Pornhub profit from trafficking of women and girls.

[SmileEachDay]

I’m increasingly frustrated with attitudes to porn on MN - there seem to be 2 main ways people justify it:

1. The liberal feminism defence: “It’s empowering, women are allowed bodily autonomy.

2. I enjoy it, it’s all consensual.

This is obviously bullshit. If you watch porn on a mainstream platform it is very likely that the woman you are watching has been directly trafficked and is being raped. If she hasn’t been, the woman or girl in the next clip may have been. You’re getting your rocks off to the filmed abuse of women and girls.

And that’s before we even start looking at how the commodification of women affects us more generally.

Please read this - it’s really eye opening

@Notthemessiah perfectly put!

I do hope though that you can see past your obvious dislike of all pornography and realise that not all of it is violent or non-consensual, and that many people do enjoy it but would also like to see an end to the abuse and coercion that obviously does go on in too many cases. I think you'll be much more likely to be successful with us on your side.

I think that if you're so self-absorbed that you're more offended by the possibility the OP disapproves of you watching porn than you are that pornhub has been profiting from hosting videos of abducted teenagers, aint nothing gonna get you on-side.

Is there any way to make a porn site ethical? In the wake of “me too” is any work that appears to garner fame ethical, people are used and abused for money and fame in some circles.
Maybe there could be some sort of grading system or some things that people could look out for that shows it’s ethical porn? And by ethical I mean forced into it; by trafficking or rape. Are home videos becoming an issue yet? Although it may have been consensual sex putting it online may not have been.

@PotholeParadise

I do hope though that you can see past your obvious dislike of all pornography and realise that not all of it is violent or non-consensual, and that many people do enjoy it but would also like to see an end to the abuse and coercion that obviously does go on in too many cases. I think you'll be much more likely to be successful with us on your side.

I think that if you're so self-absorbed that you're more offended by the possibility the OP disapproves of you watching porn than you are that pornhub has been profiting from hosting videos of abducted teenagers, aint nothing gonna get you on-side.

Not exactly Sigmund Freud are you....

Things people would rather do than just stop watching Pornhub because of the possibility of viewing the filmed rape and exploited women and girls:

Talk about exploitation in clothing/nail bars/car washes
Take me to task for my tone
Explain that porn can be ethical
Insist that I hate porn because of some “other reason” (which may or may not be prudery)
Give me the names of definitely not exploited women
Complain because they want more porn, from a woman’s perspective
Tell me off for posting in AIBU

Did I miss any?

Op, you have some valid points but the way you type is so condescending and patronising. You'd honestly have more people on your side if you would actually listen and take on board other people's opinions instead of shoving your own down posters throats

“However I also know that making sites responsible for everything they show or for what people post, whether that be Pornhub, Youtube or even Mumsnet, would be extremely worrying for the internet and for our freedoms in general,“

It used to be the case that content providers in traditional formats took some responsibility for that content even when it didn’t originate from them. It still does to some degree in some areas, eg academic journals. I don’t know that I agree with this fetishising of ‘freedom’, in particular when we’re talking about areas where ‘freedom’ of one party is always going to be in direct conflict with the freedom the other. It’s naive. The internet is changing.

https://www.collectiveshout.org/pornstarssspeakout

This made me change my entire attitude to porn involving people (not written/drawn)

Seriously what did you expect when you post a thread about something, that people were just going to read and leave it? Surely the whole point of this is to have a discussion? You can’t be a control freak and think everyone should just nod and agree without a discussion.

It is weird you keep listing things which aren’t exactly to your exact opinion (even though most are actually agreeing with you). No one has complained that they want more porn aimed at females. People have not told you off for posting in AIBU they have simply asked the question because you refuse you accept anyone’s opinions other than your own.

StylishMummy

Awful, awful article.

Never really understand threads like these.

OP will never see the opposing point of view or understand the opposing view

People won’t stop watching porn

OP won’t be happy or satisfied until there is 0 porn

So what’s the point?

YANBU OP, I abhor it. As the mother of 2 girls I think it has a lot to answer for in regards to young men's expectations when they start a sexual relationship. The issue of consent in porn is never raised. I too think that what you see isn't always consensual. I read an account online of a young woman who signed a contract to star in porn films and she said much of what was done to her was not what she'd agreed to. It's astonishing how many people think it's OK. I detest it.

The pornhub apologists make me so sad. I am mother to 2 DS's and 1 DD and the casual nature with which people dismiss your point OP makes me very concerned about what they face in the future.

I think there is maybe an interesting point around the content.

