningless concept just waiting to be colonised and filled by any male who “identifies as a woman” though? Sure, that’s fine. Knock yourselves out. Don’t forget to refer to them as she/her, everybody! #bekind!

That's odd, I've never seen that at the end of an email.

'You'd be surprised - especially with those who transition from female to male. A couple of years of testosterone and the beard + broken voice invariably mean that the vast majority of FTMs pass very well. You'd have to really know what you were looking for, and then then you might not be totally certain if they were FTM or had been born male.'

So if a person has a male name and looks like a man, why the need for pronouns on an email?

Who does this actually help?

AlwaysLatte got my first one the other day.

Oh and have been in offices with visitor toilets with a notice about using whichever etc outside the door.

I have a colleague who does this (let’s call him James), but thankfully it hasn’t caught on yet. Below James’ email signature are the words “my pronouns are he/him”. When replying to one of his emails, I nearly wrote “Dear him”.

I wonder why James cares which pronouns people use when he isn’t around? If we were in a meeting together and I had had to refer to James, I hope I would remember my manners and refer to him by name.

If James signed off his emails as, say, Dr Jim Smith or Ms Jaime Smith, then that would make perfect sense to me, and I’d use his (or her) preferred name. I’d use James’ preferred pronouns too, but he’d probably never know if I did or not.

If someone asks me what gender I identify as, I hear, "what stereotype would you like me to assign to your mind?"

The answer is, "None of them."

I am perceived as female, and my life has been impacted on because of that, because I bleed monthly, and gestated/birthed babies, and because people assumed I must have a certain brain/mind because of my body.

Any body can have any mind. If we as a society truly supported this, there would be no such thing as gender. This is what I support.

What I find really interesting about this is that how women are referred to/ named has been a massive feminist issue for yonks.

So many threads on here a few years back about women being mis-named.

EG
Mum has different surname to children. School calling her Mrs kids surname instead of ms other name, despite having put ms other name on all forms, reminding them etc

Women being first applicant on things like mortgages, joint bank accounts. Doing all the paperwork and admin and etc. Higher earners. Things come through with bloke first.

Women being told that Ms is a title for divorced women and what's their previous surname. And if there isn't one, told they can't be ms.

Being sent stuff by Family to Mr and Mrs his first name his surname

And etc so many examples

The answers were always a mix of, yes that's shit ask them to change it and, why are you bothered? It's completely trivial/ it's tradition. And this is from women.

Add into that the issues many women have always had with ladies... A very loaded term.

Essentially this stuff was all trivial. Shut up.

Yet in what 3 or so years, the trans rights people are getting people to change some fundamentals of speech. And big companies are on board.

TFL have stopped saying ladies and gentlemen, not because it pissed a lot of women off, but out of respect for non binary people. Done, quick as a flash.

Women have been mis-named for ages and we were told to stop being petty and what's the problem.

This gets much bigger changes in superquick.

Like I say. Interesting.

@Dogsaresomucheasier

I have one of those Christian names that could be male or female. People either know which I am or it should not influence how they respond to me. Point that out to your team leader?

Careful, you'll get all the woke telling you you can't have Christian names any more.

Feminists would have been natural massive allies.

Gender role = repressive bollocks.
It's shit to be called a name you're not because society overrules who you are
Etc etc

But it's not turned out like that.
Why?
I have a few thoughts.

@User87471643901065319

I wouldn't have a problem in letting people know how I wish to be referred. Why would anyone?

Writing the name you wish to be known as is enough! So, for emailing parents (school), I'd put Mrs Soon For colleagues I work with in person I'd put my forename For colleagues I work with via email or phone I'd put first and surname initially then maybe just first name if we had a lot of contact. For friends I'd put forename followed by x.

Totally no need to put pretentious pronouns!

Thing is the only reason for it is to flush out GC women. I can't see any other reason.

What does pips bounce put? How are colleagues supposed to refer to them when they aren't there? What a massive cognitive overhead.

I'd say go they/ them across the board. I've got no problem with that at all.

Why fight it at work? I would just go along, is it really hurting you? look at the economy, do you really want to be labeled problematic?

Either do it, or just don't do it, if someone asks i would just say I forgot, but probably no one will say anything.

I wouldn't make a big statement, it will not do you any favors.

Your boss needs to catch herself on - insisting on pronoun announcements is oppressive.

You'd be surprised - especially with those who transition from female to male. A couple of years of testosterone and the beard + broken voice invariably mean that the vast majority of FTMs pass very well. You'd have to really know what you were looking for, and then then you might not be totally certain if they were FTM or had been born male.
Only for those transmen who started off as very tall women. The transman i know is 5ft 4 and despite deep voice and lots of body/facial hair it is so unusual for 20 something males to be that short that it is evident within seconds.

@EyesOpening

She was born with a female body and identified as female - so she is the very definition of a cisgender woman.

I was born with a female body and am still female, I very much DON'T identify with CIS

I'm not cis either. I'm female. Use cis to describe yourself if you must but not on me.

@deFleury

Your boss needs to catch herself on - insisting on pronoun announcements is oppressive.

You'd be surprised - especially with those who transition from female to male. A couple of years of testosterone and the beard + broken voice invariably mean that the vast majority of FTMs pass very well. You'd have to really know what you were looking for, and then then you might not be totally certain if they were FTM or had been born male.
Only for those transmen who started off as very tall women. The transman i know is 5ft 4 and despite deep voice and lots of body/facial hair it is so unusual for 20 something males to be that short that it is evident within seconds.

There are several men (including my own DF) in my family who are under 5'4".

I can assure that no one has ever questioned their gender identity or chromosomes.

Do you assume all short men with facial hair were born female? Utterly bizarre.

I receive emails from an organization that encourages people to state their pronouns underneath their name and title.

Bur, I’ve just scrolled through a few messages and realized that not everyone there does it- so I’m assuming it’s optional.

If you don’t want to do it, just state that you’re not comfortable and leave it at that.

I wouldn’t want to because it’s a load of codswallop.

You could confuse them a bit:
"Surname Family Name. He/Him on emails. She/her on the phone. Xe/Xir in person. They/Them on smoke signals"

Why fight it at work? I would just go along, is it really hurting you? look at the economy, do you really want to be labeled problematic
Yes, Vagina-having person, why would you be problematic? Why would you even have opinions and principles? And if he wants to pinch your arse a little, why not? have you seen the economy? Shut up and endure, you non-entity.

I'd ignore their request.

I don’t see how this harms anyone and it would make some awkward moments avoidable. Don’t see how it’s that different to the societal expectation that we use titles to signify gender (Mr/Ms).

*There are several men (including my own DF) in my family who are under 5'4".

I can assure that no one has ever questioned their gender identity or chromosomes.

Do you assume all short men with facial hair were born female? Utterly bizarre.*

I was replying to a point made that it is difficult to recognise transmen as such, and they “pass” (not a term I like) incredibly easily because of the effects of testosterone. It isn’t my experience - because of height. I don’t go around thinking about it, so no I don’t assume all short men I meet are transmen of course. But in the case of that young person, I didn’t know that they (acquaintance of DS’s) were a transman but I found it immediately obvious because of the stature (and tiny feet). I’ve since seen videos they’ve made where they’ve had lots of comments about how well they “pass” - but their height wasn’t clear on screen.

Also, I specified “20 something” - Whilst there are teenagers and older men who are below 5’ 4 it really is unusual in fully grown young European men, who are taller than older generations.