Pornhub profit from trafficking of women and girls.

[SmileEachDay]

I’m increasingly frustrated with attitudes to porn on MN - there seem to be 2 main ways people justify it:

1. The liberal feminism defence: “It’s empowering, women are allowed bodily autonomy.

2. I enjoy it, it’s all consensual.

This is obviously bullshit. If you watch porn on a mainstream platform it is very likely that the woman you are watching has been directly trafficked and is being raped. If she hasn’t been, the woman or girl in the next clip may have been. You’re getting your rocks off to the filmed abuse of women and girls.

And that’s before we even start looking at how the commodification of women affects us more generally.

Please read this - it’s really eye opening

This is the petition from the OP

Over a million signatures so far.

That picture and those comments, JFC, how anyone can defend an industry that gives rise to those attitudes amongst men against women and girls is beyond me.

OP, the argument against you from vikingwife amounts to:

Be nice to me, don't make me look or think that hideous, illegal and cruel abuse and exploitation are going on and there is no connection between attitudes towards and treatment of women and girls, it's empowering because some women consent and make a lot of money and I need porn so I just really don't care and anyway what about....

Disgraceful.

There is zero way of telling whether the women on Pornhub are consenting adults, non consenting adults or children.

I know 2 couples (I know the female half of the couples) who upload videos on that site. They choose to do it. They're not trafficked.... They're not from a poor underdeveloped country... they both have 2 different unusual fetishes that they enjoy and like to show off.

It's wrong to assume all porn is women who have been forced into it one way or another.

That doesn't follow.

You can view their videos and know they are consensual because you know them.

People who don't know them don't know that though.

And watch any people you don't know, and you don't know either.

Does that make sense to you?

If people were only watching film of close friends that they know well and know enjoy exhibitionism, I'd not have any problem with it. But that is really not where it's at, is it.

But you only know that Sandy because you know the couple's in RL.

Some random punter on PornHub surfing at random has no way of knowing if it's consensual, or was maybe made consensually at the time for personal use and has now been posted as revenge porn, or if one of the people in it is being coerced.

It's the combination of "no way for the random viewer to know" plus "we know from survivor testimony that some (a substantial proportion) is made under conditions of coercion" that makes watching it unethical.

They're not trafficked.... They're not from a poor underdeveloped country.

This demonstrates such enormous ignorance about trafficking.

Ok. Great. From the 6.83 million videos uploaded onto Pornhub, you are absolutely certain that the ones containing your friends are free of exploitation. Are you equally sure that any other video that comes up alongside it is totally consensual? Are you happy that there might be a banner across the top saying “Jerk off to random teens”? Or that men have left comments on PH like the ones in the picture up there?

FFS. Why is your reaction to information about the trafficking, abuse and filmed rape of women and girls to say “But my mate Shirley is fine?” Honestly? Why?

But you seem to refuse to believe that there are some women who genuinely do want to be porn stars & are consenting. You say “well how do you know they are not being injured ?” - professional athletes sometimes sustain injuries, that doesn’t mean they have not consented to that football game, or running that race.

Biggest pile of straw-clutching claptrap I've read in a long time.

In lots of sports and entertainment which is v physical eg ballet

There have been loads of recent news stories about physical abuse, sexual abuse, the children (and the top ones start young) being subjected to extreme dehumanisation and mental torture.

That's a shite analogy to use even at face value.

And the equivalence with porn would be a young gymnast filmed crying over physical abuse, specifically for men to wank over.

Try again.

Try again

Really??
I’m not sure how many more Whataboutery attempts I can handle 😂

I've seen loads of stories of wives and girlfriend having porn uploaded by their abusive partners. Porn they're forced into making.

Pornhub then refuse to remove the videos even after they have escaped the relationship, somtimes even after the abuser has been charged.

How do you know the ametur couples porn you view are like Sandys saucy friends, or are actually abused wives and your partaking in their abuse.

You don't. Yes Sandys saucy friends do exist and do like showing their sex sessions to the world. But until porn hub can guarantee the only video you can view on their platform is of fully, enthusiastically concenting adults - then you shouldn't be watching anything on Pornhub.

And Sandy, even when you watch your fully concenting mates - you're still using and supporting a website that hosts child abuse and rape.

Exactly @NiceGerbil, it's such a piss poor argument. Anyone with half a brain understands the difference between an occupational hazard and out and out abuse.

Just because women consent to making porn videos, doesn't mean they consent to being injured during sex. Why in God's name would any woman agree to being beaten, choked, hurt, and even risk getting an STD or cervical cancer? I'm pretty certain those don't fall under the general occupational hazard category. An athlete may sprain their ankle - that's a risk they know can happen as part of their vocation. But it is an accident, not something another person has decided to do to another for a cheap thrill. I'm astounded people don't grasp the difference .

An athlete may sprain their ankle

At which point they stop what they are doing. Or they push on a bit and then stop to prevent the injury getting worse. At no point is injuring the athlete the entire reason they are being watched.

In porn, it’s often the point. And the injuries are often real. And the women get offered more money to push themselves further.

I have seen calls for the age to appear in porn reduced to 16 to align with the age of consent. Including a motion at a lib dem conference years ago. The argument is it's inconsistent, denying bodily autonomy, that sort of thing. If this were to happen in the UK, what sort of appetite do posters think there would be for that type of porn?

