To not necessarily want a well-behaved child?

[OneStepAheadOfTheToddler]

Ok, so the title of this thread is perhaps a little more controversial than I was intending it to be.

I was a well-behaved child. Everyone always complimented my parents on how my siblings and I behaved. We were quiet, shy, always stayed by their side, never ran away to explore and, if we ever did anything to show them up, were made to feel so guilty and ashamed about it that we never did it ever again. We hated shouting and raised voices and couldn't bear to disappoint our parents. We would never have dreamt about joining in with the naughty kids at school and weren't very good at making friends, although this is something that we've all got better at as we got older and discovered that actually we do like to enjoy ourselves after all . I was speaking to MIL the other day and she said it was exactly the same for her and her sisters; they wouldn't say boo to a goose, lived in fear of their parents' anger, didn't have much fun and had very little confidence or self-belief. In both cases, our parents could take us anywhere.

DS is not a well-behaved child. He's a sweet, funny toddler who never bites or hits. But he has ants in his pants, can't sit still for more than two minutes, loves doing naughty things for a reaction and yelling and telling off doesn't seem to have any impact. He's not afraid of anything. Whenever we go anywhere, he is off exploring in a trice. He is very sociable, loves other children and will always join in with any game that is going on. We stopped going to toddler groups for a bit since he was always the leader of the 'naughty boys' (with the occasional girl) who would run around the room in circles rather than listening to the lovely music teacher and it was too embarrassing. I have never been complimented on his behaviour and probably never will be. Though apparently he behaves much better in nursery and they're very fond of him. But I can't take him anywhere.

Now, I know there is a balance to be struck - we need to be firmer with DS whereas our parents probably went too far in the other direction. But the holy grail on here seems to be "Oh yes, I can take my children out for a 3 course meal in a Michelin-starred restaurant and they behave perfectly". Is it personality or parenting? And are parents of well-behaved children concerned that their children might struggle later on in life, as we did? If not, because your children are that perfect blend of well-behaved and confident, how have you achieved this? What tips can you give me?

I think also some conflict avoidance. I moved all the sharp and breakable things out of reach because otherwise I'd just spend all my time getting stressed and shouting at DD. I also try to be careful not to take any potential noisy toys where they might be a problem. You can't make them perfect straight away.

I really don't get why you persist with a music class that he doesn't enjoy! Are you going for your own benefit?

Well, we've stopped now (obviously, due to lockdown). Actually, one of the reasons we kept going was because, when he wasn't running around causing chaos, DS was one of the few children who was actually actively responding to the absolutely lovely teacher (who he adored) and singing the songs and doing the dances (as opposed to just sitting on parents' laps). She assured us that she didn't mind the bad behaviour and in the end he would improve, but I felt it wasn't fair on the class to keep going.

Well if very few of the kids were joining in perhaps she wasn't making it engaging enough?
When more kids are being disruptive you have to realise something isn't working!

That's why I've altered lessons half way through. When even the good kids aren't focussed you know you're getting it wrong!

Amazing, they never had a tantrum! Is it personality or excellent parenting? If parenting, what's your secret? Silly me, I thought all toddlers had tantrums

None of my dd's ever had a tantrum either. So not all toddlers have tantrums. Maybe I was just lucky. I did tend to engage with them a lot and there was little technology and no mobile phones to distract my attention. They certainly weren't cowed into good behaviour. They were just generally happy.

You (and your parents) probably dont remember what you were like as a toddler. Few children are so compliant before the age of 4 or 5, lots are by 6 or 7. Also while you cant badge young children, based solely on gender, I've seen more wild tearaway little boys than girls.

Sadly in our local park a child going down collided with the special one climbing up and broke both his legs.
Idiot parents. Its annoying, dangerous and antisocial.

Yes, idiot parents for intervening and stopping two children from being on the slide at the same time. Both sets of parents were at fault.

You have to parent the child you have.
DS1 was a very tantrummy toddler... he was diagnosed with ASD at 8.
DS2 is just a high energy, sporty child.

DS1 tries hard at school despite the frustration of several SNs. He can get fidgety as he tries to focus his energy into parying concentration.

DS2 is more likely to be told off for being ditzy and daydreaming.
I don't have to fear the wrath of teachers or parents at pick-up time.

DS2 did result in the removal of the ball pit from the 2-3 room at nursery after rapidly shooting them through the 6ft window into the carpark... the room manager was trying not to laugh when she told me.

Some children are naturally docile and will be "good" for any parent. Some require more experimenting and specific strategies.

As a teacher, I liked children with clear personalities including the ones that bumbled into mishaps (not the outright don't give a fuck types) a willingness to accept their errors went a long way too. Sadly as a teacher with little contact time per class and hundreds of pupils to know per year. About 35-36 teaching hours per year wasn't adequate to know the quiet, very meek, middling and compliant types.
At least my DCs are memorable... even if it is for complicated sagas involving shoes on the right feet and abandoned sports kits...

Both sets of parents were at fault

How? If my child was climbing up the slide and another kids came down and broke her leg then it would be tough shit for her, she was the one in the wrong. It’s on my the idiot parents that let their kids misbehave in public then blame the other kids.

Bloody hell, broken legs, that must have been nasty.

I remember seeing a child get kicked in the face climbing up a slide. In hindsight I don't think she was seriously hurt, nosebleed and a bit of a freak out but I was only small myself and it was really upsetting.

Its not equally the fault of both parents at all.

I also think often people think a child is behaving "badly" but their expectations of the child are not reasonable for age. Eg expecting very young children to sit quietly for long periods is not reasonable.

