Pornhub profit from trafficking of women and girls.

[SmileEachDay]

I’m increasingly frustrated with attitudes to porn on MN - there seem to be 2 main ways people justify it:

1. The liberal feminism defence: “It’s empowering, women are allowed bodily autonomy.

2. I enjoy it, it’s all consensual.

This is obviously bullshit. If you watch porn on a mainstream platform it is very likely that the woman you are watching has been directly trafficked and is being raped. If she hasn’t been, the woman or girl in the next clip may have been. You’re getting your rocks off to the filmed abuse of women and girls.

And that’s before we even start looking at how the commodification of women affects us more generally.

Please read this - it’s really eye opening

MoistMolly

Is that what you do or are you just throwing out hypotheticals in an attempt to justify the damage the porn industry causes? Just so I’m clear.

GoshHashana

Doesn’t it just.

"And it is impossible to tell as a viewer which [trafficked and raped or allegedly consenting] woman or girl that is."

This is absolutely the centre of the issue. If you (generic you) are choosing to scroll through pornhub some of what you wank to will be actual footage of women really getting raped. And hell yes, you should feel guilty about that. Your viewing choices fuels the demand without which the supply would not exist.

Need a fantasy supplied by someone else's imagination to get you in the mood for a wank? Then read an erotic novel. Don't consume filmed porn you don't know the provenance of.

I wish people wouldn't pretend like this. You don't like porn. Fine. That's your right. Just don't pretend that using porn makes you a supporter of trafficking

It does make you a supporter of trafficking.

but using other products which involve trafficked people doesn't make you a supporter of it. It doesn't stand up

Start a thread on trafficking in other industries- I’ll support it. (In fact, search my history and you’ll find a thread I started about “hand car washes”). On this thread, it’s Whataboutery.

@SmileEachDay

MoistMolly

Is that what you do or are you just throwing out hypotheticals in an attempt to justify the damage the porn industry causes? Just so I’m clear.

Does it matter whether it's hypothetical or not?

Does it matter whether it's hypothetical or not?

A bit, yes. If it is what you actually do, then it’s worth spending time looking at whether there are still links to exploitation, and then whether there are still issues with the way porn contributes to the overall treatment of women.

If it’s just a hypothetical “but look! Porn use can be fine!” then 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you don’t like porn, fair enough. But the assumption that porn is filled with put upon women is crap. I think there’s more trafficking issues in car washes, cut price beauty stores, etc.

Don't all feminists believe women are allowed bodily autonomy?

Of course, Dionne

But you’re taking a snippet out of context.

But the assumption that porn is filled with put upon women is crap
Put upon? Trafficked and sexually exploited.

I think there’s more trafficking issues in car washes, cut price beauty stores, etc

Start a thread about that. I’ll come and support it. Otherwise it is - as I said earlier - Whataboutery.

Maybe we ought to register and license all porn stars? So there's a properly run database and each actor must be listed in each video? Porn could then be regulated and taxed, health and safety audits could be carried out, they'd have to be filmed in licensed premises. An in-person interview could be required for each license application, as would proof of ID. Wouldn't make it impossible to traffic people and force them into it, but would make it much more difficult.

It’s a really complicated problem, isn’t it. I’m absolutely not for censorship as in the past efforts to censor porn have infringed on other civil liberties and realistically, these are doomed to fail.

I think there are probably some women content to work in the industry.

However: the nature of it demands women enter the industry at such a young age I think it’s impossible to negate the risk of exploitation.

Regulation is probably the answer but as with any of the vice industries this is going to be difficult as both the vendors/actors and consumers will probably reject it (look at gambling addiction measures, min alcohol prices and how these are received/circumvented)

I've read too many stories now of women who have begged pornhub and other sites (including so called ethical sites) to take down videos in which they were raped or videos that they were coerced into making. I won't ever watch porn again.

Perhaps every time someone logs on to view porn they should have to sign a disclaimer like this:

I declare myself to be completely comfortable using the porn on this site in the full knowledge that participants may be;
Under coercion
Non consensual
Under age
Trafficked
Being physically, sexually and emotionally abused whilst being filmed.

Signed

A. User @email address. Com

Perhaps with a requirement that a phone number and/or email address should be provided so that a copy of the disclaimer can be supplied.

I’d be interested to know how many of the MN breezy “I use porn” posters would be happy to sign that.

(Obviously this is not an actual way of combatting exploitation.)

I’m not sure what you expect signing that achieve? Also I’m not sure you understand how the internet works.

vikingwife

As I said just there ^ it’s not an actual solution.

Would you sign it though? If you were reminded every time of the risk you’re taking with other people’s lives, would it change your viewing habits?

It's difficult to convince people that people such as Seka, Nina Hartley, Marylin Chambers etc might be trafficked Somalian refugees or somesuch.

I can’t answer your question because it could never be implemented. Porn is not just the sites you’re talking about. It would be impossible to put all porn behind a firewall that you are unable to access unless you sign a document.

As someone else suggested articulately here, your energies would be arguably better spent focusing on strategies to improve regulations within the porn industry to prevent trafficking.

I’m not sure how signing this document would actually help women in any practical way.

YANBU, smile.

I recently had a friend who cut contact with me following a discussion on porn. He was defending his porn use with the “its all consensual” line, and I said something on the lines of “if you are Ok with the fact that you have definitely, 100% for sure watched a woman getting raped while you have a wank, then fine”.

He was furious with me, and it was easier to stop speaking to me than to confront the unpleasant reality. But what I said was true. He made the further argument that “ethical” porn has filmed testimonials from women before or after saying they enjoyed it. But talk about motivated reasoning! If it’s before, then the woman could well have subsequently been pushed beyond what she had agreed to do (this happens a lot). If it was after, well, unless she had already been paid and safely left the studio, and was happy to speak entirely freely while being sure she’d be able to work again, then maybe....but I doubt it. There’s a reason that the vast, vast majority of careers for women in porn are extremely short.

I’m not looking to ban anything, but I do want to change the conversation about porn and its ubiquity. The disingenuousness is awful. Make your choices, but own the actual reality.

And it is impossible to tell as a viewer which woman or girl that is. Those that have made careers out of it? Attend award shows? They definitely aren’t being forced.

I’d be more than happy to tick a box with your disclaimer before watching porn, but I’m not putting my email address in, god knows what sort of spam I would get.

It's difficult to convince people that people such as Seka, Nina Hartley, Marylin Chambers etc might be trafficked Somalian refugees or somesuch

Jesus Christ.

I’d be more than happy to tick a box with your disclaimer before watching porn, but I’m not putting my email address in, god knows what sort of spam I would get

And you’re ok with your priorities there, are you?

@SmileEachDay

I’d be more than happy to tick a box with your disclaimer before watching porn, but I’m not putting my email address in, god knows what sort of spam I would get

And you’re ok with your priorities there, are you?

Yes thank you.

Are you writing this on your mobile OP?

Using a mobile phone supports child labor, didn't you know?

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2016/06/drc-cobalt-child-labour/

Do you have an ethical phone? But how can you really tell? Even if you have an ethical phone, surely you using a phone promotes the use of cell phones in general, and thereby you are supporting the exploitation of children?