School mums are too much aren’t they

[NCschoolmumssuck]

I’m just finding the school mums scene too too much, AIBU? There’s a group of us who have spent time together socialising (with and without children) for years now, and yet it still feels like teenage levels of friendship drama, I feel like I can’t escape it without impacting on my child’s friendships and I’m exhausted.

Who had play dates with each other, who got invited on a park visit, which families have had clandestine barbecues with each other who has had secret sleepovers.. I don’t want to care about this shit, it’s so inane, I try to stay out of it ,and as a result am probably not as intensely involved as others in our group) but somehow I end up sucked in, and then feel paranoid, and shit about myself, second guessing why I wasn’t involved/told about X Y or Z.

I hate it, but if I walk away from it all I can’t see how it won’t wreck my child’s two most important friendships. And as we live away from family and old friends, this lot are pretty much all I’ve got.

My dh often has robust debates or disagrees with his male friends, they're all still mates, they don't cut each other off.

You see, I also have this with friends. But the key thing is they are friends, not school mum friends. Totally different thing imo, as I do treat school parents like colleagues. I'd never have a robust debate with my colleagues, because you do need to be more sensitive.

What I do hate with the school parent dynamic, is the silent cut off...I've seen it play out, never been a part of it, because I opt out. But nobody blazes or rages, they just go icily polite when they used to be best pals. Shudder. Not a nice feeling.

One thing I think that prevents me from making closer friends is that you have your child’s interest first. And you can’t discuss anything you know your child wouldn’t want their friends to know. It is more of a colleague relationship you end up with. Well this thread has made me feel better as I so often blame myself for being terrible at social interactions but I can see that it is a common problem.

You can strive to treat them like work colleagues SomeWateryTart and formerbabe but it is always going to be a strange dynamic. I'm quite reserved, not given to over sharing but in absence of confession, people will take crumbs of knowledge and make wild assumptions. The school parent dynamic always fools you into assuming friendship because you are trusting people with your child and you become familiar with their homes, childbirth descriptions, parenting worries, etc. My workplace is not quite so familiar!

Stay sober (I was driving) but be aware that even hiding a bit of critical thinking as the filling in a shit sandwich can always repeat on you!

@SunshineSuper

You can strive to treat them like work colleagues SomeWateryTart and formerbabe but it is always going to be a strange dynamic. I'm quite reserved, not given to over sharing but in absence of confession, people will take crumbs of knowledge and make wild assumptions. The school parent dynamic always fools you into assuming friendship because you are trusting people with your child and you become familiar with their homes, childbirth descriptions, parenting worries, etc. My workplace is not quite so familiar! Stay sober (I was driving) but be aware that even hiding a bit of critical thinking as the filling in a shit sandwich can always repeat on you!

True, but if you never see these people, except a quick hi and bye at the gates, they can do whatever they want with the crumbs of knowledge and you will never know! They'll move on to the next victim and that'll be that.

I can definitely see how people get fooled into thinking you have genuine friendships with the worst of them though.

When I was pregnant, I actually did get loads of birth stories at work, even from men whose partners had just given birth. I don't think colleague-like has to mean super frosty, just not caring too much what their opinions are, whether they share mine or not. It is possible to be friendly, share relevant information and also not give a shit if you get talked about.

But, I mean "your child is so flawed that they will always find life hard", while sober? I mean...ooops. There is a clear middle ground between being frosty and coming out with something this negative and this personal about someone's primary aged child, no?

Even if I said that about my actual best friend's dc, I would expect a strong, negative reaction.

Did you apologise? Not wishing to open up old wounds, but I do think it's a bit much to blame the dastardly and completely unavoidable dynamic for this incident, when you did actually say something which I think most parents wouldn't take kindly to, in any setting. Sorry.

Sorry I’ve never been part of the school gate mummy group! I speak to whoever is around if I feel like speaking. I talk to parents of my child’s friends. Kids make friends and fall out and swear they will never be friends again then make up two weeks later! So I have never ever involved myself in the drama. I always say to a new friends’ parents in never get involved when the kids fall out. It’s so daft to stop talking cos the kids fall out as chances are they will make friends again’. Unless of course there are serious reasons for a fallout in which case as a parent you have to maybe step in. I can’t stand the yummy mummies who simper and fawn all over each other and force their kids into friendships with each other ( not that I’m saying that’s what you’re doing) it’s so false. And I’ve too much to be getting on with... maybe distance yourself slowly....

