Antisemitism online

[serenada]

Isn't there something we can do? I remember a post on here, years ago, by a mum who was very frightened and her post stood out to me.

It isn't right that the Jewish community have to defend themselves alone here - can't we do something to show support and let people know they are not alone in this?

You only have to go back to some of the corbyn threads on here where debates became heated as to whether or not corbyn is anti Semitic. Jewish posters who felt he was were shouted down by other posters who told them they were wrong. Is it acceptable to tell a black or BAME person something isn’t racist when they say it is? No it’s not, so why is it ok to tell a Jewish person they are wrong?

I don't know what to say @coronabeer23

I hope that the people who left Labour feel they can come back - you can not have a party that excludes one group.

I'm staggered. I just don't understand why anybody would have an issue with Jewish people. I simply don't see a difference at all, so even if I wanted to be racist, I'd need you to point them out!! It's insane. In comparison to me, a christian, jewish people look identical, speak identically, behave identically. As a christian I believe that Jesus was jewish and we have the same God. I just don't understand the problem.

Anti Semitism has always been around in the UK, maybe with social media it's being expressed more.

I live in an area with some large Jewish populations. Synagogues started having people on the door when I was doing ante natal classes so 14 years ago. In an area with a large Jewish population there are swastikas sprayed. Our nearest synagogue hasn't published their address on their website for ages. If you want to go you have to phone up and have a chat then presumably they tell you where and when etc.

We have numerous Guardian reading friends and family who are never done posting positive BLM and pro trans comments but are very quiet on anti semitism. They view being Jewish and Israel as interchangeable.

I read The Guardian. Never knew it was an offence!

One of the problems I see is that too often criticism of Israel is seen as criticism of Jews.

@TinnitusQueen

Yep.

Nah

Antisemites use Israel as a cover for saying nasty things.

@StoneofDestiny

I''m not sure your post is helpful - it's slightly ambiguous.

There you go..........

I wondered how long it would take for someone on this thread to say some version of “I don’t mind Jews, i just have a problem with Israel”

I have a couple of Jewish friends. One probably would not consider herself Jewish as she is an atheist and tends to say her mother is Jewish rather than she is Jewish'. She comes from mainland Europe and her mother is still living there. She told me how her mother was at a party a while back (couple of years ago) and those there not realising she was Jewish said something like 'jews are to blame for X or Y''. She was flabbergasted as she hadn't heard this type of hatred for years.

My other friend doesn't tend to talk much about being Jewish and he too is not religious but for him he sees himself very much as Jewish.

I really don't understand hatred based on religion or race but I have a feeling like racism, anti-Semitism has never really gone away. It seems that people love to hate! If it isn't Jewish people, it's the Muslims or black people. It is sooooooo depressing.

I don't know the answer other than to call it out where you see it.

What's wrong with MN that this thread has relatively so few replies and interest?

The BLM threads were guaranteed hundreds of replies and support for weeks.

My experience with antisemitism is pretty minimal tbh. I went to school with ONE boy who is jewish but I cant think of anyone else I know who is British and jewish. I know a fair few Canadians and Americans though.

I reported the one thread I saw on mn that was antisemitic. It got taken down pretty quickly.

I couldnt understand the whole labour antisemitism thing as I didnt see anything when I was a member (and honestly couldnt imagine anyone on my team thinking like that), but then I read an article with more than 20 examples of incidents and the party's handling (or lack of) and I was genuinely shocked, and suddenly could see their point.

I live in Denmark and when the terrorist went on the rampage in Copenhagen a few years back and ended up at a bar mitzvah I remember reading a comment in an article - something along the lines of Danes were surprised that jews were targetted but the jewish community werent.

I would like to think that if I saw antisemitism I would challenge and/or report. But I just dont see it happening around me.

@contrmary absolutely spot on all the current push on diversity does is tell everyone which preordained little box they need to sit themselves in, we are becoming more divided not less. Try and integrate and get accused of cultural appropriation, try and band common causes together under a wider umbrella and get accused of hijacking someone else’s agenda/misery, never has the term divide and rule been so appropriate.