Theres a doc on channel 4 about page 3.
School girls were appearing in their uniform at 15 with a countdown to their 16th birthday when they would get their tits out.

This was recent as well, like early 00 late 90s. I was really shocked.

I actually think porn needs to be raised to 21, and age gap sex should also be raised to at least 18 if not 21. That shit is out there on the Internet, easily searchible FOREVER! I don't think most 18 year olds can really comprehend that.

@Alabamawhirly1

I have seen calls for the age to appear in porn reduced to 16 to align with the age of consent. Including a motion at a lib dem conference years ago. The argument is it's inconsistent, denying bodily autonomy, that sort of thing. If this were to happen in the UK, what sort of appetite do posters think there would be for that type of porn?

Theres a doc on channel 4 about page 3.
School girls were appearing in their uniform at 15 with a countdown to their 16th birthday when they would get their tits out.

This was recent as well, like early 00 late 90s. I was really shocked.

I actually think porn needs to be raised to 21, and age gap sex should also be raised to at least 18 if not 21. That shit is out there on the Internet, easily searchible FOREVER! I don't think most 18 year olds can really comprehend that.

I think that was Sam Fox in the 80s. I think I remember a program about her and if I I remember rightly, her mother pushed her into doing it. Its grim.

Also, I've recently heard about MAPs on mumsnet. Google it if you've got the stomach but be warned, its utterly disgusting and I should probably include a TRIGGER WARNING at this point if you do go off in search of it.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid their would be people who would push for the porn age to be lowered. Tracey Lords got into the industry at 15 (she lied about her age) and as OP showed in the photo she posted, there is still demand for teen porn to this day.

'An athlete may sprain their ankle

At which point they stop what they are doing. Or they push on a bit and then stop to prevent the injury getting worse. At no point is injuring the athlete the entire reason they are being watched.'

And no one is masturbating over it.

I saw the C4 page 3 doc. It was really good. Would recommend anyone to watch.

Sam fox was 16 when she first appeared on page 3.

The women interviewed, many famous names from the 80s, had stories of coercion, being tricked, too young to know what they were doing, exploitation etc etc.

A really interesting watch.

There is zero way of telling whether the women on Pornhub are consenting adults, non consenting adults or children.

It usually tells you the name of the actress in the blurb under the video and a quick google search will show most to be professional actors.

I find most porn pretty ick to be fair but I don't think the massive hyperbole and clear inaccuracies usually posted on here really help - most people aren't totally unfamiliar with porn.

There is no doubt some dodgy stuff out there but the vast majority, even the more seemingly exploitative/rough stuff, is professionally produced. I can see why people find it degrading but spouting a load of mistruths just makes most people roll their eyes. There is loads of 'passionate' professionally produced porn and also amateur stuff made by couples who want others to see it. This isn't remotely like trafficked people being raped and trying to lump it all together is a bit daft imo.

There is no doubt some dodgy stuff out there but the vast majority, even the more seemingly exploitative/rough stuff, is professionally produced.

Professional doesn't mean ethical or non-exploitative. It just means someone gets paid for it.

I don't think the massive hyperbole and clear inaccuracies usually posted on here really help

Which ones?

Ethical porn isn't even safe from mistreatment of the women.

On Netflix's Hot Girls Wanted 2 there's a female porn producer/director. She sounds really nice and caring and interested in truly changing the porn world.

Later we see a shoot. There's a woman who has chosen of her own free will to be in a porn film. She appears to genuinely want to. Her on screen partner is a professional porn actor. The filming has to stop because the penetration is painful for her. All well and good, right, this is absolutely ethical porn.

Then the producer/director talks to her. She reminds her that it's her choice to be there, she wants to do it and that the crew is all there waiting for her to finish filming. The newbie is very reluctant to continue, because it's hurting, and more pressure is put on her. She's going to waste a day of filming, waste everybody's time etc. Eventually she gives in. The guy is told to go a bit slower with her because she's not a professional. He replies that he's just doing what he normally does.

This is the making of ethical porn.

And then, a reference to this woman (she was a pianist) come up on Woman's Hour with a couple who talked about only watching ethical porn!!

If we truly understand that as ethical then we accept the premise that vaginal penetration hurting the woman is part and parcel of ethical porn, and that it's wrong for a woman to end a shoot because she is in pain.

There is no way of knowing if ethical porn is actually ethical, if we believe sex to be something pleasurable.

Eventually she gives in

In any other context, this would be rape.

I'm trying to think of another form of "entertainment " we may watch that has a high chance the subjects have been abused/raped/trafficked/coerced, but because many aren't (and on the amateur uploaded content, there definitely isn't a way to tell) we're comfortable wanking over what we're watching.

I can't think of one.

To me if there's a chance any girl or woman is being harmed in the making of mine/DHs orgasm, I'll find another way. Jeez it's not difficult.

It's not acceptable to risk this harm to anyone just to get your rocks off.

Slightly off topic but if you are ok with men who visit sex workers and feel brave, take a look at UKPunting, a "chat" forum for men to compare notes, experiences and recommendations of sex work visits.

An eye opener into how so many men view women

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Yeah it’s awful 🤢

Maybe I'm being hopelessly stupid here but I don't really understand why more porn needs to be made. There are tens of millions of videos available already catering to every possible 'taste' out there. Isn't the market absolutely saturated?