@NCschoolmumssuck

Seems like so many mums can relate, reassuring albeit a bit depressing I guess! Thanks to those who have pointed out that ‘this too shall pass’, you’re right, this is just the eye of the storm I guess. Things seem to be ramping up over the summer holidays if anything, everyone seems desperate to keep up social appearances!

I have nothing to do with that clique anymore but it's like I can feel the messages, and play dates and the like that must be whizzing between them. It's weird.

What is interesting AND helpful in our case was that DS never really liked the children in that gang. There were one or two he was mildly friendly with, but for whatever reason he really really disliked queen bee's child from the start and didn't enjoy it when we all got together. So that helps.

@SunshineSuper I feel your pain. In my case, after Queen Bee had been consistently passive aggressive about me personally and the PTA, I pushed back. She was LIVID. But the bit I really struggled with was that the rest of the group took their cue from her. It was so weird. I understood that SHE hated me. I got that she wasn't going to invite me to things. But the fact that the rest of them were quite happy to pretend I didn't exist was weird. And over time, I think many of them have felt a bit bad and there have been a few overtures (also, I think Queen Bee has pissed a few more people off. But my view is that these kind of weak-willed people are not people I want to be friends with so I'm polite and chatty but that's it.

@BlingLoving

I understand, there's one mother in my dds class who dislikes me for whatever reason...no idea! I've noticed mums who've previously been friendly towards me suddenly change once she befriends them. Normally I'd laugh at people like this and tell them to fuck off quite frankly but clearly that's not an option.

One thing my dh said to me which I think is so true is that most people are cowards. They are petrified of being ostracized so go along with whatever. It's pathetic really.

SomeWateryTart my tale is a warning! I can assure you my hint, was a hint in a 'none of us or the kid's involved are perfect' and I wouldn't have said anything except this woman was naming and blaming a yr 8 at the time child , who parents weren't there but would be known within the community.
Luckily my yr8 at the time DD had moved friendship groups already.

I suspect I had been nominated for downgrading for sometime but it became a perfect occasion for her. I unluckyily got blamed, apologised but long term it did bond some of the witnesses together!
I had a few wry comments from other detached parents who were there after the event 🤔.
Life moves on, I have had over the years many lovely, funny, warm moments with parent 'friends', it is a special time and never all bad. Value the good bits, they are important. " Friends for a reason, a season or a lifetime" - at the beginning you never know how it will turn out 😁

Normally I'd laugh at people like this and tell them to fuck off quite frankly but clearly that's not an option.

How about laughing at them to yourself and not telling them to fuck off?

Again, there is a middle ground to be had I think. It isn't 'member of the clique' or arch nemesis as the only two options, is it? Maybe to the queen bee, it's "you're either in my gang or you're not and if you're not, then I'm not inviting you anywhere and neither are any of the gang". But it doesn't mean you have to take that pathetic attitude seriously at all. I mean, much as I like my DC getting lots of party invitations, I won't negotiate with social terrorists to arrange them. Children usually find their own friends in the end anyway.

Maybe I'm more resilient to this, as I've been treated pretty badly by people most of my life. Ostracised by my members of own family, because some cunt with a wealthy family, who they wanted to impress, didn't like me. Waves at cousins and auntie 👍😂.

I've developed a rhino hide and queen bees have never succeeded in intimidating me, since I was a child.

Actually telling people to get fucked is a sign of weakness tbh. You've lost control at that point. And you wouldn't do it at work, or you'd probably get a warning. So no, you can't do it at the school gate either 🤷‍♀️.

@SunshineSuper

SomeWateryTart my tale is a warning! I can assure you my hint, was a hint in a 'none of us or the kid's involved are perfect' and I wouldn't have said anything except this woman was naming and blaming a yr 8 at the time child , who parents weren't there but would be known within the community. Luckily my yr8 at the time DD had moved friendship groups already.