Dd1 was always the one running off during baby groups to play with the buggies or the door or run around like a loon. She loves exploring and being outside and everywhere we go has to find something to climb. She can also sit in a restaurant for a 2 course meal (3 would likely be pushing it!) and does not get in other people's way when off exploring. She's 7 now and couldn't do that at 2 so dh used to take her outside to play whilst we waited but our meal then she was fine.

I agree that I wouldn't want a really quiet child that didn't like to run around and be themselves but I don't agree that children who do so are misbehaving. I think it's a blend of personality and parenting. When we say something to our dd's we mean it. After leaving places a few times when we warned them we would, skipping desert when we threatened it, etc they learnt quickly.

We try to never say anything that we won't follow through with. I hate hearing parents saying we're going to leave, you won't get ice cream, no iPad, etc etc knowing the whole time it's an empty threat, then wonder why their kids run rings around them. We also play good cop bad cop a lot although I seem to be bad cop rather a lot

This discussion has been very interesting. FWIW, I agree with a lot of what albatrossdreams wrote. Sometimes people are too quick to label as "naughty" behaviour that is developmentally appropriate. The contemporary popularity of groups and classes for toddlers is an example of placing tiny tots in situations that are not suitable and then reacting negatively when the children don't meet unreasonable expectations. Yes, some toddlers love those classes. But others really can't cope. Not because they are naughty, but because they haven't reached the stage when they can listen quietly and follow instructions. (The early start of formal school in the UK presents similar issues and really should be rethought, but that's probably a topic for another day.)

Similarly, many parents decide that for a certain period of time, it just isn't reasonable to expect their toddlers to sit through a meal in a restaurant. So they choose not to eat out for a while. That isn't a failure, it's just realistic for a lot of parents.

So I think it's important to work out what sort of behaviour springs from a child's innate desire to supply cause and witness effect, what is a bid for attention, what is poor impulse control, etc. I definitely agree with PPs that being "well-behaved" vs. "naughty" doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. It really doesn't have to be the case that quiet=cowed or submissive and boisterous=confident or self-assured.

Both sets of parents were at fault

No, the kid misusing the equipment (climbing the slide) is in the wrong, together with parents allowing them to do so.

Similarly, many parents decide that for a certain period of time, it just isn't reasonable to expect their toddlers to sit through a meal in a restaurant. So they choose not to eat out for a while. That isn't a failure, it's just realistic for a lot of parents.

This. DH & I have made this call and it's no biggy, if we want a meal out we get a sitter.

I think I was about 7 before my parents risked taking me to a restaurant without a play area. Bizarrely DD is quite good at eating out, don't know where she gets it from.

Your parents were too strict and inhibited your childhood
You may overcompensate by being too lenient with your own child
All or nothing / shades of grey ....
Time to parent your son not be dwelling on your own lacking childhood 😊

Your child is only 2, you're massively overthinking this op.
Just stick with your boundary's but I wouldn't bother with time out for a 2yo. Distraction is better.
When they're 3 and over you can start to reason with them a little more.

Well one of the slide rules I taught my children is that you dont set off down the slide if there is anyone still on it. Seen quite a lot of toddlers sent flying by some over-enthusiastic child who'd got to the top and forgot to wait.

not all toddlers have tantrums

My son didn't (once only when I unceremoniously removed him from a toy shop so he may have had a point). Nothing at all to do with my amazing "parenting" - everything to do with the fact that he was an easy toddler.

People don't have easy kids because they are superior parents, they are just lucky, and so was I (until he got older ha ha but he's been an ok teen, too, it was the inbetween bit!)

@JizzPigeon22

Both sets of parents were at fault

How? If my child was climbing up the slide and another kids came down and broke her leg then it would be tough shit for her, she was the one in the wrong. It’s on my the idiot parents that let their kids misbehave in public then blame the other kids.

Totally- the parent of the child climbing up was in the wrong. Of course their poor "spirited" darling got hurt, everyone elses fault.🙄

I'd always get my toddler straight off the slide if she was dawdling and she is learning not to climb slides or hang around the bottom because I keep telling her it's not safe. I figured it was best to get her out of that habit from the start because I can't control the other kids around her.

@JizzPigeon22

Both sets of parents were at fault

How? If my child was climbing up the slide and another kids came down and broke her leg then it would be tough shit for her, she was the one in the wrong. It’s on my the idiot parents that let their kids misbehave in public then blame the other kids.

It's a fairly idiotic parent who lets their child go down a slide when they can see another child is climbing up it. Tough shit for your child for having a parent stupid enough not to stop her from going down the slide when they could see it was likely to cause an injury.

If you are driving and see somebody jump a red light do you keep going knowing that you are going to hit their car because they shouldn't have jumped the red light?

Hmm, going to go against the flow here.

What you describe could have been my eldest as a toddler. She was always up to something. Tried doing those musical classes etc but had to stop because she was a free spirit and did her own thing. She had an excess of energy. At one point I did wonder if she had adhd. But she channelled it through gymnastics, and training over 20 hours a week kept her and us sane. Throughout it all, she was strong willed, defiant at times, and always knew her own mind. Of course, we disciplined her when needed and had many many fights with her.

She's now an older teen and we're finally coming through the other side, and I really can see the benefits of having a strong minded, daughter. Only this week, she was at a friend's house and called to be picked up because the friends were drinking themselves to oblivion and she thought it stupid. In the past, she told another boy he looked an idiot when he was trying to show off about vaping.

She's still strong minded, a free spirit and knows her own mind, but these days it's often her friends that she's saying no to, not us!

So hang in there... with clear boundaries and channelling that independence it can work out for the best!