Pornhub profit from trafficking of women and girls.

[SmileEachDay]

I’m increasingly frustrated with attitudes to porn on MN - there seem to be 2 main ways people justify it:

1. The liberal feminism defence: “It’s empowering, women are allowed bodily autonomy.

2. I enjoy it, it’s all consensual.

This is obviously bullshit. If you watch porn on a mainstream platform it is very likely that the woman you are watching has been directly trafficked and is being raped. If she hasn’t been, the woman or girl in the next clip may have been. You’re getting your rocks off to the filmed abuse of women and girls.

And that’s before we even start looking at how the commodification of women affects us more generally.

Please read this - it’s really eye opening

Here’s the difference @Notthemessiah and if you still don’t get it after this, then I don’t think there’s any hope for you.

1. The difference between a nail bar that is likely to use trafficked people and a beauty salon that staffs qualified professionals is blindingly obvious.

2. If you know that hand car washes is a red flag for human trafficking then you can avoid them altogether, use a garage car wash or wash your own car.

3. Clothing is much harder as it is essential and budget must be accounted for but if you can, you do have a choice to use ethical clothing suppliers or buy preloved. You might not be able to satisfy your morals 100% with this one but you can definitely do your best. It’s becoming increasingly easier and affordable to shop for ethical clothing.

You can’t make any of these choices with porn.

1)The difference between consensual and non-consensual sex in porn is not obvious.

2. if you want to watch porn you cannot avoid watching abuse. You also cannot withdraw your support from ethically challenging situations being created because by watching what you think is consensual on a mainstream site automatically supports the non-consensual financially/morally etc.

3. porn isn’t essential. You don’t have to partake.

there has always been forms of erotica/porn

Yes some women do enjoy others watching them have sex or like watching others have sex, some enjoy group sex, rough sex,

The porn industry is nasty and exploits many mostly women so does the sex industry as a whole. It also has an impact on how young people vote sex but we as parents can also discuss this with our children and there is open discussions on the negative impacts

Does that mean everyone who has watched porn online is ok with exploration now of course not.

There are many industries that exploit poor people that we are quite happy to turn a blind eye to one is everyone you fill your car up at the garage. If you are going to so so pious then best look in the mirror and think about absolutely everything you buy, everywhere you go on holiday in the wealthy west we quite happily exploit much of the rest of the world without a second thought

I have a couple of friends who work in the adult film industry and their ‘work’ is on pornhub but they are in no way forced into it it is of their own choosing 100%

I am not anti all porn but I am against trafficking, and extreme porn or when they glamorise rape. The amount of times I’ve read headings like step dad/mum seduces step daughter/son makes me sick.
It can also have a damaging effect on young people and their future relationships.

Whether you are for or against porn is irrelevant as no one is happy to know that girls are being forced/lured into something they don’t want to do.
The issue is to make sure these porn sites only use videos from consenting adults. You can’t achieve this by claiming anyone who watches porn is despicable as you will just be made out to hate porn for other reasons.

pious - already been covered

Whataboutery- done to death

you will just be made out to hate porn for other reasons - honestly? I really don’t care.

My only focus with this thread is to keep repeating the message that on mainstream porn platforms like Pornhub, you do not know if the woman you are watching is:
Consenting
Not consenting
Trafficked
Being coerced
Off head on drugs
Actually a girl
Being raped
Being abused
...

YANBU OP.

If any other company was known to profit from child abuse no one would be on here arguing it’s ok to buy other stuff from them.

Totally agree OP

No one is arguing that child abuse is ok

What many are saying is that porn is enjoyed by many there is nothing wrong with that when consenting adults are involved. The porn industry needs to be very tightly regulated

Sexual desire is complex (for some more than others) and what some people get off on others find odd/revolting/a turn off. If all are consenting adults why should it be banned that they choose to film and watched by many.

It’s always gone on in some form just now we have the internet

you will just be made out to hate porn for other reasons - honestly? I really don’t care.

You don’t care?
I thought the whole point of your thread was that you cared about the trafficking of girls in the porn industry and wanted change!

You don’t care?
I thought the whole point of your thread was that you cared about the trafficking of girls in the porn industry and wanted change!

I don’t care if people on this thread think I am anti porn because I’m a prude/pious/whatever. My focus is the harm caused to women and girls.