I suspect I had been nominated for downgrading for sometime but it became a perfect occasion for her. I unluckyily got blamed, apologised but long term it did bond some of the witnesses together!
I had a few wry comments from other detached parents who were there after the event 🤔.
Life moves on, I have had over the years many lovely, funny, warm moments with parent 'friends', it is a special time and never all bad. Value the good bits, they are important. " Friends for a reason, a season or a lifetime" - at the beginning you never know how it will turn out 😁

Fair enough. I agree with much of what you say here. I don't cherish parent friendships at all though. No more than I enjoy the company of colleagues. It is almost exactly the same. At work, my priority was my work and relationships with colleagues are a small part of that. Exactly the same with other parents. My priority is my children and relationships with other parents are a small part of that and just a necessary evil for my, unfortunately.

@SomeWateryTart

Normally I'd laugh at people like this and tell them to fuck off quite frankly but clearly that's not an option.

How about laughing at them to yourself and not telling them to fuck off?

Again, there is a middle ground to be had I think. It isn't 'member of the clique' or arch nemesis as the only two options, is it? Maybe to the queen bee, it's "you're either in my gang or you're not and if you're not, then I'm not inviting you anywhere and neither are any of the gang". But it doesn't mean you have to take that pathetic attitude seriously at all. I mean, much as I like my DC getting lots of party invitations, I won't negotiate with social terrorists to arrange them. Children usually find their own friends in the end anyway.

Maybe I'm more resilient to this, as I've been treated pretty badly by people most of my life. Ostracised by my members of own family, because some cunt with a wealthy family, who they wanted to impress, didn't like me. Waves at cousins and auntie 👍😂.

I've developed a rhino hide and queen bees have never succeeded in intimidating me, since I was a child.

Actually telling people to get fucked is a sign of weakness tbh. You've lost control at that point. And you wouldn't do it at work, or you'd probably get a warning. So no, you can't do it at the school gate either 🤷‍♀️.

This makes me sound so hostile. I promise I'm not. I just have extremely firm boundaries and unfortunately, parents of my dcs' friends just are not people I care enough about to weaken these boundaries.

I have noticed that actually, many parents at school are like me. There is a recognition between us that we don't do that. I am not from round these ere parts as well, so my accent marks me out in our town, but luckily the school is very multicultural. I've noticed that the cliquey ones are all local. That isn't to say that they are xenophobic or racist or anything. I am sure they are not. It is more that the people who choose to join the clique fit in with that sort of crowd I suppose and that makes them more likely to be drawn towards one another? Obviously just in our school. I'm sure not the case everywhere.

I agree about if you're an outsider, I moved from the northwest to SE, I don't think it helped with integrating into the mum community when the kids were small. I seemed to get on well enough with other outsiders, mums from other countries even. The local mums, some were family, cousins, or had been to the same primary as our children were attending. My DD was somewhat ostracised by other girls mums, not invited to parties. My ds is fine as his friends are all 'outsiders' and the parents all work so we don't have time to chat really. If I'm doing a party for ds, I don't tend to invite the local clique kids, only his real friends and a couple of kids of parents who are genuinely nice with no agenda.
My DD fared better when she started secondary in a new area we moved to and didn't know a soul, she settled almost instantly and has made some lovely friends and I don't have anything to do with the parents unless there's a birthday party and we just exchange the basic pleasantries. I'm so so happy we sent her to that school away from the primary cliques.

And yes, don't find the same issue with mums that I work with in the same area as the primary school, but our dc are all different ages and attending different schools so there isn't that vested interest.

oh lord the cliquey playground mafia. I didn’t believe it either until I experienced it first hand (shudder). We moved schools and are well rid, still hear plenty of grumbling about that crowd from a safe distance though. I could write a book about their antics, Mean Girls meets Jam & Jerusalem .

There are always MNers who say it doesn’t happen or that you are being ridiculous. If you haven’t experienced it either congratulations you’ve escaped unscathed, or its because its YOU . Some parents have an agenda and treat DC friendships like its a competitive sport, and in a small school its probably a lot more noticeable. I agree it depends on the year group too, if you’ve got even one of these types in your year it can be an 8 year long nightmare for other DC.

Good luck extracting yourself OP. If you don’t hang around at drop off or pick up times and firmly swerve meeting the clique outside school, make yourself no longer useful or interesting to them and you’ll be a lot happier. Much healthier for DC to develop their own friendships too, rather than be confined to someone elses approved/wish list 🙄.