In order to make the world a better place we need to listen to everyone, share ideas, accept and assimilate the best that each society, culture and person has to offer and not guard our own inner treasure, we should be willing to give as well as receive. If we use the best the world has to offer, accept and share we can use this to elevate us all.

I don't use social media except MNs but I have Jewish friends & also family in France. Loads of Jews have left France because they are scared but it's not often reported by the left who focus more on Islamophobia. I don't get it to be honest.

Agree with @contrmary & @Lifeisgenerallyfun my parents were immigrants & I grew up in London. I didn't know anyone who wasn't a child of an immigrant till I was in my teens. My friends and I are different colours & creeds but none of us get this new thinking of putting us into ever narrowing boxes. It's also invariably a white person who doesn't actually have much exposure to diversity telling you where you are going wrong & being offensive.

@annabel85 unfortunately and depressingly it’s because it’s not a current celebrity endorsed hashtag.

Jews have been the most persecuted people throughout history, exiled from their homes, subject to horrifying atrocities for centuries before the holocaust. They have a lot to be pissed off about. Yet it’s still seems relatively acceptable to make casual derogatory remarks, ignore counties’ persecution of Jews, ignore Judaism in RE, history in schools Except insofar as they are victims. It’s shocking.

@gonshite

That's what I don't understand - there was a time when those communities worked together and you had a strong sense as a child that you could turn to an elder person in any of those communities - there was no them and us. I was taught by two Jewish teachers who had a huge influence on me - I owe them so much. There was no sense that you only supported or lived within your respective community rather that you could have that but also were part of a wider community where you were all from different backgrounds.

Ok so not many responses. Well I would just like to add my pebble to the pile right here to say there is NO difference between Jews Christians atheists etc etc etc ad infinitum.

On the subject ish. Can I recommend a visit to the massively underrated uk holocaust museum. Last year i went and heard a survivor talk there. It was so moving. Their Facebook page gives heads up of upcoming speakers. The survivors are of course dwindling so do go at the earliest opportunity.

Sorry to hijack the thread, I've no vested interests in the museum!

@Lifeisgenerallyfun

Do you think that is because of the Christian heritage of the UK? Is it related to that?

I'm so sorry. Didn't know antisemitism was so 'normal' in UK (I'm Scandi and non-Jewish).

But around the time blm took off, there was a nasty, nasty thread about Rachel riley, anything not blm got removed very quickly on MN or threads deleted (rightly so). I reported the Rachel riley thread, absolutely nothing was done, it's still there. This is the first time I have seriously thought of leaving mn for good. You have my sympathy.

Didn’t suggest for a moment that reading the Guardian is an offence, Stone of Destiny.
I’ve read it for years.
Care to elaborate?

I think that Keith Starmer has made a promising start in tackling anti Semitic views within the Labour Party.

Some of the comments on threads on MN during the general election were horrendous and I reported anti Semitism when I saw it but I think many people in wider society are woefully ignorant.
As PPS say we should be sharing views, ideas and cultures but at the very mention of Jews, many people start talking about Israel and have completely closed minds.
I find the whole cancel culture utterly depressing and wonder where all the enquiring, curious and open minds have gone.

But we need to separate out some of those conflations, don't we? Whether it is Jewish people = Israel or other groups. It is the false conflation and the kind of sloppy thinking that has permeated the air and is not being questioned enough and deconstructed. Once people examine it, they will see that it is erroneous.

Then people will call it out more, I think. How we can do that, I don't know.

Martin Lewis on the Emma Barnett show yesterday made the point that as a British Jew he is constantly asked/ shouted at / held accountable for Palestine.
There is no other religion where private citizens/ regular people are held responsible for the actions of the govt of a country in which they don’t even live.

What to do ?
Hope that people like him, Emma Barnett, Rachel Riley and David Badiel who have a public platform can make some positive change.
Keep pressure on the Labour Party to make the genuine progress that Keir Starmer is promising.

@serenada yes we all felt like/feel like we have lots in common. It's weird.