To not necessarily want a well-behaved child?

[OneStepAheadOfTheToddler]

Ok, so the title of this thread is perhaps a little more controversial than I was intending it to be.

I was a well-behaved child. Everyone always complimented my parents on how my siblings and I behaved. We were quiet, shy, always stayed by their side, never ran away to explore and, if we ever did anything to show them up, were made to feel so guilty and ashamed about it that we never did it ever again. We hated shouting and raised voices and couldn't bear to disappoint our parents. We would never have dreamt about joining in with the naughty kids at school and weren't very good at making friends, although this is something that we've all got better at as we got older and discovered that actually we do like to enjoy ourselves after all . I was speaking to MIL the other day and she said it was exactly the same for her and her sisters; they wouldn't say boo to a goose, lived in fear of their parents' anger, didn't have much fun and had very little confidence or self-belief. In both cases, our parents could take us anywhere.

DS is not a well-behaved child. He's a sweet, funny toddler who never bites or hits. But he has ants in his pants, can't sit still for more than two minutes, loves doing naughty things for a reaction and yelling and telling off doesn't seem to have any impact. He's not afraid of anything. Whenever we go anywhere, he is off exploring in a trice. He is very sociable, loves other children and will always join in with any game that is going on. We stopped going to toddler groups for a bit since he was always the leader of the 'naughty boys' (with the occasional girl) who would run around the room in circles rather than listening to the lovely music teacher and it was too embarrassing. I have never been complimented on his behaviour and probably never will be. Though apparently he behaves much better in nursery and they're very fond of him. But I can't take him anywhere.

Now, I know there is a balance to be struck - we need to be firmer with DS whereas our parents probably went too far in the other direction. But the holy grail on here seems to be "Oh yes, I can take my children out for a 3 course meal in a Michelin-starred restaurant and they behave perfectly". Is it personality or parenting? And are parents of well-behaved children concerned that their children might struggle later on in life, as we did? If not, because your children are that perfect blend of well-behaved and confident, how have you achieved this? What tips can you give me?

she doesn't have to put anyone else's feelings, male or female, ahead of her own in the choices she makes in life.

That's a horrible lesson, certainly you don't want to teach a child that they should always put others feelings ahead of their own, but sometimes it's important if you want friendships, and not to raise a spoiled brat. It doesn't have to be one or the other, a middleground is surely better.

I always wanted DD to have ‘character’, be chatty, confident, engaging etc.
She was, from quite a young age.
BUT I could take her anywhere, she behaved, in shops, cafes, at important appointments.
I only ever needed to give her ‘the look’ if she started getting too ‘annoying’ in certain situations.
It was a mixture of good luck and starting early with ‘appropriate behaviour’ in certain situations.

The biggest endorsement is when your child is invited along by other families on holiday without you as company for their child.

Being easy going, thoughtful of others and pleasant to be around is a massive life advantage. Some parents need to focus on this rather than endless classes - would do their kids far more favours in life in the long run.

I always wanted DD to have ‘character’, be chatty, confident, engaging etc.

Interesting that you attach those values to having "character".

These traits can be easily learned, and are often displayed by vacuous people.

@MsTSwift

The biggest endorsement is when your child is invited along by other families on holiday without you as company for their child.

Being easy going, thoughtful of others and pleasant to be around is a massive life advantage. Some parents need to focus on this rather than endless classes - would do their kids far more favours in life in the long run.

I think that's a rare occurrence nowadays, I doubt most parents even consider inviting another child along on holiday.

Actually we straying onto social skills (cringe term but still) which come naturally to some kids but do need to taught - though maybe not at 2!

Having nice manners and the ability to start conversations with your peers and adults in a low key engaging way is again a massive advantage. I used to eyeroll my mother as a kid who was very hot on this ((especially as my sister was a shy child) and quite strict but actually have much to thank her for having good social skills has got my sisters and I much much further in life than we would otherwise have got. Stellar parenting!

That's a horrible lesson, certainly you don't want to teach a child that they should always put others feelings ahead of their own, but sometimes it's important if you want friendships, and not to raise a spoiled brat. It doesn't have to be one or the other, a middleground is surely better.

I said in her life choices not in her day-to-day actions. Too many women (myself included) subordinate what they want to what others want when making important life decisions.

Also in other decisions as well... I remember as a child being asked if I'd "mind" sharing a room with the difficult girl on a school trip since I was so 'good' and 'helpful'. I said no, of course not, and ended up having a miserable trip babysitting her with my friends all in a different room. I wished I hadn't gone at all and was so happy to come home to my family.