@aintnothinbutagstring

And yes, don't find the same issue with mums that I work with in the same area as the primary school, but our dc are all different ages and attending different schools so there isn't that vested interest.

I agree you don't get that level of conversation amongst working women.

I don't get involved in any of it, never hAve done. It is one big gossiping bitchfest imo. Tbh, I'm very good looking which the other mums hate so they have always left my children out of invites etc beacuse of that I think. I'm a shy, kind, caring and thoughtful person and used to make an effort but it was pointless. I now just make sure that my children are happy to firstly play alone and secondly to make friends at other clubs/sports.
School is not everything and just because they are there to learn it doesn't mean the parents have to be your friends.
It's all so fake - especially mums of girls.

@notasportymum Mean Girls meets Jam & Jerusalem!! That really made me smile.
In the absence of school gates there are arrangements being made on a near daily basis, I’m trying to avoid these but I can’t dodge all of them without it becoming a ‘thing’ and without it affecting my DC.
All the while the politics is continuing and my head is just spinning

you can dodge all of them. I know it can be difficult at first but you need to liberate yourself or they’ll drive you mad. its tough being somewhere new but these don’t sound like real friends anyway so you lose nothing and gain your sanity back, as well as precious time with your child to do the things you want and time to meet other people.

give yourself a detox from them in the summer holidays, mute the group and social media, and vaguely answer one in 3 messages with a delay because you’re really busy. keep saying no, too busy/already have plans/unavailable sorry what a shame. how you spend your time is nobody elses business, especially not some playground mums. its just a bloody school.

why would not seeing them affect your DD? its your summer holidays. The DC are at school together regardless. If you want DC to see schoolfriends maybe meet those outside the ‘clique’. Your DD won’t suffer for having a bigger group of friends.

sorry read that back and its a bit clipped, didn’t mean it to be.

I’d written a load about other stuff but too identifying, some of them are on MN

I usually leave it mostly to my kids, who they'd like to invite for a sleepover or for a swim or bbq etc. And socialising with other mums sometimes happens with the kids and sometimes without (coffee, lunch, dog walk etc). I don't get into politics though!

@notasportymum you’re right. The children will see each other at school next month, we can just take this time for us and step off the merry go round. I’m certainly going to try.
@AlwaysLatte unfortunately mums of DC two best friends are ‘in the clique’ so no escape- I’ve asked DC repeatedly about seeing other friends but no dice.
I’ve tried to see a bit more of the couple of mums who I see as being similar to me- not wanting to get involved in drama and politics, but it’s early days.

@NCschoolmumssuck yeah this is my issue too - I've asked about playdates for my son with friends but the mums are always too busy or have plans- awkward when you bump into them altogether in the park when they could have invited DS too. He's just going into yr 1 so not looking forward to the next 5 years.

I found this definitely worse in a small school. Toxic, even. It was a massive eye opener. Firmer boundaries and learn to give less of a fuck, it can be difficult but fake it till you make it.

how old is DD? if primary don’t ask, just arrange stuff and tell her. cast a wide net for her. you may find other parents say no because you’re part of ‘that crowd‘ but it fades especially if you avoid the school gossips. for now enjoy the holidays, put yourself first and push it right to the back of your mind.

The best bit of parenting advice I was given was by an HCP when mine were babies. She had 3 happy teenage DDs who were constantly busy, they barely had an evening free and were away just about every weekend. She said the trick to keeping DC on the straight and narrow is activities, activities, activities. and its true, find one they love and that’s all they want to do, school friendships and agenda mum politics can’t compete and the ‘besties’ thing is confined to school. Those 3 are equestrians so she was run ragged (and impoverished) but it could be absolutely anything. Mine have made some fantastic friends doing their activities outside school and school friends do a variety of different stuff, the year group spend barely any time together outside school and it makes no difference to the friendships at all.

At the small cliquey school the happiest girl was a keen cyclist and her mum was never part of the clique, they were much too busy elsewhere to notice or care if they were missing out on anything with the school crowd. Yes there are cliques and insanely pushy parents at activities but they’re a hell of a lot easier to spot and swerve (or wind up with your more talented child )

We have a three class per year school and I have encouraged my daughter to make friends with kids in the other classes and also kids of different ages, through hobbies etc. Sometimes I find my DD’s class cliquey so I expand our horizons a bit