No one is arguing that child abuse is ok
No- but many are arguing that they don’t give enough of a shit about the trafficking and exploitation of women and girls to condemn Pornhub or change their porn consumption habits.

I don’t care if people on this thread think I am anti porn because I’m a prude/pious/whatever. My focus is the harm caused to women and girls.

My post wasn’t about what people on here think of you. I said it is irrelevant who is for or against porn.
And arguing between whether porn is good or bad is not stopping trafficking. It will actually stop some people listening to you but accepting porn exists and people will always watch it means you can focus on making sure porn sites are vetting the videos. Which is what people who watch porn would want also.

My friend has uploaded videos on their between her and her boyfriend.. Weird but I have videoed it.
Its what they do because she has an only fans she needs to promote

@Gurtcha

Here’s the difference *@Notthemessiah* and if you still don’t get it after this, then I don’t think there’s any hope for you.

1. The difference between a nail bar that is likely to use trafficked people and a beauty salon that staffs qualified professionals is blindingly obvious.

2. If you know that hand car washes is a red flag for human trafficking then you can avoid them altogether, use a garage car wash or wash your own car.

3. Clothing is much harder as it is essential and budget must be accounted for but if you can, you do have a choice to use ethical clothing suppliers or buy preloved. You might not be able to satisfy your morals 100% with this one but you can definitely do your best. It’s becoming increasingly easier and affordable to shop for ethical clothing.

You can’t make any of these choices with porn.

1)The difference between consensual and non-consensual sex in porn is not obvious.

2. if you want to watch porn you cannot avoid watching abuse. You also cannot withdraw your support from ethically challenging situations being created because by watching what you think is consensual on a mainstream site automatically supports the non-consensual financially/morally etc.

3. porn isn’t essential. You don’t have to partake.

Thanks @gurtcha. It was all getting a bit serious, but your post made me laugh out loud.

Of course you can make all of those choices with porn if you look hard enough, just like you can make sure your t-shirt isn't made by children, but both take a fair bit of effort. Unless you actually believe that ALL porn is non-consensual, but really, what kind of person would think that? Oh, you supposedly, because:

"if you want to watch porn you cannot avoid watching abuse"

Also, doing 'your best' is OK for t-shirts but not for porn? Be interested to see you explain that to the kids making them.

The difference between consensual and non-consensual sex in porn is not obvious

And neither is the difference between an ethically produced piece of clothing and one produced by slaves (though maybe there is some telltale mark on the label I'm unaware of). Unless you actually go and watch your clothing being made, at some point you're basing it entirely on your own judgement of the believeability of the person selling it to you (or other people telling you that it's OK).

watching what you think is consensual on a mainstream site automatically supports the non-consensual financially/morally etc

Then don't watch on a mainstream site.

If the OP was purely interested in shutting down Pornhub, or for much harsher penalties on sites that show non-consensual videos (whether they only find out about them later or not), or more police resources and longer sentences for sex traffickers then she'd have my total support. But she doesn't - she wants to ban porn entirely, even if it was 100% consenting adults, purely because she doesn't like it personally.

And no she's not a 'prude' and neither is anyone else who doesn't like sex, just like I'm not an animal hater because I don't like dogs. She just doesn't like porn - I have no problems with that. She just can't tolerate people who think otherwise and I'm afraid I have zero time for people who seek to push their opinions as fact and then wish to tell me what I can and can't do based purely on that.

Yes I have friends who have too

Another friend came across it (excuse the pun) said he didn’t watch it (not so sure)

They are swingers and we all know about this but it’s not their whole life. It is a bit weird when out and a friend of theirs turns up and we know what they shall be doing later (and quite a turn on too with one very attractive guy was almost tempted)

she wants to ban porn entirely, even if it was 100% consenting adults, purely because she doesn't like it personally
Show me ANY post I’ve made that isn’t entirely focused on the harm caused by porn to women and girls.

And no she's not a 'prude' and neither is anyone else who doesn't like sex
So you’ve decided I don’t like sex. Ok.

She just can't tolerate people who think otherwise
I can’t tolerate people who are happy to overlook the trafficking, abuse and rape of women and girls so they can continue to get their rocks off, no.