Het porn on the whole focuses on male sexual domination of women.

In countries where women have fewer rights, or there is upheaval or civil war, treating women as sexual objects to be used, traded etc is common.

Is the porn that is fed to Western men a result of a tightening up on treating women in real life as objects?

I think in general TBH men don't care.

On p÷nter website, reviews saying women looked scared, drugged, even passed notes saying please help. They fucked them, gave them poor reviews. Did not report.

Objectification isn't it. The women aren't seen really as people.

I used to watch and stopped after what I wrote about upthread.

Another video. One woman subtly held another woman's hand as she was penetrated. How many men would notice that. And would they care.

I would have thought the fact that kidnapped girls have featured on porn hub would be enough to put anyone off.

Apparently not.

It's grim tbh. Like. What are you even thinking.

@NiceGerbil

I would have thought the fact that kidnapped girls have featured on porn hub would be enough to put anyone off.

Apparently not.

It's grim tbh. Like. What are you even thinking.

Absolutely agree.

I would have thought the fact that kidnapped girls have featured on porn hub would be enough to put anyone off.

TBF, most people I know really sat up when they read the story of Rose Kalembaon the BBC. A poster has linked upthread.

I think a problem with this thread is that the OP came on attacking other Mnetters. That's never a good strategy if you want people to listen. Nor is not proposing a solution.

YANBU. Porn is evil.
I hope my picture works.

Trying again.

Do you use any major search engines Op?

Some porn sites that exploit women, also use adverts generated via Google ad words, etc to monetise their sites.

Therefore, from your definition, using Google (or similar) means that you are contributing to women being exploited and raped.

How can people not see the difference between wanking over someone's rape, and buying a top from Primark that may have been made in a sweatshop.

I'm not enjoying the tourtue of the garment maker when I buy the top. Many off us also don't use nail bars or car washes now we know the staff are mostly modern slaves.

Can people also not see that even if you're watching ethical porn with concenting actresses, if you're watching it on porn hub - you're supporting a platform that hosts child abuse, rape and coerced and trafficked women.

Tbh I was shocked to see they had been providing a platform to child aduse, yet are still running. Shows just how powerful the company is - and how little the authorities actually care about women and children.

You will never stop people watching porn ever. It is male dominated and brings in too much money. So having that attitude is not helping the cause at all.

I find this hard to understand. Before the Internet, porn used to be just for dirty old men and teenage boys. Your average married man didn't have a collection of pornos, at most he may have read playboy or some other mens magazine. Women didn't consume porn at all.

Was the world worse for that. Were people all sexually repressed in the 80s and 90s? Will the world end if we go back to - not having porn of any flavor accessible 24/7?

People talk like they need porn. Why not try your imagination. If you turned your phone off you might discover you still have one.

I think a problem with this thread is that the OP came on attacking other Mnetters

My OP was about my frustration with some attitudes on MN to porn, and specifically to sites like Pornhub.

Mostly I have repeatedly stated that anyone using PH doesn’t know if the woman they are watching is consenting, or being exploited.

I haven’t “attacked” - I’ve just continued to state that.

I’m honestly baffled that anyone would defend it.

It’s interesting that my tone has been identified as the problem. I think the problem is that some people find it very difficult to condemn porn, because they use it. So it’s easier to dismiss, use endless Whataboutery and feel righteously offended because I’m not playing nicely.

Nor is not proposing a solution

My “solution” - to PH? I don’t know. I wish I did. The campaign linked in my OP is a good one. There are some good SM movements.
I’m also not going to stop saying that if you use PH, you don’t know if the woman you are getting your rocks off to is being raped, has been trafficked or is a child.

I'm with you all the way OP. Nobody is going to like being called out for such monstrous indifference especially if they have previously justified the use of such material to themselves by thinking they are 'modern', 'adventurous' or even, most absurdly of all, 'feminist'.
The fact is the sex drive is a very base element in our make up and for some people they become almost blinkered in their lust for it. We are more used to hearing about men who cross moral / ethical boundaries to pursue it but there are many women out there who also put their libido beyond decency and basic humanity.
The very idea that 'you won't stop people using porn' is a worthy counter to 'people are being abused, trafficked, raped, kidnapped and this site knows it' is the absolute zenith of moral complacency. It's sad.
Some people may have read this thread and started to change their mind, given the harrowing stories and links that have been posted; I really hope so.
I applaud you OP for the consistency of your message and replies despite many efforts to twist your words, and for bothering to raise the issue. It is one that has been upmost in my mind of late given that I have three tween / teen DC's.
Hope you have a good day.