I'm with you OP. I look back at my own life and wish I had been more willing to do the unexpected. I was just always so good. Always pleasing others. I am trying to raise my daughters to be respectful of others and of themselves, but to know their own minds I am teaching them to understand and express their emotions, stand up for themselves and seek adventure, be a bit cheeky and have fun. I want them to be compassionate and adventurous, determined and respectful. It's a hard balance to get right but I think it's the best way.

The child who thinks the world does or should revolve around them, their wants and their moods, becomes a miserable child.

I agree. But so does the child who learns that what they want doesn't matter at all.

Another difficult thing - easy going kind “good” child gets lumped with the difficult child who may have issues they can’t help. If you complain you are being mean to the difficult child but then you are hanging your own child out to dry. I have had this issue recently it’s very hard to deal with.

I have had this issue recently it’s very hard to deal with.

In my case, it happened more than once during my school career. I would prefer that my child wasn't so 'good' and 'helpful' that the teachers pick on them to be the sacrificial lamb. It cuts them off from their friends and damages their confidence.

Looking back, the girl in question definitely had issues she couldn't help that needed to be addressed, but not by a child her own age.

I had to wade in in the end dd and another girl were basically unpaid daily support to a child with some mental health issues but it got to the point it was negatively affecting them and they were missing lessons! Very hard though I felt like a total witch. To be fair school acknowledged immediately it wasn’t on. They would have kept going if I hadn’t stepped in though..

@MsTSwift. I'm afraid one of the lessons I've taken from it is that good, helpful people (and children) are often taken advantage of if they don't stick up for themselves.

Are schools still doing that thing where they sit a naughty child next to a well behaved one? It didn't work 20 years ago so why do they think it will work now?

Are schools still doing that thing where they sit a naughty child next to a well behaved one?

Doesn't work to make the naughty child good but is an effective strategy to split up characters within a room.

[quote OneStepAheadOfTheToddler]@MsTSwift. I'm afraid one of the lessons I've taken from it is that good, helpful people (and children) are often taken advantage of if they don't stick up for themselves.[/quote]
Same here @OneStepAheadOfTheToddler and I had to work really hard on myself as an adult to change that. Unfortunately I was about 30 when I finally managed to stop worrying so much about others expectations and put myself first . I’ve always been determined my own dc won’t sacrifice their own needs and preferences for the adult approval of “well behaved” AKA making life easier for someone else.

It’s definitely about balance as pps have said. I’m conscious of raising my dc to have good manners and to be considerate and respectful of others but I want them to know that they are entitled to the same in return. If they don’t get that back or if adults expect them to suck up unfair treatment because they’re “good”, then I absolutely want them to be able to push back or say no. Life as a doormat is no fun!

It's a bloody drag for the good kid though. I always hated it

@SnuggyBuggy

Are schools still doing that thing where they sit a naughty child next to a well behaved one? It didn't work 20 years ago so why do they think it will work now?

I'd say no but only because I don't agree that there is a child in school who is wilfully naughty. There will be children who have issues for whatever reason but there is always a reason for their behaviour. There's a lot of truth in the saying about children needing attention when you feel least like giving it to them.

I wouldn’t be proud of the fact that you can’t take him anywhere!

I wouldn’t be proud of the fact that you can’t take him anywhere!

I'm not . We're working on this.

It's a bloody drag for the good kid though. I always hated it

Although DS has not yet shown any signs of being that child (though I will do my best to stop him becoming the other one....), I agree. If this ever occurs for any child of mine, I will be that parent at the school complaining about my child being given age-inappropriate responsibilities. Because I know the stress it can cause and the long-term effect it can have...Children shouldn't be expected to 'fix' other children.

I think if you equate "naughty" with "cant sit still" then you are immediately dumping a whole lot of young children into the naughty category. Makes no more sense than saying "cant talk in full sentences " is naughty or "can't master a balance bike" is naughty.

There will be children who have issues for whatever reason but there is always a reason for their behaviour.

If you count no boundaries at home as a reason then yes I agree. Not all behaviour is communication, sometimes the kid is just naughty!

@SnuggyBuggy Putting all the characters together is far worse. Believe me I've tried.

I think it’s very easy to have this opinion when your only child is a toddler.

When he’s 6, 7, 8 and still won’t sit down at an activity I’m sure you won’t find it quite so adorable.

What does being "naughty" mean though?

Troublesome behaviour comes in many forms.

I think children need to learn their personal impact on other people at an early age.
Not everyone thinks it is endearing to have a 3 year old charging about, shouting and running roughshod over others.
Even a two year old needs to learn some sensitivity towards others.