I said earlier in this thread- I don’t know the answer to internet porn. I’m a supporter of the Nordic model when dealing with prostituted women and girls. I don’t know how you begin to regulate the internet.

I don’t know the answer to internet porn.

The trouble is it’s a multi billion pound industry so anyone trying to change it is going to have very hard time and I wouldn’t know where to start. But I don’t know one women or man who wouldn’t support the stopping of trafficking and rape etc.

Nowhere on this thread has OP said that she wants to ban porn. Neither do I. It’s a well known fact that total bans backfire massively. She did say she didn’t know what the solution would be. Either way she not wrong to express her concern.

Of course you can make all of those choices with porn if you look hard enough

The point here is that the average person that uses porn through a mainstream site does not consider all the negative factors and therefore have no idea that you can do this because it is not publicised. The ethical way to watch porn is not common knowledge and that’s why attitudes need to change with an open dialogue. Anybody shutting down concerns around porn as you have done, makes it even harder to raise awareness of the realities of the porn industry and negative impact it has on society.

You can’t ‘do your best’ with porn. That is the whole point. It’s nigh on impossible to make an ethical choice.

And neither is the difference between an ethically produced piece of clothing and one produced by slaves (though maybe there is some telltale mark on the label I'm unaware of).

Actually it is. More so nowadays as the controversies of places like Boohoo and Primark come to light in the mainstream media. There are stark obvious differences and if you can’t see them there is much more information to base a calculated decision on than there is on ethical porn.

The argument of ‘what’s the point of bringing this up, there’s shit loads of other ethically fucked stuff in the world and you can’t care about one of you don’t care about them all’ is moot. You can care about more than one thing at the same tome but only have a discussion about one. It’s a well trotted our defence though that had been recently debunked with BLM vs All Lives Matter. It’s the same argument and we all know it stinks.

Also, doing 'your best' is OK for t-shirts but not for porn?

Because clothing is a necessity. In our climate, if we don't wear clothing, we die of exposure.

No-one has to watch porn. Even if you start banging on about Maslin's hierarchy of needs and how sex is essential to a psychologically healthy life (which I don't actually buy, but let's assume it is for the sake of argument), that still doesn't justify porn, because frankly if you can't get laid and have an orgasm, or masturbate to orgasm, without using porn, then you're a bit shit at having sex.

(I suspect it's not the anti-porn posters on this thread who're having rubbish sex! I think the desperate fixation on "must be allowed to watch porn" is saying something very revealing about how crap those individuals' sexual imaginations are. Yet ironically "you're all prudes" seems to be the go-to insult against women concerned about other women being raped and sexually abused during the production of porn.)

Even if there is consent, the image it portrays to young men/boys about relationships and sex is such that it is more likely they will force a young woman into sexual behaviour they would not wish to do, or affect their self-image.

I’m some ways I’m even more concerned about how easily accessible unregulated, free porn is to our young people. The shift in attitudes towards what constitutes as healthy relationships and sex since this has been the case is absolutely terrifying.

Honestly op, where I do think you have a point, you are making it really badly.

You care about trafficking- great, but the way you are talking is that you only care about the trafficking that won't have a detrimental effect on your life.

You've answered every point with - "that's whataboutery, you clearly agree with watching women getting raped".

You aren't going to gain any support or provoke an interesting debate or change anyones mind with the way you're going about this thread.

It's an emotive subject, of course, but there are ways to alert people to what goes on in the industry that doesn't brand them in the way you have done.

You're probably doing more harm than good here.

@Noswaithdda we practically X posted there!

You aren't going to gain any support or provoke an interesting debate or change anyones mind with the way you're going about this thread

I disagree. I think there have been contributions from both sides of this debate that will allow people reading to draw their own conclusions.

Well, page 6 and the only 'arguments' you've had against you OP are:

1. ad hominem (you just don't like sex/porn!)
2. Let's talk about another issue like nail bars (yes, that's an issue but it's really not a reason why the porn industry isn't)
3. But it isn't all non-consensual...

I wouldn't let my year 8s get away with such poor critical reasoning skills.
As you were...

The shift in attitudes towards what constitutes as healthy relationships and sex since this has been the case is absolutely terrifying

Completely agree.

AnIckabog

Indeed.